Saltersford Tunnel

[Keeping Up]

If you know what you're doing you can use this effect, coupled with prop wash, to your advantage when narrowboating through wide locks......Most boaters I see don't understand it and it works to their great disadvantage.

Can you explain this one a bit further? I can't see how you can be travelling fast enough in a lock to use the effect and I'd love to learn a new technique if there's one on offer.

 

The 'bank effect' is great, with a bit of care you can use it to take the boat around a bend without having to do any of the steering yourself.

[Hairy-Neil]

Can you explain this one a bit further?

 

Its more a case of not letting the laws of physics take control of you.....

 

Always enter the empty (empty of boats, not necessarily water , the procedure works in both up and downhill situations) lock with intent to come along side on the side that prop wash takes you when in reverse. This can vary from boat to boat so there is no rule of thumb.

 

Most people make the mistake of entering very close to or even touching the wall and trying to stay parallel with it. Don't. It doesn't work......The water always takes charge.

 

Enter the gates centrally, then aim the boat diagonally across at a touch point, roughly 2/3 - 3/4 into the lock, obviously at a speed from which you can stop, selecting reverse at the point of contact with the wall with the aim of coming to rest against the cill/bottom gate. The bows will stop against the wall, prop wash will draw the stern across to the wall.

 

Get it right and you can pat yourself on the back. Get it wrong and the loaded butty, weighing perhaps 50 tons and unable to slow itself down, will fetch you one.....

 

Works better the longer the boat is but all boats behave the same to some degree.

[Keeping Up]

Thanks for that, very well explained.

 

In fact that is exactly how I always try to do it, though I had not recognised the fine detail of the effect you describe in keeping the bows in place against the wall. Maybe now I will be able to refine my technique slightly to make better use of it. Certainly I've found that if you have another boat in tow, it sharpens your concentration considerably!

 

It is very satisfying when not only does it all happen as you describe, but also at the last minute the prop-wash from the reversing propellor acts as a cushion and stops the stern from actually hitting the wall (a useful technique when mooring too). One thing I have noticed is that if you have to spend too long in reverse before reaching the comfort of the far end of the lock, the water that has been pushed forwards by the prop will eventually reach the bows and push them out into the middle of the lock again.

[DHutch]

Last year BW put Saltersford on timed passage but omitted to install mooring rings or bollards at either end of the tunnel.

Did anyone else think it was better without?

- I dont know, never really had a problem with it without, i quite like a good debate anyway.

 

Going though last year we jumped the gun on the entry time be a few minutes, such that we left the tunnel to coninside with the time we should have started it. The tunnel was empty, and it was past the published time for entry from the otherside, so we saw little harm in it, and then suggest the boat waiting with us lead to save them breathing our smoke, as we had not unrecently put some fresh coal on.

 

Anyway, leaving the tunnel we met a tripboat waiting to go the otherway, and he hurled no end of abuse at us. Stating that it was "our sort that caused unrest on the system" and the like. And that we had held him up!

 

Well, the only way we would have held him up was if he was planning to entry shorly after his last entry time, on the assumption he could get though in under ten minutes.

- And apprently the boat that lead though said that we had forced them to enter before the stated time! They said nothing when we mentioned this as the following stoplock! Awkward silent anyone?

 

 

 

Daniel

[Timleech]

Did anyone else think it was better without?

- I dont know, never really had a problem with it without, i quite like a good debate anyway.

 

Going though last year we jumped the gun on the entry time be a few minutes, such that we left the tunnel to coninside with the time we should have started it. The tunnel was empty, and it was past the published time for entry from the otherside, so we saw little harm in it, and then suggest the boat waiting with us lead to save them breathing our smoke, as we had not unrecently put some fresh coal on.

 

Anyway, leaving the tunnel we met a tripboat waiting to go the otherway, and he hurled no end of abuse at us. Stating that it was "our sort that caused unrest on the system" and the like. And that we had held him up!

 

Well, the only way we would have held him up was if he was planning to entry shorly after his last entry time, on the assumption he could get though in under ten minutes.

- And apprently the boat that lead though said that we had forced them to enter before the stated time! They said nothing when we mentioned this as the following stoplock! Awkward silent anyone?

