Oil spray beta 1505

[simonsayssaysimon]

Hello all. Recently the dual belts on my travelpower broke and after removing them I cruised the half an hour or so home to my mooring. The engine seemed fine without belts on the second alternator with no extra vibration and if anything seemed better due to the lack of the monster travelpower alternator.

 

However. This was a very stupid thing to do.

 

I took the boat out since then and all oil drained out. Well, sprayed out. Everywhere.

 

I refilled with oil and replaced the filter. Tested the engine and still oil droplets. I suspect the leak is between the fly wheel and the engine. This has messed up the standard alternator too I fear as the tacho goes up to tick over but stays there no matter what the revs (checked all wiring). There seems to be a tiiiny bit of play on the flywheel and the gap between the fly wheel and the engine is ominously shiny (approx 4mm). Oil level is stable when the engine is off. How do I remedy this situation?

[Bobbybass]

Hi..

 

This is a common fail on the Beta.

It's the 46mm nut that holds the HUGE heavy pulley onto the end of the crankshaft...it's loose.

Remove all belts..and then rock the pulley....as you say..there is play..

The pulley is a stupid arrangement...as it sticks out the front of the crankshaft a long way....it is pulled heavily by the belts...and it also weighs a bloody ton !

It is a taper fit but the pulley and the taper are not machined (badly machined !!) to the same taper..which means that it ends up sitting on one edge...rather than evenly. It comes slightly loose waggles...and then works itself loose in no time at all.

The whole thing is held by that one 46mm nut !

Beta have tried pinning it...welding it...but it still comes undone eventually.

Sometimes after thousands of hours..

Sometimes..like my neighbours boat..after 700 hours !!

In the case of my neighbour..Beta said..'Gosh thats unusual'..

He had a fight on his hands..but eventually they paid for supply/fit a new short engine.

 

What you are experiencing..is that the belt pulley is running eccentrically...(it flops about !!) and pulls against the oil seal on the end of the crank making it gap..and the oil sprays everywhere.

I had this problem..but not until it was severe...and I had to make a complete different type of assembly.

Beta were not sympathetic and claimed it was an unusual fault...but I was contacted by the MD of River Canal Rescue who said they were being called out to it on a regular basis.

 

I had this problem and it became catastrophic.

You may still be in a position to remedy it.

To access the nut..you have to remove the pulley...

There are allan bolts on the top face..you remove them...and then...insert one into the spare hole..

You wind it down..and it breaks the taper..

You can then remove the outer pulley...

This gives access to 3 allan headed bolts that hold the assembly ..which is inserted into the recess of the altermator pulley.

 

You will need to get a 'deep' 46mm socket...and then torque it to 110Ft/Lb

I would use a brand new 46mm nut...and smother it in Locktite.

 

As you have it apart..you may wish to obtain and fit a new crankshaft oil seal..which isn't expensive..

You prise the old one out with a screwdriver..and just tap the new one in.

 

Come back to me..if you want any more help...or PM me...

 

On my engine..it was totally destroyed..

I used the aluminium pulley from the later engine..had it machined...and designed a custom bracket to hold the Travelpower.

 

I had to cut the end of the engine support cradle off to do this..(Hint 1..never angle grind when

the batteries are charging!!..Hint 2....20 pots of baking sode will neutralise the acid from 4 batteries !!)

 

This meant less weight..and also the whole assembly was closer to the engine.

Beta said..it could not be done...but it can...as I did it..

My Travelpower projected slightly more..and I found that this actually balanced the engine better and reduce vibration.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Bobbybass

[simonsayssaysimon]

Thank you so much for such a detailed if slightly terrifying answer.

 

Any chance you know what size crankshaft oil seal I'll need? Or is that a contact beta with a photo of your engine question?

[Bobbybass]

Thank you so much for such a detailed if slightly terrifying answer.

 

Any chance you know what size crankshaft oil seal I'll need? Or is that a contact beta with a photo of your engine question?

You need to contact Beta with your WOC number off the top of the engine.

 

My decsription may vary from your own setup.

 

Buy the seal and new nut... also ask if they can give you (they gave me free) some of the special high power Locktite.

 

I may have misslead slightly...as the 46mm nut holds the inner most pulley..the iron alternator pulley..everything else just 'hangs' on it..hence the problem. The whole assembly is on that one inner nut.

Bear in mind..I'm working from memory.

 

Working from the engine..outward..

 

At the end of the crankshaft..you have a small diameter iron alternator pulley..that is keyed and held by the 46mm nut. The shaft that holds the other pulleys..then inserts into the recess on the front of the small pulley..and is held there by 3 long allan headed bolts. To access that 46mm nut..you have to remove the front drive shaft from where it is inserted into this recess.

