Why live afloat?

[Erin42]

Hi! I would introduce myself in the "new to boating" thread but I'm not actually a boater, yet...

 

For a couple of years now I've wanted to live on a narrowboat. I've lived in London all my life and walk and cycle along the canals, I love them. I'm hoping to spend £10k on a boat that won't give me much trouble. Is this crazy? People spend a lot more on their boats, but I'm looking for something very small.

 

I work in film/tv, but at the entry level/graduate end of the industry I earn minimum wage and am beginning to resent the £500,over half my wages, I spend on rent in a small shared house.

 

If I could do something mad and fun and have the option of living in a bunch of different places as a continuous cruiser, for about the same price (spread over a couple of years) well... it just makes sense, doesn't it?

 

I've been reading stories and info for the last few months online, but I'd love to hear some opinions on why you chose to live afloat, and the difficulties someone in their 20's would face on a boat!

[RLWP]

Dying afloat would be very inconvenient

 

I'm afraid that £10K for a boat is crazy. As is hoping to live on a boat in London at the moment. As is hoping to make it work for £6k a year. It's becoming unclear if it is possible to be a continuous cruiser in London, CRT are looking very closely at this so don't be surprised if you start to live a very hectic life being regularly moved on

 

Richard

Edited August 25, 2013 by RLWP

[blackrose]

10 or 15 years ago you could have done it, but these days if you need to get to a place of work everyday then living as a continuous cruiser in and around London could be problematic. Also, I'm afraid that you're unlikely to find anything habitable on your budget. Sorry not to be more positive.

[Laurie Booth]

London will be a big problem. Do you work there?

[Athy]

Welcome, Erin!

There are indeed halfway decent boats available at around £10,000 but don't forget you'll need an annual licence (several hundred pounds, varies depending on length of boat), insurance (cheaper than for a car) and other expenses. Possibly - and I know this ain't what you want to hear - wait until you establish a little more seniority in your profession, with a concomitant increase in salary.

 

A marina mooring might be a possibility but oif course these cost money, plus you would have commuting costs. Whereabouts in London is your studio/ company?

 

Mike

[Caprifool]

I wouldn't let the black crows of doom bring me down ;-) Been looking around for a couple of years and followed others stories, who found what they wanted for around 10k. It won't be easy, but surely not impossible. Good luck!

[Erin42]

I wouldn't let the black crows of doom bring me down ;-) Been looking around for a couple of years and followed others stories, who found what they wanted for around 10k. It won't be easy, but surely not impossible. Good luck!

 

Yep I'm not looking for something easy, don't worry!

 

A friend of the family bought his boat for around £18k, and that had two double rooms on board and needed no refurbishments. I have two or three "friends of friends" who have bought narrowboats for £10k and done just fine, and have spoken to students living very cheap on the canals.

 

Thanks very much for the replies, though, whether good news or not, it's all good to hear. Those saying that I shouldn't get a boat for £10k, what would be the biggest problem? That the repairs it would need would end up costing more in the long run? Only asking because I see boats in my budget that claim to have a safety certificate for the next few years, etc. Does this not count for much?

 

Thanks so much for feedback, I'm enjoying reading through all of the posts on this forum

[Captain Zim]

I think it can be done. You might get more for your money with a different style of boat other than a narrowboat? Some GRP cruisers are very cheap and can be made very comfortable. It's not as cheap as everyone thinks but you'll still probably pay less than 500 quid and it will be yours. The only problem is the idea of living in london. If you don't mind cruising right out of town (still commutable) then its just possible but if you want to hang around in one or two parts of town I think things are going to get very difficult. For others reading this, I'm not saying its not legal, that is a huge debate for another time, I'm just giving an opinion on where I think things are heading. I might be totally wrong.

[Athy]

Let this "black crow of doom" (thanks, Capri) try again.

Erin, have you yet found the Apollo Duck web site? This has large numbers of boats advertised for sale. Put "Apollo Duck Narrowboat" into your search engine. When you get to the home page choose "advanced" and you will have the option of selecting a price range. Amongst the rusting crap offered for sale by no-hopers you'll surely find a nice clean tidy one which suits you.

