Blacking on the Thames

[Leo No2]

My boat (launched late 2007) came out of the water in the Stoke Bruerne area this morning and I have been down to look at it. This is the third backing of its life - the first one being delayed by Basingstoke issues with the Deepcut flight. Anodes are fine, no pitting but bubbles of blacking, with water in the bubble behind the blacking, below the waterline on both sides. I have always moored it the same way round, in the same place, and it has a galvanic isolator.

 

It seems, from experience and advice I have received that the blacking on the Thames (Laleham Reach) was only one coat (paid for two - three if it dried quickly) and that it either went on before the boat was thoroughly dried or the boat went back in the water before the blacking was dry.

 

Luckily no damage done at all but it seems as if the boatyard I used slightly more than two years ago wasn't as honest as I was lead to believe. I did go and look at it when it was first out of the water to check myself for anode degradation and pitting (none then either) but when I went back to collect it it was back in the water and I am not sure how I would have detected the fact that only one coat (apparently) was applied.

 

I suppose it just shows that having the boat out of the water regularly (two-yearly seems about right to me) is no bad thing and part of the responsibilities of owning a boat. I am disappointed that what I trusted the firm on the Thames to do clearly wasn't done to the standard and specification we agreed.

[Mike Tee]

Saw it peeping out the back of the dock as I came past!

[Ray T]

From my experience it pays to personally watch what the yard is doing, if possible.

 

As mentioned on another thread I trusted a yard to change my stern gland packing. They didn't, just forced new on top of the old.

They were also instructed to add another battery, they did but didn't connect the battery up, nor the inverter.

 

Also I asked them to fit new engine mounts. Like you I trusted this yard, but 13 months later when 2 collapsed I discovered they had fitted 2nd hand ones from the hireboat fleet they run.

 

Unfortunately with boat yards there appears to be no written warranties, with some yards I haven't even been offered a receipt unless I asked for it.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Ray T

[OldGoat]

From my experience this year, quotations for blacking on the Thames were twice the cost of having the job done on the canals - including the cost of getting it there......

[Leo No2]

From my experience this year, quotations for blacking on the Thames were twice the cost of having the job done on the canals - including the cost of getting it there......

£500 for a 60' Narrowboat on the Thames (Laleham area) and about £700 on the GU in the Stoke Bruerne area are the two quotes I have received but the important thing is to know what you are being quoted for and then the ultimate question is did you get what was specified! The Thames seems a lot cheaper BUT I wonder if that was just to secure the business. If you are on the Wey there are really only a small number of choices - 1) Pyrford Marina (choice of DIY and done for you), 2) TLC at Parvis Bridge on the Wey - in my opinion very good BUT limited to 50' by the National Trust fence, 3) Laleham (of which I have spoken!) and 4) Eel Pie island (just below Teddington) which here-say suggests very good but I don't personally know of anyone who has been there.

[alan_fincher]

I did go and look at it when it was first out of the water to check myself for anode degradation and pitting (none then either) but when I went back to collect it it was back in the water and I am not sure how I would have detected the fact that only one coat (apparently) was applied.

 

How long do you believe it was out of the water in total?

 

if you actually read the technical blurb on a typical bitumen based blacking, it will usually not only say that there should be a minimum of 24 hours between coats, but often that it should be 48 hours, not 24 hours, before a boat is put back in.

 

So a minimum of 4 or 5 days out to really comply with what the blacking manufacturers suggest, if doing at least two full coats.

 

To anywhere that operates just a single slipway or dry dock "time is money" so there is an obvious temptation to do it all faster than that, which (in my view) can compromise the longevity of the resulting work.

 

For places not working weekends you might hope they finished blacking on a Friday, but only put the boat back in on Monday - that would be ideal if they did, but I have seldom got that lucky.

 

But of course some make more money by offering weekend DIY slots. This means the boats they black are probably not ready to go back in when they do, and, frankly, anyone attempting to do a DIY when the boat comes out on a Friday evening, and goes back on a Monday morning, hasn't got the best chances of a really enduring job either.