Daniel

 

If you plan to enter a timed tunnel out of time, I suggest you do it such a way that it won't hold up anyone who will/can be clear of your end before the official time. That probably sounds a bit convoluted, but I think it makes some sort of sense. For instance, Preston Brook tunnel takes about 12 to 16 minutes to pass at 'sensible' speeds. Entry times from the South end are on the hour for ten minutes. Anyone entering from the North after 10 minutes to the hour isn't likely to clear the South end before the hour, so if the tunnel is clear after 10 to you should be OK to enter from the South without upsetting anyone. What I wouldn't do is enter from the South at twenty to, which is the last time to enter from the North. It would be really infuriating to arrive a couple of minutes late, knowing perfectly well that you can clear the tunnel without holding anyone else up, only to find that some impatient s*d has come in early from the other end & you now have to wait another hour. Especially so if you're working for a living, and even more so if you have passengers aboard.

 

Tim

Edited February 10, 2008 by Timleech

[DHutch]

Yeah, well i accept we may have been a little hasty. Although we only entered left maybe 5minutes early.

- He's was the first boat we had seen on the move all day, bar the boat that had been following for half an hour having declinded passing us.

- If i was him no doubt i would have been marginaly bitter at having found us midway though 6/7 minutes past his deadline, buts thats just life, and i would proberbly have just gone after we emerged anyway!

 

 

Daniel

[Timleech]

Yeah, well i accept we may have been a little hasty. Although we only entered left maybe 5minutes early.

- He's was the first boat we had seen on the move all day, bar the boat that had been following for half an hour having declinded passing us.

- If i was him no doubt i would have been marginaly bitter at having found us midway though 6/7 minutes past his deadline, buts thats just life, and i would proberbly have just gone after we emerged anyway!

Daniel

 

If he did, then anyone following you & waiting at the other end would have been really and justifiably cross. One person upsetting the system can have a significant knock-on effect.

 

Nothing to do with tunnel times, this was after the traffic lights had gone and long before the times were introduced even at Preston Brook, but...

We had been helping bow-haul a friend's boat to Preston Brook after the Birmingham IWA National Rally, which was late 1960s I suppose. We managed to wangle a tow from a Birmingham & Midland CCCo Working boat from Shebdon, on the understanding that I would go back with him to lock-wheel etc. We left Preston Brook about 4:30am, so arrived at Saltersford a little after 5:30 & as we were about to enter Ted was explaining to me how important it was to go steady when entering tunnels when another boat emerged at that precise moment. We probably didn't see anyone else on the move before reaching Middlewich!

 

Tim

[ghoole]

Hi 

I need to move a 60ft x 10ft through here, has anyone done it? Is it possible? Thanks 

Edited November 13, 2019 by ghoole

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, ghoole said:

Hi 

I need to move a 60ft x 10ft through here, has anyone done it? Is it possible? Thanks 

The last wide beam that I heard of did so much damage to his hand rails that he decided not to come back again. A lot will depend on your shape.

[dmr]

We have followed one through and heard some bangs and scrapes. I have heard that a localish company builds or at leasts fits boats that are made for that tunnel and he is expert at driving them through, but dunno who he is.

 

................Dave

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 hours ago, ghoole said:

Hi 

I need to move a 60ft x 10ft through here, has anyone done it? Is it possible? Thanks 

Ask the Navigation Authority. 

 

Don’t get stuck ffs. I want to go through in a fortnight. 

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

Ask the Navigation Authority. 

 

 

Well their own published dimensions at https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/32433-waterway-dimensions.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjunKvMhujlAhVMTcAKHbCFDgIQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3iCubBG1oAFN65DJgjxcyY say that the whole length from Preston Brook to Croxton is maximum 7ft beam. This is demonstrably not the case, but CRT might neverthless argue that.

[Pie Eater]

I thought the width was 9 foot. I know there is a section just inside the north end of Saltersford tunnel that is low and possibly narrower at that point.

[magpie patrick]

6 hours ago, ghoole said:

Hi 

I need to move a 60ft x 10ft through here, has anyone done it? Is it possible? Thanks 

I've got to question "need" - what's a boat ten feet wide doing near this tunnel? And why must it go through?

 

A local builder builds 9 foot wide "slimline" wide beam boats that can get from Anderton (indeed Croxton) to the Bridgwater canal through three tunnels and a stop lock. This builder makes them 9 feet for a reason. I'd say at ten feet you're pushing it for Saltisford and you certainly won't get it all the way from Anderton to the Bridgwater canal. 

[AndrewIC]

In another old post on here, Tim Leech reckoned the top gate of the stop lock was 9ft and a few inches. Wincham make their “Pioneer” boats 9ft and reckon they fit through to the Bridgewater.

 

[ghoole]

21 hours ago, ghoole said:

Hi 

I need to move a 60ft x 10ft through here, has anyone done it? Is it possible? Thanks 

Thanks everyone, looks like I need to transport by road! 

[Arthur Marshall]

15 minutes ago, ghoole said:

Thanks everyone, looks like I need to transport by road! 

