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cotswoldsman

Visitor Mooring Survey

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No river thames in the list

 

ETA hangs on the exit from the page with the navigations list if yo put thames in other.

Edited by Loddon

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I have had training in research methods, yes. This was a bit of a rush job, I admit, as it was done in my spare time. I hope we've found a good balance though. I hope people also appreciate the value of 'qualitative' answers too - they will all be analysed and included in the final report smile.png

I found it very useful and thank you. I was replying to the poster who obviously hadn't read that you had training. Personally I prefer to be sure of my facts before I make sweeping statements.

 

Thank you for your efforts on our behalf (our being all boaters).

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Is the river Thames not EA?

 

I included the Thames at the very bottom as 'Non-CRT waterways (e..g River Thames)'

 

Hope that helps :)

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Didn't the thank you page say that one of them was trained in such matters?

 

What makes you think CRT would draw up unbiased surveys?

I have given an example of one question that demonstrates bias. Analyse the others and you may find others.

 

I have no idea if CRT would produce unbiased surveys but they run our waterways and can face the consequences.

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Also completed without a problem. Thanks also to everyone involved in this.

Fred

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I have given an example of one question that demonstrates bias. Analyse the others and you may find others.

 

I have no idea if CRT would produce unbiased surveys but they run our waterways and can face the consequences.

The answer is in post 45, in case you missed it.

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I have given an example of one question that demonstrates bias. Analyse the others and you may find others.

 

I have no idea if CRT would produce unbiased surveys but they run our waterways and can face the consequences.

You are wrong because doing second tier Visitor Moorings is something that was discussed with CRT and they actually did not dismiss the idea and thought it might be a good idea so we have asked the question to see if boaters think it is a good idea people at the meeting welcomed any new ideas. I will say it again we have no agenda here other than to get feedback to give to CRT.

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I am not sure about the lack of bias. Take for example, the question:

 

Please read the following and indicate below how you feel about it.

 

The Canal and River Trust could create new, basic, Visitor Moorings by providing mooring rings, ensuring depth at the bank, mowing the vegetation and erecting signage.

 

At first glance, the obvious answer is yes, but take this in the context of the fact that CRT funds are desperately needed for waterway maintenance. Having contractors do dredging and install rings is extremely expensive. A better and much cheaper alternative might be to restrict visitor moorings to 24 hours so that they can be used by more boaters.

 

I strongly suggest that if we are to have surveys they should be done by the Canal & River Trust, compiled by people who have been trained in composing unbiased questions, and done using security that prevents the results being manipulated.

 

Surely the whole reason behind this survey, and all the work than John & Co are putting in, is that many boaters feel that CaRT are not willing or able to run a good unbiassed survey. There is lots of evidence that they have been rather biassed in analysing their survey results. Look at all the threads on this forum about the S.E. Moorings consultation. Its not really CaRTs fault, they are a big corporate organisation and so make their own internal decisions and then use surveys and consultations to somehow justify that decision. This odd behaviour is endemic in big organisations and its difficult to change, but John is trying and we want to help.

 

...............Dave

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The answer is in post 45, in case you missed it.

That's great if you can get councils to pay for facilities and not incur costs for CRT. Dredging is very expensive if needed.

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It's such a good survey I've filled it in twice - once on a laptop and once on a tablet. Don't let NBW get wind of this!

 

Seriously, shouldn't this be prevented?

 

No it should not be prevented - I have completed it twice as I do two different types of boating. I have completed it once to reflect our use of the canals on our own boat and then a second time to reflect our use of the canals when crewing a historic boat. There are quite big differences between what we are looking for in a mooring depending which boat we are on.

 

One thing that is more important than anything else when we are on the historic boat is depth of water and yet when we are on our own modern boat that is something we rarey have to consider.

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You are wrong because doing second tier Visitor Moorings is something that was discussed with CRT and they actually did not dismiss the idea and thought it might be a good idea so we have asked the question to see if boaters think it is a good idea people at the meeting welcomed any new ideas. I will say it again we have no agenda here other than to get feedback to give to CRT.

With respect, how am I supposed to know about this? I don't recall seeing this on the CRT website or in the canal magazines. If someone wants to do the executive summary of what is posted on this site, I might read that.

 

Nothing personal, but I want to see our waterways run by CRT in consultation with organisations with a responsibility for representing their members' views in a democratic way. In my view, much of the hassle with non-compliant continuous cruisers is thanks to control freaks trying to take charge. Anyone who wants to support our waterways needs to rise above those who are not constructive and even make potentially libelous comments here and on narrowboatworld.