 

Problem. It's in Doncaster.

 

Don't worry, AD have thought of that. You can select the area of the UK you want to look in. I can tell you for example that there's a sweet little Springer (a make of budget-priced boat built mainly in the '70s and '80s but still common today) on your patch , 27 feet long, £7,500.

 

Have a delve around and see what you can find!

[Erin42]

That's a great website, thanks! Found a bunch of boats under 10k that I would be pleased to call home, many around the £7,500 mark. So... what's the catch?? Can I really own a houseboat for around the same price as a years rent? (not counting running costs, of course)

 

Is it dangerous to buy a cheap boat? If its safety certificate is in order, is that good enough?

[Athy]

^{You will hear this mantra repeated many titles on this forum: "Get A Professional survey!" It will cost hundreds but could save you thousands. The safety cert. is a useful guideline, but you do need the survey.}

Edited August 25, 2013 by Athy

[BlueStringPudding]

Hi Erin,

 

The safety certificate is an MOT plus landlord safety cert - that's how I see it. They check there's enough ventilation and the gas system etc are safe. The safety certificate doesn't tell you if the hull is thin and it's likely to sink. It doesn't tell you if the engine works. It doesn't tell you if there's wood rot, or leaking plumbing, or leaking windows and so on.

 

In your budget you'd need to set aside some money for a survey, potential repairs before you can move aboard or at least live comfortably, (there's always some problems), possibly new batteries, and general maintenance costs that you would need to do every year.

 

Add to that the regular costs of diesel, gas, license, insurance and you'll start getting a better picture of what it would really cost you to live aboard. I recommend you do some good research and break down a budget for yourself. That way you know you're going into it with your eyes open.

[Erin42]

Thanks for the advice, that makes a lot of sense. I will definitely be setting aside a good chunk of money for a survey.

 

And I'm still very interested to hear from people why they wanted to live aboard in the first place, and how it has met their expectations!

[pquinn]

save yourself some money by gaining a bit of experience before you jump head,neck and heels.hire a boat,get a loan of a boat or volunteer.try to learn the basics first.

Thanks for the advice, that makes a lot of sense. I will definitely be setting aside a good chunk of money for a survey.

 

And I'm still very interested to hear from people why they wanted to live aboard in the first place, and how it has met their expectations!

bored in the house.needing a change of scenery.

[DeanS]

Hi Erin.

 

We live aboard You've answered your own question about "why". The answer is....why give your money to some property owner, when you can buy something that is YOURS. You can do what you like to it, and no one can tell you not to We are up north, so I cant help with any London info, but it seems that a lot of people your age might be thinking the same as you...and keeping yourself 100% legal by CC-ing, may need a lot of creativity and flexibility on your part.....mooring out of town, and catching the train (not cheap).

 

The boating lifestyle is relaxing...because water has a relaxing element to it....which is one reason I enjoy it so much.

[bottle]

 

And I'm still very interested to hear from people why they wanted to live aboard in the first place, and how it has met their expectations!

 

Because I did from the very first time I boarded a hire boat and yes it has lived up to my expectations.

 

Not very helpful but if you need to ask for a reason then the boating life is not for you.

 

Living aboard is a way of life, not just a financial decision

 

It was said many years ago and still holds some value that to run a narrowboat costs in the region of £5,000 a year.

 

That includes every thing though except your running costs, food transport etc

 

Others have warned of the probable problems of CCing in the Capital.

 

Sorry to be a pessimist but if you really want to do it, you will know, so good luck and when you are head of the BBC remember us, when on your yacht

 

[Erin42]

Hi Erin.

 

We live aboard You've answered your own question about "why". The answer is....why give your money to some property owner, when you can buy something that is YOURS. You can do what you like to it, and no one can tell you not to We are up north, so I cant help with any London info, but it seems that a lot of people your age might be thinking the same as you...and keeping yourself 100% legal by CC-ing, may need a lot of creativity and flexibility on your part.....mooring out of town, and catching the train (not cheap).

 

The boating lifestyle is relaxing...because water has a relaxing element to it....which is one reason I enjoy it so much.

