Baffled by CART moorings procedure

[Athy]

As an exercise, I have recently been investigating CART long term moorings. I identified an area where two were available - one 15 metres long, the other 16.5 metres. I know the mooring site quite well, and e-mailed the lady at CART who is responsible for that area. My query was simple: exacly where in this (approximately 100 yards long) stretch of moorings are these spaces?

 

The answer astounded me. It seems that in a CART auction one bids for a berth somewhere in the stretch of moorings, not for a specific space. This is ludicrous: if I was buying a house in Acacia Avenue, I would wish to know whether I was getting no. 57 or no. 103 before making an offer. Ah, said the lady, moorers are free to shuffle around within the stretch of moorings as long as they occupy the correct length of water. Is this true? If so, who decides on these movements? The longest-established senior moorers? The pushiest ones?

 

What's more, if CART don't allocate exact spaces, how can they tell me that these auctions are for a 15 metre space and a 16.5 metre space? Surely they could equally well be for a 20 metre space and an 11.5 metre space.

 

Enlightenment would be appreciated.

[Arthur Marshall]

Seems a bit odd. If moorers are OK to shuffle about while occupying their "rented" bit of water, they could leave big enough gaps so that there wouldn't actually be room for a returning boat to get in. I would try to speak to someone else at CART and also someone else actually on the mooring.

[OldGoat]

I don't really know as I'm a furriner to the ditchy bits.

But certainly on the Oxenford many LTMs have boat names on each mooring (provided by the "owners"). On at least one stretch the moorings are monitored by a resident "bailiff" - usually a volunteer and I suspect that the actual location is performed by negotiation.

 

You're correct, CaRT office should know, but it's probably a young lass sitting behind a screen without any real knowledge of the locality or boats, and anyway you shouldn't translate bricks and mortar onto the canals.

 

BW bought some awful software that's hugely expensive and totally inflexible, so I suspect it couldn't cope with the niceties of moorings....

[Guest]

In practice (at least on ours anyway) people stick to the 'allocated' space.

 

When we won the mooring the moorings manager could tell me the names of the boats that were either side of it.

 

Plus ours is made up of boats and moorings of various lengths so if somebody jumped in our space with a much shorter boat it would leave me unable to fit anywhere else (we are one of the longest boats on our LTM)

 

Plus a few have erected small sheds or storage boxes (allowed on our moorings with the MM say so) so if people started switching about they would have to move that too.

Edited October 22, 2013 by The Dog House

[lexicon]

fairly common practice i believe.

certainly at our moorings people moved around as was needed and works well to let people feel safe the boats are looked after etc.

[Proper Job]

That's the way it is.

 

It should give them the flexibility to make up larger moorings from little bits left over on a given length of mooring.

[Athy]

A typical CWF response - more or less equally divided between widely divergent points of view. Thanks to all who have replied so far.

PJ, fair point - but how on earth can they expect people to place a bid when they don't know what they are bidding for? That is just crazy.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

it has always been the way with bwb linear moorings and has lead to some disgruntlement when you tidy up your mooring go cruising and return to find somebody has moved into 'your' space.

[John Williamson 1955]

A typical CWF response - more or less equally divided between widely divergent points of view. Thanks to all who have replied so far.

PJ, fair point - but how on earth can they expect people to place a bid when they don't know what they are bidding for? That is just crazy.

You do know what you are bidding for. You are bidding for the right to moor within a certain length of bank and use other moorings such as visitor moorings as required. It's not just leisure moorings that work this way either, the residential moorings I'm on don't have a single one of the recently arrived boats on the "right" space according to the CRT paperwork. I'm on the berth I'm on because none of the larger boats can get in, due to a large lump of concrete restricting the available draught to a couple of feet. We've sorted it all out amicably, and told the Moorings Manager, so everyone's happy. Even the postman doesn't seem to have problems delivering the bills.

 

I'd not be too sure about your analogy with buying 57 Acacia Avenue, it's more like booking a parking space near your office. You know which car park you'll be in, but very rarely which bay.

 

Bye!

 

John.