[Leo No2]

How long do you believe it was out of the water in total?

I delivered it on a Sunday morning and I suspect it came out Monday morning (it was definitely out on the Monday afternoon). It was certainly sitting in the water the following Sunday morning when I went to collect it but I suspect, with hindsight, it probably went back in on the Friday afternoon. It looked fine but until it came out again there was no indication that there had been, what I now suspect, was a shortcut job.

 

I think I was a little 'green' with him but I did go on recommendation from other Wey based boaters but I think that was about the time that we think he started to cut corners. I don't think anyone on the Wey will go there now unless they are given Hobson's choice.

 

Where it is now it was out this morning (Monday) and pressure washed, first coat I understand on Wednesday and second on Friday and back in the water on Monday morning. That seems a better way to do it to me.

[alan_fincher]

Where it is now it was out this morning (Monday) and pressure washed, first coat I understand on Wednesday and second on Friday and back in the water on Monday morning. That seems a better way to do it to me.

Yes,

 

Ideal, if that is what is done.

 

Maybe I have just seen places where it all happens too quickly, but I think those kind of drying time allowances are by no means standard.

[WJM]

I am disappointed that what I trusted the firm on the Thames to do clearly wasn't done to the standard and specification we agreed.

 

I have had my boat blacked three times now (2 year intervals) with a Laleham based boatyard, quite possibly the same place as you. The last blacking it came out on a Monday and was back in the water on the Thursday which does sound a bit too quick. But that said, prior to every blacking I have a full hull survey done by an independent surveyor and each time the steel has shown no signs of thinning or pitting.

[OldGoat]

My boat has Comastic - which is unusual on the Thames (so I'm told...).

Laleham didn't want to know (nasty smelly stuff etc)

Shepperton didn't bother to reply (asked twice)

T&K - their contractor - wanted £3,000

 

So I went back to Teddesley for less than half the price. They're "old school" boatbuilders, so I can trust them to do the job properly - which they did. The cost of cranage adds quite a bit to the operation - especially as the job shouldn't be a "lift and hold".

[Leo No2]

I have had my boat blacked three times now (2 year intervals) with a Laleham based boatyard, quite possibly the same place as you. The last blacking it came out on a Monday and was back in the water on the Thursday which does sound a bit too quick. But that said, prior to every blacking I have a full hull survey done by an independent surveyor and each time the steel has shown no signs of thinning or pitting.

 

I don't believe that amount of time gives the required period for the blacking to dry unless it is extremely hot. I have been down to see mine today and they say it will take the full time I am in the dry dock for the blacking to dry.

[dave.e]

Don't worry Kathryn. Jon & Ian at Baxters will do a first-class job.

 

Dave,

Sophie-Jane No.2

[Leo No2]

Don't worry Kathryn. Jon & Ian at Baxters will do a first-class job.

 

Dave,

Sophie-Jane No.2

Thanks Dave - I went to have a look this morning and they were hard at work doing it so I am quite relaxed. I need to be as I am on a blood pressure monitor for 24 hours at the moment. Of course when it was checked this morning is was spot on normal - great to see but typical!

[Daiboy]

The yard where I am presently moored say that the 2 part "epoxy"? blacking will last about 5 to 10 years ( as opposed to bitumen ) as long as the hull is sand blasted back to bare metal, survey for thickness done, appropriate undercoat and things carried out and this application made over around 2 weeks or so. I haven't as yet obtained the cost of this but will update as and when (but only if people think this is right and not bullsh*t.)

 

Any thoughts?

[MtB]

The yard where I am presently moored say that the 2 part "epoxy"? blacking will last about 5 to 10 years ( as opposed to bitumen ) as long as the hull is sand blasted back to bare metal, survey for thickness done, appropriate undercoat and things carried out and this application made over around 2 weeks or so. I haven't as yet obtained the cost of this but will update as and when (but only if people think this is right and not bullsh*t.)

 

Any thoughts?

 

Yes. Don't scratch it in a lock...

 

Hope that helps

 

 

MtB

[RichardN]

 

Yes. Don't scratch it in a lock...

