Stern types.

[bodger]

Why do you think a trad stern and a tiller combination could be dangerous?

'Cos I drink a lot? No, truth is i misread the post, which was about cruiser sterns and tillers. Apologies for numtyness!

[Guest]

'Cos I drink a lot? No, truth is i misread the post, which was about cruiser sterns and tillers. Apologies for numtyness!

No problemo....

[Southern Star]

Thanks for all the input, I have a while to make my mind up and I'll try to look at a few boats when I'm on holiday next year (I'm hiring a nb from Anderton for a week). I am tending towards a trad because I won't tend to spend a lot of time with company by choice.

 

I'll post nearer the time but if anybody is going to be somewhere in between Anderton and Chester in the first week of August 2014, we'd love to have a chat and a look at your boat!

[Beaker]

Have a Greenie from me Homer. I agree with every word.

 

D'OH!!

[bargemast]

 

I've reduced the static draught from about 3'8" when I bought it, to about 3'3" now. It's too wide for the narrow canals anyway (9 foot beam), but that reduction does make it more useable on some wider canals and means I can creep along the Trent & Mersey from Preston Brook to the Anderton boat lift - important for me as I'm based near to Preston Brook.

There is a half ton ballast tank in the forepeak, and running with that half full gives me 3'3" at the stern. Emptying it brings the stern down to nearer to 3'6", useful in deep water because the propeller is less likely to ventilate.

 

Tim

 

That's about 1 m, so perfect for the smaller canals in France, don't you ever dream of doing a tour with your tug revisiting all the places you've been to on "Beecliffe" ?

 

Peter.

[Ange]

SNIP With a trad stern, you are almost certainly on your 'jack jones'. or else you have a crew member who is forced to a) stand on the gunwhale or b )sit uncomfortably on the roof. SNIP

On our boat and on my parents' trad stern there's option c ) - stand on the top step just inside the hatch - it works for us

[Starcoaster]

I have a cruiser stern which makes engine/weedhatch access easy (other than the fact that I sheared off the bolt in the weedhatch last week when I tried to open it, but that's another story) but I would go for a trad next. When I am on Reg or Aldebaran if I am not steering I stand perfectly happily on the gunnels holding the handrail for a couple of hours at a time, I don't find it uncomfortable so not sure why this is a minus point? I'd never sit on a seat to steer on any stern though.

[Ange]

Just found a piccie - one of Iona's previous owners had a seat made which Dave is perched very comfortably on. I'm trying to get Millie to look at the camera

 

[Timleech]

 

That's about 1 m, so perfect for the smaller canals in France, don't you ever dream of doing a tour with your tug revisiting all the places you've been to on "Beecliffe" ?

 

Peter.

 

There are other things that I'd rather do - I would like to visit the Irish waterways, also Brittany etc., never been there with a boat. Quite fancy the Netherlands again, they seem to like old tugs there

All a matter of finding time and money, both are in short supply. If I retired (65 next week but don't plan to retire for a while yet) I'd have more time but even less of the other.

 

Tim

Edited September 12, 2013 by Timleech

[blackrose]

Dirty great w/beam square sterned boats with huge flat uxter plates used on small waterways and rivers cause a really huge, horrid suction vortex and wave in their wake at even low speeds which doggedly follows them about everywhere leaving a big and wild local fluctuation in water levels eroding the banks, upsetting Moorhen and Coots nests leaving them very angry and insecure and often nestless ect. Lots of homeless water birds around here because of em.

 

As the owner of such vessel I can assure you that every word of what Bizz has said here is utter bollox! There is no suction vortex or wave from my boat on small waterways or large, but bigger boats will always displace more water than smaller boats.

 

On the question of stern types the truth is that both have advantages & disadvantages. I'd rather have a cruiser stern when I have people onboard. A trad is a bit miserable for anyone else apart from the steerer and engine access is often much better on a cruiser stern. On the other hand you may not want to go into the engine hole on a cruiser stern when it's raining, unless you have a pram hood and a trad gives you more accessible storage space for your tools and other stuf you don't want in your accommodation space. So for me it's swings and roundabouts.

Edited September 12, 2013 by blackrose

[IanM]

Edited post because I replied a page behind the conversation!