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

That is the way it is. We moor at the top of Hatton, but have been there longer than the bid system so how we got it was slightly different.

 

We pay for a 70ft space somewhere in that length. When we first got there we were about 1/2 way down. However as people moved in and out we've moved up nearer to the car space as that suits us better, and the others prefer to be further along as it's us people hit when leaving the water point if they get it wrong.

 

We do have our boat name next to our spot, but apparently this is not enforceable. We did return once to find our space occupied. I rang the moorings office to find out if we could move them and was told we pay for a space on that stretch, and had no authority to ask them to move from "our" spot.

 

Wasn't a problem in the end as they were there only temporarily, but if the sign for long term moorings hadn't disappeared years ago (and they won't put it back) we wouldn't have had that problem.

 

Sue

[Guest]

That is the way it is. We moor at the top of Hatton, but have been there longer than the bid system so how we got it was slightly different.

 

We pay for a 70ft space somewhere in that length. When we first got there we were about 1/2 way down. However as people moved in and out we've moved up nearer to the car space as that suits us better, and the others prefer to be further along as it's us people hit when leaving the water point if they get it wrong.

 

We do have our boat name next to our spot, but apparently this is not enforceable. We did return once to find our space occupied. I rang the moorings office to find out if we could move them and was told we pay for a space on that stretch, and had no authority to ask them to move from "our" spot.

 

Wasn't a problem in the end as they were there only temporarily, but if the sign for long term moorings hadn't disappeared years ago (and they won't put it back) we wouldn't have had that problem.

 

Sue

 

Funny enough we are near one of the water points on our LTM but the other moorers are generally quite considerate (and there isn't an actual space set aside for it so would have to moor alongside other boats) they actually use greatly extended hoses to reach the points rather than move their boats to the water point.

 

Our LTM site is also right next to a very nice visitor mooring so I think this (along with the sign-age which thankfully is still there) means we tend not to get any squatters. If they did moor though I can't see them being there long because you can't get in or out of our site without a 'bespoke' key which is one of the reasons we really like it where we are.

Edited October 22, 2013 by The Dog House

[Athy]

It's not just leisure moorings that work this way either, the residential moorings I'm on don't have a single one of the recently arrived boats on the "right" space according to the CRT paperwork.

John.

Thus, you confirm that there is CART paperwork which establishes which spaces the boats should occupy - which was my point in the first place. Thank you.

[Dave_P]

On my moorings, we moor end-on to a communal ponton with all the boats rafted up side by side. We don't have seem to have an official order either, we generally just agree on what works best for everyone. For example, I had a trip boat on the mooring next to me for a while, coming and going on a daily basis and often arriving back late at night. Simple, we just swapped it round with an empty boat.

[system 4-50]

The actual location within my LTM is quite important as half of it is on a bend. I think people on the bend should pay less than people on the straight. I'm on the bend and I hate it.

[Laurie Booth]

A typical CWF response - more or less equally divided between widely divergent points of view. Thanks to all who have replied so far.

PJ, fair point - but how on earth can they expect people to place a bid when they don't know what they are bidding for? That is just crazy.

You are bidding for a space anywhere on that section. Quite normal in all the marinas I have been in.

[alan_fincher]

You are bidding for a space anywhere on that section. Quite normal in all the marinas I have been in.

Actually i think many marinas are more likely to exercise their right to move you around for operational reasons than CRT are on a typical long term tow-path mooring.

 

I understand that at most CRT tow-path sites the permit doesn't allocate you a specific length named to you, but in most of the many I know about, that is what actually happens in practice. In some ways it makes sense. If a 50 foot boat can come back and choose to reallocate himself to the 70 foot space left for the moment by someone else who has gone boating, there is no guarantee any 70 foot space will be available when the longer boat gets back. Meanwhile 20 foot of space is potentially lost.

 

So I would expect periodic small shuffles to maximise space, but generally not a free for all. Generally both CRT and permanent moorers at the sites are pretty sensible and pragmatic about it.

 

(On the GU where I have bid for, (or considered bidding for) a length of towpath mooring, in each case it has been indicated to me which particular length I would end up on, though!)