 

Hope that helps

 

 

MtB

 

We have 2 part blacking over zinga paint, we had it re-done after 5 years and 2500 locks but I have to say it looked very good - photos here.

 

Sadly a week after it was done we took it up the Chesterfield, well actual up was not to bad but it got a bit of a hammering going down. Our 2 pack really needs a month or so of gentle treatment before it becomes properly robust

[Guest]

The yard where I am presently moored say that the 2 part "epoxy"? blacking will last about 5 to 10 years ( as opposed to bitumen ) as long as the hull is sand blasted back to bare metal, survey for thickness done, appropriate undercoat and things carried out and this application made over around 2 weeks or so. I haven't as yet obtained the cost of this but will update as and when (but only if people think this is right and not bullsh*t.)

 

Any thoughts?

 

That sounds all great in theory but how long the stuff adheres to the hull is only part of the story. It's inevitable that you will lose some to knocks and scrapes, including catching the sides under water on unseen obstructions, rocks, ledges etc etc

 

I can't see unless it's bullet proof or you don't use the boat how it can possibly provide protection for anything like that length of time. I think three years is the absolute max. I would be prepared to go.

 

There was a boat out of the water at Thorne last week - pulled out after ours went back in and I wish I'd taken some pics. now as it was a textbook example of how bad a hull can get if it is not blacked often enough. There was also another being over plated standing next to it and it didn't look that old but obviously had similarly suffered.

[PaddingtonBear]

I have just blacked Bakewell and during this process I discussed the possibility (theoretically!) of using 2 pack as it appeared to be suddenly very popular, at least in these parts. The cost of the material alone would be..........................£2000 and as has been said it will not stand up to roughty toughty boating any better than bitumen.

[Daiboy]

Thanks people. Maybe just bitumen then and out every 2 or 3 years eh.

[blackrose]

The yard where I am presently moored say that the 2 part "epoxy"? blacking will last about 5 to 10 years ( as opposed to bitumen ) as long as the hull is sand blasted back to bare metal, survey for thickness done, appropriate undercoat and things carried out and this application made over around 2 weeks or so. I haven't as yet obtained the cost of this but will update as and when (but only if people think this is right and not bullsh*t.)

 

Any thoughts?

 

If you're paying a yard to do an expensive grit blast and epoxy job then you really need to make sure they're going to do it properly.

 

I don't think some people who've commented on epoxy have actually used these products or seen how good some of they are. A couple of years ago I pressure washed a 115 year old steam boat that had been painted with Sigma pitch epoxy 10 years earlier and not touched since. Everything above the waterline had been neglected and had to be completely refitted - we even had mink onboard. But below the waterline the epoxy was still perfect - at least on the outside! The bilges had been painted with some sort of bitumen based paint which had to all be taken off and repainted with Jotamastic 87 epoxy which is very good stuff too.

 

If epoxy gets scraped off as easily as some paople seem to be suggesting then it wasn't properly applied in the first place, and lets face it, if bitumen was any good it would be used much wider commercially.

Edited October 16, 2013 by blackrose

[Leo No2]

The guys doing mine (Jon and Ian) both have had their boats done with 2-pack epoxy and swear by it. Have said my 60' shell would cost about £1,500 to do but would need to go to Debdale to be shot blasted.

 

I am still old fashioned enough to believe a good look at the underwater parts of the hull every couple of years is prudent. I wonder what the view is on that?

 

I am sure the development of all technologies runs way ahead of my ability to keep up with them so perhaps in a couple of years I'll investigate 2-pack more closely but I just can't help feeling a good look at the underwater parts of the hull is a sensible thing to do.

[WJM]

I am with you, Leo. I have my boat lifted out and blacked every two years. I am sure that the blacking could last three or even four years but every time I have it lifted I have it inspected too. It gives me peace of mind. I thought about the two-pack epoxy but decided that it wouldn't 'do' enough for me, I would either still be lifting it every two years anyway or I could be on a boat that has not been inspected in a decade!

And that is without mentioning anode replacement!