Rubber Boat in Blisworth tunnel

[Naughty Cal]

Never known a forum like this one...

The door is over there sir if you dont like it...........

 

You can leave of your own free will.

[ditchcrawler]

Never known a forum like this one...

Good intit

[Dave Payne]

That i can...

 

However i thought i may stick around a while longer yet, as there are some friendly helpful people on here

[Dave_P]

Nice isn't it Mr P? A humourous comment about the Darwin Awards is met by being accused of being a tosser, simply because someone has the temerity to disagree with them?

 

Fortunately I am happily say that I've never seen a small inflatable, canoe or other-wise unpowered craft in a long tunnel which is either an amazing coincidence or an indication that most people agree it is dangerous.

 

I suspect one of two people on here have pretty large RIBs which are quite a different matter (although still bringing their own dangers) to the craft that the OP was talking about.

 

As a re-cap, I joined this thread because someone was using a terrible comparison to justify their point of view and in doing so insulted another forum member who had simply express theirs. I don't like that kind of thing. It's nasty and unnecessary.

 

Have a lovely day now everyone, I'm off to practise being an asshole and engage in some frenetic tossing! ;-)

[RLWP]

That i can...

 

However i thought i may stick around a while longer yet, as there are some friendly helpful people on here

 

You'll begin to understand the usual forum response to this - which is 'Deckchairs, Popcorn anyone?'

 

Settling in to watch a good rolling spat is always fun, NC is great entertainment. Short on technique, long on stamina

 

Pass the crisps, would you?

 

Richard

[saltysplash]

Providing you have a decent tunnel light, spotting a (normally brightly coloured) dinghy in a tunnel is easy. you often see debris logs etc way before you hit them so it wouldnt be a problem slowing down and stopping and fending them off down your side with a pole.

 

Make sure theres no sharp edges or splinters in the end of your pole while fending off the rubber boat......can anyone hear a hissing noise?

[Dave Payne]

I am all for debate, but lowering tones to that of my teenage kids at home doesnt really feel right on an adult forum!

[RLWP]

I am all for debate, but lowering tones to that of my teenage kids at home doesnt really feel right on an adult forum!

 

Oh, we can do worse than that! Best bet is to not get involved, it's all a part of the vibrant life of the forum.

 

Erm - crisps?

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

And has already been pointed out in this topic there is no byelaw refraining unpowered vessels from entering tunnels.

 

 

When you apply for and take out a CRT licence, then you sign to say you agree to their terms and conditions, even if they say more than the relevant bye-laws do.

 

What the T&Cs actually say is....

 

6) Unpowered Boats may not navigate certain tunnels.

Check the list at www.canalrivertrust.org.uk/tunnels-unpowered-boats or contact customer services

Where you are permitted to navigate, we encourage the following precautions:

(a) navigate in groups of between three and six boats, at least one of which must be navigated by an experienced person.

( everyone should be able to swim, should wear a life jacket, and have a waterproof torch and whistle attached to them.

© the boats must have adequate buoyancy.

(d) you must display a securely fixed, bright white light showing forward.

 

As the long Grand Union tunnels, including Blisworth do not appear on the list of permitted tunnels, you cannot take a canoe or rowing boat through without breaching licence terms and conditions.

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

When you apply for and take out a CRT licence, then you sign to say you agree to their terms and conditions, even if they say more than the relevant bye-laws do.

 

What the T&Cs actually say is....

 

As the long Grand Union tunnels, including Blisworth do not appear on the list of permitted tunnels, you cannot take a canoe or rowing boat through without breaching licence terms and conditions.

 

They probably didn't have a CaRT licence so they would be OK on that one.

[alan_fincher]

They probably didn't have a CaRT licence so they would be OK on that one.

 

Why did I just know someone was bound to say something like that!

 

Being serious (if still possible!) I think it is probably the case that some canoeists are not directly licensed for their own craft, but by being members of the BCU, they have the right to use CRT waterways, (I hope I'm remembering right, but, as ever, am happy to be corrected if not).

 

I would assume the deal there to be that those canoeists making use of this must agree to comply to normal licensing T&Cs, and hence should still comply with anything those T&Cs lay down about use of such craft in tunnels.