 

People I've spoken to have said they pay for a license and just have to move every two weeks, but it looks like I'm going to be doing a lot more research into this... But yes I love the idea of owning something rather than just feeding money into a property I'm never going to own!

 

 

 

Because I did from the very first time I boarded a hire boat and yes it has lived up to my expectations.

 

Not very helpful but if you need to ask for a reason then the boating life is not for you.

 

Living aboard is a way of life, not just a financial decision

 

It was said many years ago and still holds some value that to run a narrowboat costs in the region of £5,000 a year.

 

That includes every thing though except your running costs, food transport etc

 

Others have warned of the probable problems of CCing in the Capital.

 

Sorry to be a pessimist but if you really want to do it, you will know, so good luck and when you are head of the BBC remember us, when on your yacht

 

 

I know why I want to live on a boat, I was just curious as to why other people have done it! I'm not looking for reasons, I have many of my own.

[narrowboatham]

 

Because I did from the very first time I boarded a hire boat and yes it has lived up to my expectations.

 

Not very helpful but if you need to ask for a reason then the boating life is not for you.

 

Living aboard is a way of life, not just a financial decision

 

It was said many years ago and still holds some value that to run a narrowboat costs in the region of £5,000 a year.

 

That includes every thing though except your running costs, food transport etc

 

Others have warned of the probable problems of CCing in the Capital.

 

Sorry to be a pessimist but if you really want to do it, you will know, so good luck and when you are head of the BBC remember us, when on your yacht

 

I'm interested in this topic, could you give a rough breakdown on where the £5k is spent please

[Delta9]

I moved aboard because I hate landlords, I hate landlord inspections and other people having access to my home. I want to be free to paint, put up shelves, keep pets or smoke in my own living space. I dislike noisy neighbours and crowded towns and interacting with other people. I like being able to get away from society when it is annoying me. I like having the option of moving to a different area if I want to without going through the hassle of moving house. I like living in small spaces. I like the ducks. I like being able to take my house to the pub when my friends visit and I like being around nature.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Delta9

[Ships Cat]

Your two weekly move has to be from one system to another, not just round the next corner. It could be a long way. And you can't do one move and then turn round and come back again. That's not CC'ing and your licence will say you're a CC'er. You'll have to research transport links every time you move to make sure you can get to work when you have.

 

You need to take the boat out of the water every 3-5 years for reblacking. £££

Boat safety cert ££ every 5 years - boat out of water for that so schedule with blacking.

You may need to replate the bottom if the hull gets too thin, cheap boats are cheap for a reason. ££££

A repaint if it's so bad you get incessant rust is £150 a foot. £££

Your boat licence ££

Your 'Gold licence' for CC'ing or just a few licences for systems you can maybe go round in a loop in ££ - £££

Your batteries will require you to visit a marina once a month for a good recharge, or you'll be buying new batteries £££ - ££££

Insurance ££

Fuel - a litre an hour, thereabouts, and you cruise 6 hours a day. ££ and may go up to full Derv prices if the EU get their way.

Maintenance - fuel pulp fails/water pump fails/prop shaft issue ££ - £££

 

It's not a cheap way of living.

 

If you fall ill, you need to find a GP and go as a temporary patient but you have to stay there if you need to see that Dr again.

It's bloody cold in winter. Insulation on NB's is pretty naff unless you put a LOT in and lose internal space.

There's nowhere to put a nice working wardrobe, plus normal clothes, unless you buy a big boat.

[i love my narrowboat]

Welcome to the forum, you will find a wealth of information on here, good luck with your search and heed the advice from the members who have lived afloat :-) they speak from experience. It is not a cheap way of living, but certainly a lovely life style. There is lots to take consideration of... Cost of boat, licence, insurance, maintenance, running costs, your own personal needs.

We have lived on our boat full time for just over 2 years and would not change it for anything.

[JDR]

I agree with many points of your post Ships Cat, except for the following......

