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mooring dilemma


ping pong pome

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it made me wonder if he could only sell the boat if he sold it with a mooring.ie:he paid for the mooring and sold the boat on it.

Generally CRT do not allow you to transfer a mooring to a new owner when you sell a boat.

 

There are some sites where that is not the case, but it is very much an unusual exception.

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"Berth sitting" a CART mooring is completely acceptable and legal, as long as the official moorer agrees and CART is informed. The "owner" of the mooring continues to pay the mooring fee and the sitter makes private arrangements with the official moorer. When I was having trouble finding my own mooring I did this for nearly two years. Now and again enforcement officers knocked on my window and asked why with a CC licence I was on a permanent mooring site, but when I explained and they checked all was well.

 

It makes sense, because a boat on a long cruise isn't effectively taking up two spaces -- its home mooring and visitor moorings while it cruises. And people like me in crowded areas get a place to stay without bridge hopping while they sort out permanent moorings. Win win. (I did wonder about the arrangement when I thought my friend would never come home and I would nevr find my own mooring, but I did and she came home, and it all made sense).

 

As for auctions, what Alan says it correct. The price you bid is fixed for 3 years and then you get to renew at the "local" rate, which is usually less, but could be more than you bid. In the meantime, nothing stops you from bidding on another mooring in the same spot, just in case it comes out cheaper (taking into account your notice period, when you will be paying for 2 moorings, and the fact that the clock will start again ticking off the 3 years before you will be paying the advertised price). So that may be why the guy beat you ofr his own mooring -- it wasn't his; but he was bidding on a mooring in the same place. I hope this is clear...

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Have a look at the ended auctions on the canal and river trust web site and you can see what the mooring you bid on went for, which might help you for the future.

 

Not necessary - the email you get when you lose an auction details the winning bid, as well as confirming details of your losing bid...

 

 

Dear xxx,

 

The vacancy for xxx Moorings, xxx Canal, reference number xxxx has ended. The highest bid submitted for this vacancy was £m,mmm

 

You submitted a bid of £n,nnn on dd/mm/yyyy hh:mm for this vacancy.

The details of all prices bid for this mooring vacancy can now be viewed on the website.

 

Thank you for taking part in this auction process.

 

Canal & River Trust Mooring Vacancies

 

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"Berth sitting" a CART mooring is completely acceptable and legal, as long as the official moorer agrees and CART is informed. The "owner" of the mooring continues to pay the mooring fee and the sitter makes private arrangements with the official moorer.

 

This is not my experience at all. This is an email exchange between me and my local mooring manager last year:

 

"Dear xxx,

 

I currently have a permanent mooring in Gas Street Basin. I am going

to be away from my mooring for a few months from september onwards.

There are a couple of people who would like to use my mooring from

time to time while I am away. Is this ok? I'm not sure what the BW

rules on this are and I'd like to do things 'by-the-book'.

 

Regards,

 

Dave"

 

 

"Hi Dave

 

Strictly speaking you cannot sub-let whether for reward or otherwise.

The problem will occur when our Boat Checkers flag up that there is an unauthorised craft on the mooring and this will be passed onto the Enforcement Team.

 

Sorry but I am unable to give this my blessing.

Many thanks for asking.

 

Kind Regards

xxx"

 

I then replied with:

 

"Being really quite surprised by your response, I have a read through of BW's Long Term Moorings - Terms and Conditions (attached). Section 3 of the General Conditions states:

 

"The Mooring agreement is personal to you and you may not assign it to any person. You may allow another person to use the Mooring for short periods but only with our permission which shall not be unreasonably withheld."

 

This is what I'm planning to do and I have sought your permission. Could you explain why this section does not apply in my case? What is your reason for withholding permission?"

 

After some arguing, I was told I could let someone stay on my mooring for a maximum of a week and no 'private arrangements' could be endorsed.

 

Seems like, yet again, CaRT/BW are being inconsistant across different areas.

 

 

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What may not be apparent to a newcomer, as well, is that the price you bid in an auction is the price you actually pay - no discounts can be claimed on top. But when a three year contract ends, and you are offered standard terms, although that will be at current "guide", you also have the option of paying year in advance, (assuming you can afford it!),which attracts a 10% discount.