[DaveC]

There used to be a sign at the entrance to the Bruce tunnel saying "Canoes Prohibited" despite the fact that every easter the Devizes to Westminster race goes through. When I worked for BWB I had to (on the day before Good Friday) go through the tunnel with a Flat to make sure there was no floating obstruction. (BWB didn't supply a life jacket and the means of propulsion was the chain about four feet above the water, which is mostly still there.) Of course in those days many canoes were canvas covered, something of a rarity these days I think.

 

Not sure when the signs were removed but they are not there now.

 

 

Dave

[ditchcrawler]

 

Why did I just know someone was bound to say something like that!

 

Being serious (if still possible!) I think it is probably the case that some canoeists are not directly licensed for their own craft, but by being members of the BCU, they have the right to use CRT waterways, (I hope I'm remembering right, but, as ever, am happy to be corrected if not).

 

I would assume the deal there to be that those canoeists making use of this must agree to comply to normal licensing T&Cs, and hence should still comply with anything those T&Cs lay down about use of such craft in tunnels.

As they were inflatable canoe I will go with the bare bones of my statement about a licence

[alan_fincher]

As they were inflatable canoe I will go with the bare bones of my statement about a licence

 

Another way of looking at it.....

 

1) If they have their own personal un-powered craft licence they should not be there, because their licence conditions forbid it.

 

2) If they are licensed because (for example) they a BCU members, and BCU have an arrangement with CRT, then they should still not be there, because their licence conditions still forbid it.

 

3) If they are unlicensed, (by any arrangement), then they should not be there, because they should not be on CRT waters without a licence.

 

So I simply rest my case that they have no right to be in the tunnel with an un-powered boat, whichever of the above categories they happen to fall into.

 

I was simply disagreeing with those who say there is nothing that should stop them being there - that is all!

 

[blackrose]

On a more serious note nobody has yet to produce any supporting legislation that makes those historic signs enforceable, much like this one in a Northamptonshire village that, though still on display has no force of law due to its supporting legislation being repealed in 1930.

 

Does every request or requirement really need to be backed up by legislation? If I see a sign saying "Please Keep off the Grass" I don't deliberately walk on the grass because I think that request isn't enforceable by law. Likewise I don't think there's any law which prohibits me from farting loudly as I walk past someone else's table in a restaurant, or any law which states that I must shut lock gates after I take my boat through, or even close the paddles? Perhaps there are laws for thes things, I don't know...

 

The point is, I behave in a reasonable way because I'm a reasonable person. Some things we do are based on a level of civility and a willingness to behave as requested, rather than facing a penalty if we don't follow the rule. I can't help feeling we would live in an even more bureaucratic and greyer world if every single thing we did or didn't do needed laws surrounding them. I'd rather people behaved as requested because they want society to function well, not simply because they fear prosecution.

Edited November 13, 2013 by blackrose

[FadeToScarlet]

Does every request or requirement really need to be backed up by legislation? If I see a sign saying "Please Keep off the Grass" I don't deliberately walk on the grass because I think that request isn't enforceable by law. Likewise I don't think there's any law which prohibits me from farting loudly as I walk past someone else's table in a restaurant, or any law which states that I must shut lock gates after I take my boat through, or even close the paddles? Perhaps there are laws for thes things, I don't know...

 

The point is, I behave in a reasonable way because I'm a reasonable person. Some things we do are based on a level of civility and a willingness to behave as requested, rather than facing a penalty if we don't follow the rule. I can't help feeling we would live in an even more bureaucratic and greyer world if every single thing we did or didn't do needed laws surrounding them. I'd rather people behaved as requested because they want society to function well, not simply because they fear prosecution.

Or even applied common sense and a sense of self preservation. There's no way you'd get me on a canoe into a tunnel, regardless of the number of lights etc. I don't think it's safe, even without other boats around- having capsized kayaks through incompetence on more than one occasion!

[Simon clarke]

As a slight aside I noticed a sign at the south entrance to Braunston tunnel stating "No Canoeists". Although I was piloting a narrow boat at the time I am also a canoeist and was technically breaking the rule

Does this mean kayaks are allowed? I'm a kayaker.

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

When you apply for and take out a CRT licence, then you sign to say you agree to their terms and conditions, even if they say more than the relevant bye-laws do.