 

I'm a member of various organisations, and I entrust them to represent my views. I can read their minutes and get involved. If you want to set up a new organisation I can look at the aims and decide whether or not to join it. I can think of two organisations that have taken up the issue of the proposed duty on diesel. I wonder if anyone on this forum has done more than bellyache about the proposal.

 

That's my input for the moment. I have to work on an application for a grant for waterway funding, in preparation for a meeting with CRT etc.

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With respect, how am I supposed to know about this? I don't recall seeing this on the CRT website or in the canal magazines. If someone wants to do the executive summary of what is posted on this site, I might read that.

 

Nothing personal, but I want to see our waterways run by CRT in consultation with organisations with a responsibility for representing their members' views in a democratic way. In my view, much of the hassle with non-compliant continuous cruisers is thanks to control freaks trying to take charge. Anyone who wants to support our waterways needs to rise above those who are not constructive and even make potentially libelous comments here and on narrowboatworld.

 

I'm a member of various organisations, and I entrust them to represent my views. I can read their minutes and get involved. If you want to set up a new organisation I can look at the aims and decide whether or not to join it. I can think of two organisations that have taken up the issue of the proposed duty on diesel. I wonder if anyone on this forum has done more than bellyache about the proposal.

 

That's my input for the moment. I have to work on an application for a grant for waterway funding, in preparation for a meeting with CRT etc.

Good luck with your application for Funding.

We live in a very democratic world and I respect your views. I and a few others just might not think having a few organisations such as the IWA trying to influence policy is a good thing. You say you want the waterways run in a democratic way (not many would argue with that) but then you go and spoil that statement by saying you want it run by the organisation you happen to be a member off. What about the rest of us.So you are saying that Non Compliant Continuous Cruising problems is caused by the type of organisation you belong to that is trying to take over and control things well I wish you would stop encouraging boaters to be non compliant and tell your organisation by doing this they are upsetting a lot of boaters.

Anyway back to the survey the numbers are jumping up and thank you everyone that has entered into the spirit of what we are trying to do

  • Greenie 1

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I have commenced filling in the survey several times, but like all such things it only allows you to answer in the way that the survey commissioner want to receive answers. That is not a complaint, merely an observation, The problem is that some of the the questions over simplify the response, particulary where information is sought regarding availability of CRT moorings, as the question seeks only the outcome on the last occassion, In most instances the last attempt to secure a mooring will have been successful, but that gives no account of how many unsuccessful attempts were previously experienced and therefore the survey answer produces an inaccurate and biased impression of the actual situation.

 

I will give an example, on our last trip we cruised four canals over a period of eleven days:-

 

On the Grand Union there were no short term moorings and only two fourteen day visitor moorings vacant, both in a loction where I know it is far too shallow for us (and most other boats) to get anywhere near the bank,

 

On the Northern Oxford all the (many) fourteen day moorings were occupied by boats which had either been left, or were being lived upon. I believe there are a few 24 hour moorings near Tescos in Rugby but these are nearly always fully occupied.

 

On the Coventry there are a number of seven day moorings where there were a few spaces, mainly a good walk from facilities.

 

On the Ashby there are no moorings which permit more than a forty eight hour stay, and finding a mooring was never a problem.

 

Apart from the other comments box at the nd of the questionaire, the survey does not offer any facility where more than the most minimal amount of information can be collated, and my perception is that the survey is constructed in a way that lends itself far more towards the boater who moves perhaps only every few days (or weeks), rather than every day together with a lunchtime stop as well. That risks making the results unrepresentative of the true experience of many boaters.

 

I may make a further attempt to complete the survey, but I hope the comments box will be big enough to accomodate my observations.

  • Greenie 1

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I am not sure about the lack of bias. Take for example, the question:

 

Please read the following and indicate below how you feel about it.

 

The Canal and River Trust could create new, basic, Visitor Moorings by providing mooring rings, ensuring depth at the bank, mowing the vegetation and erecting signage.

 

At first glance, the obvious answer is yes, but take this in the context of the fact that CRT funds are desperately needed for waterway maintenance. Having contractors do dredging and install rings is extremely expensive. A better and much cheaper alternative might be to restrict visitor moorings to 24 hours so that they can be used by more boaters.

 

I strongly suggest that if we are to have surveys they should be done by the Canal & River Trust, compiled by people who have been trained in composing unbiased questions, and done using security that prevents the results being manipulated.