 

Anyone paying "year in advance" on a standard annual contract is therefore paying the same as someone who has just won an auction on an identical mooring at "reserve", assuming that is set at the usual 90%.

 

 

I have just moved to a CRT mooring for the first time, having always preferred the security of a marina in the past, so the above is good news to me.

But it throws into confusion any explanation of the OP's tale! Presumably there are too many unknown factors.

 

What is the rate of inflation of CRT Guide Prices? I have paid no attention over the years. Rough idea, anyone?

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This is not my experience at all. This is an email exchange between me and my local mooring manager last year:

 

"Dear xxx,

 

I currently have a permanent mooring in Gas Street Basin. I am going

to be away from my mooring for a few months from september onwards.

There are a couple of people who would like to use my mooring from

time to time while I am away. Is this ok? I'm not sure what the BW

rules on this are and I'd like to do things 'by-the-book'.

 

Regards,

 

Dave"

 

 

"Hi Dave

 

Strictly speaking you cannot sub-let whether for reward or otherwise.

The problem will occur when our Boat Checkers flag up that there is an unauthorised craft on the mooring and this will be passed onto the Enforcement Team.

 

Sorry but I am unable to give this my blessing.

Many thanks for asking.

 

Kind Regards

xxx"

 

I then replied with:

 

"Being really quite surprised by your response, I have a read through of BW's Long Term Moorings - Terms and Conditions (attached). Section 3 of the General Conditions states:

 

"The Mooring agreement is personal to you and you may not assign it to any person. You may allow another person to use the Mooring for short periods but only with our permission which shall not be unreasonably withheld."

 

This is what I'm planning to do and I have sought your permission. Could you explain why this section does not apply in my case? What is your reason for withholding permission?"

 

After some arguing, I was told I could let someone stay on my mooring for a maximum of a week and no 'private arrangements' could be endorsed.

 

Seems like, yet again, CaRT/BW are being inconsistant across different areas.

 

 

 

I went cruising for six months this year - my mooring manager was happy for a local cc'er to sit in my mooring as long as no money changed hands and it was made clear that they had no right to stay on the mooring if CRT or I wanted it back. All he wanted was the index number to pass onto the enforcement team to ensure they didn't hassle them; 'short period' seemed to max out at 3 months, but we had no problems in rolling the arrangement over...

 

Dave

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I want to buy a boat

 

Correct me if I'm wrong , but are you not supposed to have a boat before you can get a mooring ?

 

No.

 

Actually BW used to advise against buying a boat before securing a mooring. Since then we have had the marina explosion so it's probably not the issue it used to be but there are certain canals, the Lancaster springs to mind, where securing a berth first would be a very good idea.

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Hi, Dave_P, Well my experience was more than 2.5 years ago, but my friend went on to allow another person to "berth sit" after me for another year. I think she was gone altogether more than 3 years, and I was on her mooring for almost two years.

 

I was several times questioned by moorings enforcement officers, but each time was able to refer them to written permission we had from BW (precisely under the section you quote) and every time they went away happy, because " berth sitting" is okay. I was always astonished that they let me stay so long, but it was all agreed and legal and I wasn't going to argue!

 

I guess CART are now reinterpreting the rules and defining "short period" very tightly. But a week seems to me unreasonably short.

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I want to buy a boat

 

Correct me if I'm wrong , but are you not supposed to have a boat before you can get a mooring ?

We got the mooring before we got the boat. We were advised to. Around Milton Keynes there arent many marinas. We couldn't find a 70ft mooring especially not a residential one. They are as rare as hen's teeth.

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Hi, Dave_P, Well my experience was more than 2.5 years ago, but my friend went on to allow another person to "berth sit" after me for another year. I think she was gone altogether more than 3 years, and I was on her mooring for almost two years.

 

I was several times questioned by moorings enforcement officers, but each time was able to refer them to written permission we had from BW (precisely under the section you quote) and every time they went away happy, because " berth sitting" is okay. I was always astonished that they let me stay so long, but it was all agreed and legal and I wasn't going to argue!

 

I guess CART are now reinterpreting the rules and defining "short period" very tightly. But a week seems to me unreasonably short.

I don't think CaRT are doing anything.

 

I think individual mooring managers are interpreting the rules according to which side of the bed they got out of that morning.

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