That's much too sensible a response.  If you're not careful, you'll fall out with people for not insisting you try and bash your way through and then complaining about maintenance, terms and conditions, people playing banjos and cyclists with fishing rods.

In fact, you have probably restored the reputation of the entire wide boat owning fraternity.  Your coat is by the door, thank you for dropping in.

[Iain_S]

22 hours ago, ghoole said:

Hi 

I need to move a 60ft x 10ft through here, has anyone done it? Is it possible? Thanks 

Which direction? I suppse I'm really asking where you are and where you want to go. There are a few wide beams near our mooring (Park Farm, near Rudheath) and we reckon their only means of escape is Anderton lift, River Weaver, Manchester Ship Canal, Pomona Lock onto the Bridgewater, then Rochdale or Leeds and Liverpool.

[Heartland]

The canal was widened for boats between Anderton and Middlewich and so a boat in that area would have to use the lift. When Hugh Henshall engineered the section of waterway to Preston Brook ( Preston on the Hill or Preston Port) any wide boat movement was intended north of Preston Brook tunnel.

 

Out of Gauge movement would not be appropriate for these tunnels.

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Which direction? I suppse I'm really asking where you are and where you want to go. There are a few wide beams near our mooring (Park Farm, near Rudheath) and we reckon their only means of escape is Anderton lift, River Weaver, Manchester Ship Canal, Pomona Lock onto the Bridgewater, then Rochdale or Leeds and Liverpool.

The last one who tried the tunnel from there decided not to come back

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, Heartland said:

The canal was widened for boats between Anderton and Middlewich and so a boat in that area would have to use the lift. When Hugh Henshall engineered the section of waterway to Preston Brook ( Preston on the Hill or Preston Port) any wide boat movement was intended north of Preston Brook tunnel.

 

Out of Gauge movement would not be appropriate for these tunnels.

 

I always thought it was always wide as far as Middlewich and that Croxton Aqueduct was originally wide. this seems to agree with this :-

 

"The section of the Trent and Mersey Canal between Middlewich and Preston Brook was originally intended a

s a wide canal, allowing boats (Flats) of 14 feet (4.25 metres) beam to come from Liverpool and Manchester,

and unload onto narrow boats at Middlewich. The bridges in this section were built wide enough for the Flats.

However, the tunnels between Barnton and Preston Brook which were built later, were not. The Flats still had

to unload onto narrow boats at Preston Brook

 

From https://www.cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk/documents/planning-and-building-consultancy/total-environment/conservation-and-design/conservation-area-appraisals/TrentMerseyCanalConservationArea.pdf

[Ian Mac]

My understanding of width of the Lower T&M is that it was widened from Middlewich Town Wharf to Anderton so that the Mersey flats could take the milk from the diary in Middlewich Direct to Liverpool and Birkenhead.
The stop lock at Dutton has always been semi narrow, I believe, although it may have been wider originally. However I have only ever seen pictures of it with the one top gate, in fact this was the only gate for many years, with its really long balance beam. I have it on good heresy that you can not get a short boat through Preston Brook Tunnel. Also from personal experience I know that two boats do not pass having accidentally attempted this in the dead of night, us using a candle in a signal light and the boat coming in the other direction not only having no head light but also a damage cylinder head so the tunnel was full of fog. It took a considerable amount of time to get the two boats apart, after the fronts had gone 9ft past each other. That was at 3am on a Monday morning just after new year, many years ago.

Having said that it may be possible to pass in the recently repaired bit in the middle, never really looked.
The boat Shellfen, which lived on the Bridgewater, was a regular visitor to Middlewich folk festival, in years past, but had to moor north of the Aqueduct at Croxley. Shellfen is a fat boat but not sure how fat! My guess is about 9ft.

As to entering Salterford Tunnel always do it very slowly, as its is only once your in, that you can see to judge if someone else is also in there.

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

 

The boat Shellfen, which lived on the Bridgewater, was a regular visitor to Middlewich folk festival, in years past, but had to moor north of the Aqueduct at Croxley. Shellfen is a fat boat but not sure how fat! My guess is about 9ft.
 

But it has a different profile to most modern wide beams .

[AndrewIC]

4 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

The boat Shellfen, which lived on the Bridgewater, was a regular visitor to Middlewich folk festival, in years past, but had to moor north of the Aqueduct at Croxley. Shellfen is a fat boat but not sure how fat! My guess is about 9ft.

42ft 8in x 8ft 9in according to the listing on Canalplan.

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

42ft 8in x 8ft 9in according to the listing on Canalplan.

Looks a bit different now