 

What the T&Cs actually say is....

As the long Grand Union tunnels, including Blisworth do not appear on the list of permitted tunnels, you cannot take a canoe or rowing boat through without breaching licence terms and conditions.

However a powered dinghy may navigate them.

Nice isn't it Mr P? A humourous comment about the Darwin Awards is met by being accused of being a tosser, simply because someone has the temerity to disagree with them?

 

Fortunately I am happily say that I've never seen a small inflatable, canoe or other-wise unpowered craft in a long tunnel which is either an amazing coincidence or an indication that most people agree it is dangerous.

 

I suspect one of two people on here have pretty large RIBs which are quite a different matter (although still bringing their own dangers) to the craft that the OP was talking about.

 

As a re-cap, I joined this thread because someone was using a terrible comparison to justify their point of view and in doing so insulted another forum member who had simply express theirs. I don't like that kind of thing. It's nasty and unnecessary.

 

Have a lovely day now everyone, I'm off to practise being an asshole and engage in some frenetic tossing! ;-)

Our "pretty large RIB" is 2.4m so hardly pretty large at all.

 

Funnily enough it didn't sink or kill us when we were struck through the sheet incompetence of a narrowboater:)

[Dave_P]

Being involved in a potential dangerous situation and not being killed is not an indication that it wasn't potentially dangerous.

 

For example: this man http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8648011.stm did not sink or die...

[alan_fincher]

However a powered dinghy may navigate them.

Yes, but, as I'm sure you can see, I was responding to posts saying there was nothing that prevents you from taking an un-powered boat through.

 

AFAIK, if properly licensed, any powered boat can go through if it complies with the relevant regulations, (which would include displaying a white light to the front in tunnels over over 1/4 mile).

 

We used to do it in a very low-slung plywood cabin cruiser, although I think general standards of people navigating tunnels has deteriorated quit a bit since I did that 40 years ago. I'm not sure I'd still be keen too, but it is indeed allowed.

 

At least if you are in a small powered dinghy and you spot a right idiot in a bloody great steel boat, you have some chance of U-turning, and "legging", (not literally!), it away from them back in the direction you have just come from!

[Naughty Cal]

Yes, but, as I'm sure you can see, I was responding to posts saying there was nothing that prevents you from taking an un-powered boat through.

 

AFAIK, if properly licensed, any powered boat can go through if it complies with the relevant regulations, (which would include displaying a white light to the front in tunnels over over 1/4 mile).

 

We used to do it in a very low-slung plywood cabin cruiser, although I think general standards of people navigating tunnels has deteriorated quit a bit since I did that 40 years ago. I'm not sure I'd still be keen too, but it is indeed allowed.

 

At least if you are in a small powered dinghy and you spot a right idiot in a bloody great steel boat, you have some chance of U-turning, and "legging", (not literally!), it away from them back in the direction you have just come from!

So you think we are fine going through with our dinghy if the outboard is running but if we are rowing the same dinghy we are unsafe?

[alan_fincher]

So you think we are fine going through with our dinghy if the outboard is running but if we are rowing the same dinghy we are unsafe?

Where have I said I think you are fine going through with your dinghy? I'm talking strictly about ewhether it is permitted, not the sanity of doing so!

 

What I have said is that as far as I can see, if you have an outboard on it, and a light, and that it is licensed, then you are allowed to, but that if it has no motor you are not.

 

I would not personally consider going through the major GU tunnels in a powered dinghy these days, even if it's allowed to do so. Your choice!

[Naughty Cal]

Where have I said I think you are fine going through with your dinghy? I'm talking strictly about ewhether it is permitted, not the sanity of doing so!

 

What I have said is that as far as I can see, if you have an outboard on it, and a light, and that it is licensed, then you are allowed to, but that if it has no motor you are not.

 

I would not personally consider going through the major GU tunnels in a powered dinghy these days, even if it's allowed to do so. Your choice!

My lisenced and insured small dinghy has as much right to be on the canal as any other vessel and that includes in locks and tunnels.

[alan_fincher]

My lisenced and insured small dinghy has as much right to be on the canal as any other vessel and that includes in locks and tunnels.

Where have I suggested otherwise?