I do not agree the obvious answer is "yes", I answered "no". I do not understand why some boaters need mooring rings, cut back vegetation and to be perfectly aligned with the bank when they moor. My fear is that the Trust will keep providing VMs and it will become an expectation that boaters moor on them exclusively. Rather like the Shroppie where most of the beautiful lengths have become 48hr VMs with no consultation that I am aware of.

 

Val

  • Greenie 1

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I have commenced filling in the survey several times, but like all such things it only allows you to answer in the way that the survey commissioner want to receive answers. That is not a complaint, merely an observation, The problem is that some of the the questions over simplify the response, particulary where information is sought regarding availability of CRT moorings, as the question seeks only the outcome on the last occassion, In most instances the last attempt to secure a mooring will have been successful, but that gives no account of how many unsuccessful attempts were previously experienced and therefore the survey answer produces an inaccurate and biased impression of the actual situation.

 

I will give an example, on our last trip we cruised four canals over a period of eleven days:-

 

On the Grand Union there were no short term moorings and only two fourteen day visitor moorings vacant, both in a loction where I know it is far too shallow for us (and most other boats) to get anywhere near the bank,

 

On the Northern Oxford all the (many) fourteen day moorings were occupied by boats which had either been left, or were being lived upon. I believe there are a few 24 hour moorings near Tescos in Rugby but these are nearly always fully occupied.

 

On the Coventry there are a number of seven day moorings where there were a few spaces, mainly a good walk from facilities.

 

On the Ashby there are no moorings which permit more than a forty eight hour stay, and finding a mooring was never a problem.

 

Apart from the other comments box at the nd of the questionaire, the survey does not offer any facility where more than the most minimal amount of information can be collated, and my perception is that the survey is constructed in a way that lends itself far more towards the boater who moves perhaps only every few days (or weeks), rather than every day together with a lunchtime stop as well. That risks making the results unrepresentative of the true experience of many boaters.

 

I may make a further attempt to complete the survey, but I hope the comments box will be big enough to accomodate my observations.

Most of the survey has comment boxes marked (other please specify) you do make a good point that maybe we need to be clearer that that is also a comments box

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I have commenced filling in the survey several times, but like all such things it only allows you to answer in the way that the survey commissioner want to receive answers. That is not a complaint, merely an observation, The problem is that some of the the questions over simplify the response, particulary where information is sought regarding availability of CRT moorings, as the question seeks only the outcome on the last occassion, In most instances the last attempt to secure a mooring will have been successful, but that gives no account of how many unsuccessful attempts were previously experienced and therefore the survey answer produces an inaccurate and biased impression of the actual situation.

 

I will give an example, on our last trip we cruised four canals over a period of eleven days:-

 

On the Grand Union there were no short term moorings and only two fourteen day visitor moorings vacant, both in a loction where I know it is far too shallow for us (and most other boats) to get anywhere near the bank,

 

On the Northern Oxford all the (many) fourteen day moorings were occupied by boats which had either been left, or were being lived upon. I believe there are a few 24 hour moorings near Tescos in Rugby but these are nearly always fully occupied.

 

On the Coventry there are a number of seven day moorings where there were a few spaces, mainly a good walk from facilities.

 

On the Ashby there are no moorings which permit more than a forty eight hour stay, and finding a mooring was never a problem.

 

Apart from the other comments box at the nd of the questionaire, the survey does not offer any facility where more than the most minimal amount of information can be collated, and my perception is that the survey is constructed in a way that lends itself far more towards the boater who moves perhaps only every few days (or weeks), rather than every day together with a lunchtime stop as well. That risks making the results unrepresentative of the true experience of many boaters.

 

I may make a further attempt to complete the survey, but I hope the comments box will be big enough to accomodate my observations.

I would say that no such survey can successfully gather a full picture of what is in one's mind. It inevitably has to be simplified to make the data collatable and not just a series of comments. By picking on only the last visit to a VM, the survey captures a snapshot and whilst for many this will have been a succesful visit, for a few it wont have been and this ratio represents a valid picture of how easy it is to arrive at a VM and get a space. We will all have been to VMs and not found space at some point, these tend to stick in ones mind more than those times when space was found, so if the survey asked for a subjective opinion about VM availability I think it would be less accurate and coloured by the vagaries of the human mind.

 

As for John being a control freak (mango), of course he his! - but that is a GOOD THING!

Edited by nicknorman

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it returns to the beginning when i get to - When did you last try to moor at an official Canal & River Trust (CRT) Visitor Mooring?, i tried 4 times and gave up, any suggestions?

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it returns to the beginning when i get to - When did you last try to moor at an official Canal & River Trust (CRT) Visitor Mooring?, i tried 4 times and gave up, any suggestions?

Was it full? ;-)

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