 

Your two weekly move has to be from one system to another,

 

S17 S3 of the 1995 British Waterways act does not mention moving to another system every 14 days. It does not even define the distance required of a move which is the cause of infinite debate on here and is IMHO simultaneously the biggest strength and weakness of the legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1995/1/section/17/enacted

 

A repaint if it's so bad you get incessant rust is £150 a foot. £££

 

This would equate to £9k for a 60ft NB which would be the very top end of professional painters. You could DIY it for a lot less than £1K or a middle priced paintjob would be a lot less, more like £100/ft or less.

 

Boat safety cert ££ every 5 years - boat out of water for that so schedule with blacking.

 

Every 4 years and boat doesn't need to be out of the water

 

Your 'Gold licence' for CC'ing or just a few licences for systems you can maybe go round in a loop in ££ - £££

 

Gold licence is only required if you intend to spend time on EA controlled waters- Eg: Non tidal Thames, River Gt Ouse etc.

For shorter visits/transits visitor licences are available.

 

Your batteries will require you to visit a marina once a month for a good recharge, or you'll be buying new batteries £££ - ££££

Insurance ££

 

Absolutely no need to visit a marina to recharge batteries. If you have solar they be fully charged for most of the summer or a genny or engine can be used in winter/ in times of low sunlight or use the boat to go boating.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2013 by JDR

[Duchess Omnium]

Hi, Erin,

 

It's great you have found some boats that seem to fit your budget, and you have taken aboard (as it were) the need to get a survey. Also remember to be very careful to check ownership of the boat, especially if it looks a really good deal. I have some friends who bought a boat at a great price, and though the boat wasn't exactly stolen, it turned out it wasn't the guy's to sell -- he was part of a divorcing couple and the property settlement wasn't complete. My friends lost their money and the boat.

 

As others have warned, I think you have to accept that you probably won't be able to live on the boat for less than you are now paying in rent (£500 a month). If you have a full time job you are going to find it very difficult to meet the continuous cruising requirements. CART are cracking down on boats without home moorings and enforcing frequent movements and significant distances, with no return to previous moorings in 28 days, etc. None of this has been fully tested in court, and there is a lot of controversy about it, but I think it is a fair bet that in the near future, if they find you shuffling back and forth over a five mile distance in the London area you will find yourself in a constant battle, endlessly fighting overstay notices and threatening letters -- maybe not what you thought was waiting for you on the canal. You will probably win some of the battles, but the war might not be worth it.

 

A compromise might be to get a winter mooring so you can relax November-March and manage your moves (and inevitable longer commutes to work) when the days are longer and the weather (hopefully) better. But even winter moorings are now included in the auction system, and I am guessing that in London they will be pretty pricey.

 

With license, insurance, winter mooring fees, diesel, coal, and maintenance, I think you will be well above £500/month.

 

Without a winter mooring, the diesel will be much more expensive, as will your commute. Even so, you will probably pay less than £500/month -- as long as you don't end up in court, or with a pile of overstay fines.

 

As for why I am living aboard, I'm into my 5th year, and have not regretted it. I bought a narrowboat when I decided it was time to sell the house in the lovely village I had lived in for 25 years. For some reason I thought my only possible consolation would be to buy a boat. I knew nothing about boats, narrow or otherwise.

 

The one decision I did make was that I wasn't going to buy one and then never move it, and I have kept to that decision. I have twice taken it through every lock on the Thames, up to Lechlade and down to London, along the Grand Union, the Regents, and out at Limehouse, as well as shorter cruises on the Oxford Canal. I usually only move it with crew, but I can and do also move it on my own. Cruising is great fun. So is getting home to my own space with my towpath garden.

 

If you are a cc'er you will need to be confident driving the boat on your own. On your budget, it will probably be a small boat, so at least no worries there.

 

Good luck!

 

Duchess

[parrotguy]

Are you some what on the tough side and not easily frightened when things go bad; groundings, taking on water, fires,etc? Can you work with small tools and fiqure out small mechanical problems? If so and you dont mind living alone, go for it. You sound young and so you have time to make mistakes. But the fewer mistakes one makes in life the better off.

[Athy]

when things go bad; groundings, taking on water, fires,etc?

Gosh Mr. Parrot, your boating life sounds exciting! Remind me not to work through any locks with you.