Edited September 12, 2013 by IanM

[bargemast]

 

There are other things that I'd rather do - I would like to visit the Irish waterways, also Brittany etc., never been there with a boat. Quite fancy the Netherlands again, they seem to like old tugs there

All a matter of finding time and money, both are in short supply. If I retired (65 next week but don't plan to retire for a while yet) I'd have more time but even less of the other.

 

Tim

 

Of course there are plenty of other nice waters to visit closer to home, and a lovely boat like your tug will surely get admirable views wherever she go's, and not only in the Netherlands where they like old tugs and where there are many to see.

 

Myself I've lots of time on my hands of which most is wasted as my physical condition doesn't allow me to do half the things I would like to, and I've got a great lack of the other too, but that could be salved if I would be lucky in the Loto.

 

Peter.

[Guest]

 

As the owner of such vessel I can assure you that every word of what Bizz has said here is utter bollox! There is no suction vortex or wave from my boat on small waterways or large, but bigger boats will always displace more water than smaller boats.

 

On the question of stern types the truth is that both have advantages & disadvantages. I'd rather have a cruiser stern when I have people onboard. A trad is a bit miserable for anyone else apart from the steerer and engine access is often much better on a cruiser stern. On the other hand you may not want to go into the engine hole on a cruiser stern when it's raining, unless you have a pram hood and a trad gives you more accessible storage space for your tools and other stuf you don't want in your accommodation space. So for me it's swings and roundabouts.

It's true that larger esp. wide beams shift a lot more water. We always double pin on the Leeds and Liverpool (our home canal) especially around where a couple of wide beam trip boats operate. I am not implying that they fail to slow down, because they do sow down wen passing moored boats, but inevitably they make a big hole in the water, often leaving a NB temporarily on the bottom. Not a problem if the boat is moored properly of course, and not the usual centre rope only. It is just one of the characteristics of being on a wide canal.The C&RT work boats are all wide too.

Plenty of wildlife on here Bizz, in fact you can have a few of 'em because they are a nuisance in the early hours

Edited September 13, 2013 by Guest

[homer2911]

I have a cruiser stern which makes engine/weedhatch access easy (other than the fact that I sheared off the bolt in the weedhatch last week when I tried to open it, but that's another story) but I would go for a trad next. When I am on Reg or Aldebaran if I am not steering I stand perfectly happily on the gunnels holding the handrail for a couple of hours at a time, I don't find it uncomfortable so not sure why this is a minus point? I'd never sit on a seat to steer on any stern though.

The clue is in the word 'stand'. Many of us older folk find that uncomfortable after a time, and are glad of somewhere to sit now and again. If that isn't a problem for you, good luck, happy cruising, and enjoy the extra cabin space. I do worry though, about guests on a trad boat standing on the gunwhale in choppy or tidal waters.

[FadeToScarlet]

From having steered various friends' boats, and being on my second, I have to say that I prefer trad stern types, and in particular trad sterns with a deep draft and a low cabin.

 

The lower the cabin, the lower the tiller can be, and this is a key point of comfort. Other boats have the tiller anywhere between waist and armpit height for me (5'6"), but Willow has a tiller that's slightly above waist height, and it's very comfortable to use.

 

You can lean back nicely onto the inside of the hatch, taking most of the weight off your legs, and the tiller is where your hand naturally falls. If you get bored of looking one way, you can switch sides, or stand in front of the tiller and steer with it in the small of your back, with or without a hand there too.

 

I can also sit on the cabin top if I wish, and have a couple of wooden seats from a 1940s rowing boat that I will mount on blocks to fit on and allow this even more comfortably.

 

It's far more comfy than other cruiser sterned boats where you have to stand all the time.

[IanM]

From having steered various friends' boats, and being on my second, I have to say that I prefer trad stern types, and in particular trad sterns with a deep draft and a low cabin.

The lower the cabin, the lower the tiller can be, and this is a key point of comfort. Other boats have the tiller anywhere between waist and armpit height for me (5'6"), but Willow has a tiller that's slightly above waist height, and it's very comfortable to use.

You can lean back nicely onto the inside of the hatch, taking most of the weight off your legs, and the tiller is where your hand naturally falls. If you get bored of looking one way, you can switch sides, or stand in front of the tiller and steer with it in the small of your back, with or without a hand there too.