[Machpoint005]

The principle seems to work OK on marina moorings managed by CaRT. There were spaces on ours when we returned afte ten weeks, so we moved to a better pontoon, with the agreement of all neighbours concerned. In fact, it was our former next-neighbour's suggestion.

[Dharl]

Just a quick question...are the CaRT LTMs on the Tow path side (and therefore marked with a suitable sign so the CC's and 'tourists' like me in our hire boats don't park there ;-) ? ) or are they on the Off-bank side? (is Off-side the correct term for bank opposite the Tow path side?)

 

As a slight offside when passing Bathampton this year, just before reaching the water-point by the bridge by The George, I spied a nice spot to moor up for lunch. Just as I was coming alongside I spied some small signs saying "Private Moorings" so started to pull out again to move on, just as I did an irate women came out of her balcony from her house by this berth and shouted at me that it was a Private Mooring (as I was already moving off she was a bit late..) We found a spot just by the pub which suited us better .

 

However a few days later on in Bristol was talking to a guy who ran the ferries and used to live on his NB who said that he had problems with that house and lady in the past and it was an unofficial private mooring. Signs she had just put up so no one moored in front of her house and spoiled the view!

[Proper Job]

The actual location within my LTM is quite important as half of it is on a bend. I think people on the bend should pay less than people on the straight. I'm on the bend and I hate it.

Move to a straight bit as soon as someone leaves a gap?

[Guest]

Just a quick question...are the CaRT LTMs on the Tow path side (and therefore marked with a suitable sign so the CC's and 'tourists' like me in our hire boats don't park there ;-) ? ) or are they on the Off-bank side? (is Off-side the correct term for bank opposite the Tow path side?)

 

They can be on either and are normally marked. - ours are on the offside.

 

Sometimes it's not always clear where they start and end though especially if somebody has remove any of the sign-age.

Edited October 22, 2013 by The Dog House

[dor]

 

 

Just a quick question...are the CaRT LTMs on the Tow path side (and therefore marked with a suitable sign so the CC's and 'tourists' like me in our hire boats don't park there ;-) ? ) or are they on the Off-bank side? (is Off-side the correct term for bank opposite the Tow path side?)

Both. When they are on the towpath side there are signs to indicate they are LTMs, however the signs are often quite small and easily missed which is why for example visiting boats often moor up on the LTMs south of the Aqueduct at Nantwich.

 

Going back to the OPs point, on my C&RT LTM (offside) we manage well with everyone using their allocated spot. If there are any rearrangements it is done with agreement of other moorers and the mooring manager is notified. However C&RT do reserve the right to move you, and your contract is only for a specific length of mooring within the site rather than a specific location. The moorings are quite well spread out, but they are not full so there is no pressure to bunch up. However C&RT could make us do this if they wanted to (although I did make a case once that space is needed to get dinghies through (needed for access).

[Dharl]

many thanks Martin

[sueb]

Cart could be doing you a favour as if you had a set piece of bank you may be charged council tax.

[LEO]

Hi,

At the CaRT, LTM site I am at, moorers get an allocated spot - once they have moved in and got a couple of sheds up and established a garden nothing shifts them - except deadmen's shoe syndrome, crazy situation, seemingly endorsed by CaRT.

 

Other sites seem to have a map showing where the mooring vacancy is.

 

L

[Duchess Omnium]

It is definitely the case, as others have said, that the mooring you are bidding on is simply a length anywhere in that section. Also, it has nothing to do with the length of your boat -- it is the length CART reckons it has available. In practice, as soon as a mooring becomes available any local boats unhappy with their mooring shuffle around to choose the most desirable spots, leaving the newcomer with what is left. In theory anyone can take any spot if a boat goes away cruising, but no one would advise it in practice, as that kind of thing makes neighbours really, really mad. As Leo says, people set up gardens, sheds, etc (though that is always unofficial). Anyway, the idea is the new boat ought to get the worst spot, even if the new boat is paying more than anyone else...

 

After 3 years you pay for the length of the boat, not for the length of mooring, but you still officially have no designated spot.

 

Also "moorings managers" are being phased out.