 

The hree allan bolts are recessed into the top surface of the shaft..and you have to remove the large front pulley to exposed them.

 

Its not that terrifying...just work methodically...BUT..there is something serious I forgot (sorry)

 

You will not be able to remove/torque down the 46mm nut without 'locking' the engine.

To do this...you will need to remove the gearbox...and put a rod through the flywheel..

How about renewing the drive plate at the same time..?...(well..may as well get some use for it !!)

 

You will need a good set of allan bits to get the bolts undone..done up..

 

There are 3 long ones that hold it all onto alternator pulley....I should renew them as well.

You will also need the 46mm socket..

I got mine from Ebay..but you may be able to 'pursuade' Beta to lend you one..

 

Contact Beta...ask for Adrian..or John Lusty...they are very helpful...BUT don't expect them to acknowledge the fault.

 

I sent them photos of my adapted pulley system..

 

As the taper has been 'waggling'..coat that with Locktite as well..as it will have worn.

I replaced my alernator pulley..as the job was so involved.and my pulley was badly damaged.. it cost over £100 !!

 

You may want to excede the 110 Lb/ft for the 46mm nut..but I didn't say that..

 

Once I had the nut torqued down....I drilled (angle drill) along a flange ..into the alternator pulley..tapped it 4mm and inserted an allan headed screw to try and stop it undoing.

 

Beta have carried out various marinising operations on this (the Kubota) engine.

On some..they cut the crankshaft flush at the top of the 46mm nut. On others...they allowed a length of splined shaft to project after the 46mm nut. The one with the length of shaft is more useful..as you can in invent ways of locking the 46mm nut...for example...drill through and put a split pin in there.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Bobbybass

[simonsayssaysimon]

Thanks again.. Looks like I'll have to disassemble and see. My troubles only started when I ran the engine without the travelpower belts. After putting them back on it's all still running really smoothly. Hopefully I can tighten the nut and replace the seal and be good to go.. There is always hope right?

[OldGoat]

If the engine in question has not been emasculated by cutting off the splined extension, Beta now have a modification which takes all the drive to the travelpower via the spline - which is the original Kubota solution for front power take off. It's very neat. The cast iron pulley now only drives the small alternator and water pump, so not much of a load. Worth doing.

 

Anyone want to buy a 2203 with a wobbly pulley?

 

 

[Bobbybass]

If the engine in question has not been emasculated by cutting off the splined extension, Beta now have a modification which takes all the drive to the travelpower via the spline - which is the original Kubota solution for front power take off. It's very neat. The cast iron pulley now only drives the small alternator and water pump, so not much of a load. Worth doing.

 

Anyone want to buy a 2203 with a wobbly pulley?

 

 

 

Hi..

 

It would have been nice to find a little bit of splined shaft to 'hang' it all on..but from my enquiries amongst other boaters and also RCR, this is only a very recent development.

The majority of engines have a shaft flush with the top of the 46mm nut.

I can't understand why they happily hacksawed it off ?..maybe it was 'space saving'..?

 

My own replacement job was hard work.

 

There was no way I could get anything like the 110 ft/lb torque without locking the engine.

That entailed removing the gearbox....but once the centaflex was undone from the prop shaft plate...there was not the clearance to slide the gearbox back enough to get the splines out of the drive plate/flywheel.

I had a ratchet hoist...attached to my landing ladder..over the rear hatch.

I had to use a car jack to raise the engine completely off the front mounts...before it would clear..

It was a heck of an angle...

There was also one..nasty.so**ing nut..that held the gearbox to the engine..that was inaccesible due to its poximity to the front port engine mount ..that obviously sits on a steel support. terrible design...but caused by cobbling an unmatched engine/gearbox configuration...as you get in boats !

 

This wasn't just unique to my boat...as other boaters talked about it.

Some boaters told me..they didn't bother to put it back..not wise !

 

Having expended so much effort..I obviously renewed the engine mounts at the same time !

 

I locked the engine then.....and as I had it apart..I replaced the drive plate.

Engine : Beta 43...Gearbox PRM 160...drive plate : Centa...

The drive plate did not really match the engine. It is such a tight fit into the bell housing that you cannot access the allan bolts that hold it to the flywheel. My old plate had been 'hacksawed' to make slots..and when I picked up the new plate from Beta in Gloucester...they said it would need hacksawing....so it's 'known'.

 

Tip: After hacksawing slots....file it..otherwise you cut your fingers to ribbons !