I can also sit on the cabin top if I wish, and have a couple of wooden seats from a 1940s rowing boat that I will mount on blocks to fit on and allow this even more comfortably.

It's far more comfy than other cruiser sterned boats where you have to stand all the time.

Quite agree. The tiller on Piglet isn't too bad but I once saw a boat where the tiller bar fitted pretty much under the guy's armpit and he wasn't short. Looked very uncomfortable.

[RLWP]

Quite agree. The tiller on Piglet isn't too bad but I once saw a boat where the tiller bar fitted pretty much under the guy's armpit and he wasn't short. Looked very uncomfortable.

 

There was a fashion at one time for low sided hulls that looked like loaded boats (a style I happen to like). The downside of this was that, as they weren't actually loaded boats, they still have the the same draft as a normal boat, so to get the necessary headroom the cabin roof had to be put higher than it would. So, the rear deck is low down near the water, the cabin top is higher than usual relative to the deck, the tiller still has to pass over the cabin top. Hence the tiller up yer armpit

 

Richard

[Ray T]

 

There was a fashion at one time for low sided hulls that looked like loaded boats (a style I happen to like). The downside of this was that, as they weren't actually loaded boats, they still have the the same draft as a normal boat, so to get the necessary headroom the cabin roof had to be put higher than it would. So, the rear deck is low down near the water, the cabin top is higher than usual relative to the deck, the tiller still has to pass over the cabin top. Hence the tiller up yer armpit

 

Richard

Weren't a lot of Stowe Hill boats built to this style?

[mark99]

On our Trad, on stretches that do not need lots of gear/speedwheel operations, Kim stands in the hatch where the steerer goes and I stand to the side steering- and we swap about. NB no-one in arc of tiller if reversing.

Edited September 15, 2013 by mark99

[blackrose]

From having steered various friends' boats, and being on my second, I have to say that I prefer trad stern types, and in particular trad sterns with a deep draft and a low cabin.

 

The lower the cabin, the lower the tiller can be, and this is a key point of comfort. Other boats have the tiller anywhere between waist and armpit height for me (5'6"), but Willow has a tiller that's slightly above waist height, and it's very comfortable to use.

 

You can lean back nicely onto the inside of the hatch, taking most of the weight off your legs, and the tiller is where your hand naturally falls. If you get bored of looking one way, you can switch sides, or stand in front of the tiller and steer with it in the small of your back, with or without a hand there too.

 

I can also sit on the cabin top if I wish, and have a couple of wooden seats from a 1940s rowing boat that I will mount on blocks to fit on and allow this even more comfortably.

 

It's far more comfy than other cruiser sterned boats where you have to stand all the time.

 

Why do you think one has to stand all the time on a cruiser stern? Sometimes I sit, sometimes I stand - whatever I feel like.

 

 

Edit: and in case anyone's wondering, my rudder hits the stop at about 30 degrees, so the tiller can't knock me off the stool. Even if it did, there's at least two and a half feet of boat behind me so there's no chance of going over the back of the boat.

Edited September 15, 2013 by blackrose

[Kwacker]

The back rail on my cruiser stern is exactly the right height so that if I want to sit on it, the tiller will still go "full lock" over my knees, although I usually prefer to stand.

Trads and semis look great, but I wouldn't swap.

On the move, there is space to have two or three people safely stand with the steerer, great with family and friends.

[Janet S]

Well, after more than ten years of hiring and borrowing boats, we are finally buying our own and we've opted for a cruiser stern on a 40' boat...

 

We are happy to lose some interior space for the extra outside area which allows us to be sociable and gives us very easy access to all the gubbins down below. We really value the space on deck, particularly when all three of us are on board. We tend not to spend a lot of time in the boat whilst cruising, so it was important for us to have the outdoor space where we can all enjoy our cruises together. A trad stern simply wouldn't work for us, although I can see it may have advantages for some.

 

We've tried semi trads (good) and trads (not to our liking) and we're happy that we've taken the right decision. With it being our own boat and not a hire boat, perhaps we may change our mind after prolonged usage, but I don't think so. We knows what we likes!

 

Janet

[Naughty Cal]

 

I'm hoping to get over there next summer, Leeds & Liverpool canal permitting...

 

Tim

Oh. Let us know when you are in this neck of the woods. I NEED a look at your boat please.....