 

I found..that it was a job that 'evolved'..

It was easy to say..'I'll just tighten up that naughty loose 46mm nut'...and then ....and then !!!

 

Good luck !

[simonsayssaysimon]

Lordy. I'm experiencing and then ...and then already.. So I can't get the travelpower pully to pop off the taper. Mine had three holes, two with alan bolts in and the third open (to release hopefully) There is also a half moon shaped hole with a groove running through the centre of the pulley. I don't understand the purpose of this... pin? Please say no..

 

 

 

 

So any ideas? Am I missing something? Or is it a case of tap harder?

 

Foiled on the other end now by two bolts under the Hurth gearbox that I can just access but are still showing me two fingers. Time to cut a wrench in half and attach a leverage bar...

 

 

EDIT: It works as described, it's just really jammed.

Edited October 9, 2013 by simonsayssaysimon

[Bobbybass]

You will just have to hit it like mad !!

 

Bear in mind...you are NOT trying to get the pulley off the shaft...

The centre part that is pinned by the 'key' stays on the shaft.

 

Once you undo the allan bolts and insert one of them...it will remove the pulley from the large inner part...(that's about 3 inches diameter. That 'plug' will stay on the shaft..and you will end up with the pulley with a 3 inch hole in the centre.

 

It's easy to misunderstand this and think that you are trying to slide the centre down the keyed shaft...(no chance).

 

NO...the centre part will stay on the keyed shaft.

The pulley will come off where you see the 'seam' that runs half way across the allan screws.

 

Bob

Edited October 10, 2013 by Bobbybass

[ditchcrawler]

You will just have to hit it like mad !!

 

Bear in mind...you are NOT trying to get the pulley off the shaft...

Once you undo the allan bolts and insert on of them...it will remove the pulley from the large inner part...(that's about 3 inches diameter. That 'plug' will stay on the shaft..and you will end up with the pulley with a 3 inch hole in the centre.

 

It's easy to misunderstand this and think that you are trying to slide the centre down the keyed shaft.

NO...the centre part will stay on the keyed shaft.

The pulley will come off where you see the 'seam' that runs half way across the allan screws.

 

Bob

Is this any help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajD30bn5UFE

[Bobbybass]

Is this any help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajD30bn5UFE

That's a good example of how it works.

 

Many folk...try and drive the whole assembly over the keyed shaft without releasing the taper lock.

It's a bit like adjusting your bike handlebars...where you loosen the top nut...then tap it DOWN to release it.

 

Well done !

Edited October 10, 2013 by Bobbybass

[simonsayssaysimon]

It was a youtube video like that that finally gave me understanding. Thanks for the post though! I wish those videos would show real world 19 year old pulleys that are really stuck! heating and tapping towards the engine now.. argh. Tempted to try and fit the car jack between the bulkhead and the pulley to push it off But I'll wait for my alan connectors to arrive for my torque wrench to get more leverage on the release bolt first.

[Bobbybass]

It was a youtube video like that that finally gave me understanding. Thanks for the post though! I wish those videos would show real world 19 year old pulleys that are really stuck! heating and tapping towards the engine now.. argh. Tempted to try and fit the car jack between the bulkhead and the pulley to push it off But I'll wait for my alan connectors to arrive for my torque wrench to get more leverage on the release bolt first.

Problem is..that running 'eccentric' will have taken its toll.

WD40 and lots of tapping...tap...wind allan screw..tap..wind allan screw..

Tap..wind allan screw..(got it yet..?... )

Just keep tapping round the rim...over and over..

The alan screws...held the pulley into the 'boss'...when you insert one back into the 'dead' hole..you are push it down...against the pulley..and pushing the pulley back.

 

You could try boiling water over the rim..but watch out for a blow torch..(Thus speaks a man who bought 20 pots of baking soda to neutralise the battery acid after they all blew up !!)

Edited October 10, 2013 by Bobbybass

[simonsayssaysimon]

Alan keys on torque wrench did the job. a little more leverage and Ping! Everything worked like it was supposed to. All fixed.. Despite disconnecting my gearbox (not enough room to remove) I managed to get the bolt tight by clamping the small pulley with a wrench and holding on for dear life with one arm while torque wrenching the bolt with the other! Note for future readers: standard pulley bolt on a BV1505 is 23mm not 46as stated above! Thanks for all the info and support through this job which is arguably the biggest I've done. Wasn't scary at all in the end.

[Tigerr]

This is a most dispiriting read given my own Beta 43 pulleys are lying on the bilge floor. Too late for remedial action, the connection is 'mullered' as you say.  Expletives all round.