Bmc 1500 Horsepower?

[alvicchas1]

Hi All,

 

Yesterday, whilst chatting with another boater I was asked the horsepower of my BMC 1500. I had to admit I didn't know. Later I perused the manual and general info and couldn't find HP stated. Does anyone know!?

 

Thanks

[RLWP]

No idea. More than enough is the short answer

 

Richard

[alvicchas1]

No idea. More than enough is the short answer

 

Richard

Hi, That really wasn't the question - whether the HP was more than enough would surely depend on the size of the boat.

[RLWP]

After extensive research, Wikipedia has:

 

There was also a diesel version of this engine size. Power output was 40 bhp (30 kW) at 4,000 rpm and torque 64 lbf·ft at 1,900 rpm.

 

If I owned a boat with a 1.5, I'm not sure what i would do with that information

 

Richard

Edited August 4, 2013 by RLWP

[trackman]

That sounds a lot. I always understood the 1.8 on a previous boat we had was 30hp. I would have expected the 1.5 to be lower.

The Wikipedia reference surely refers to road versions of the engine. Marinised engines are usually significantly down rated aren't they?

Calcutt will know the true figure for their versions, which will be pretty typical I guess.

[Tony Brooks]

I would say 30 to 35 BHP would be about right but then the true figure depends upon the revs.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Tony Brooks

[RLWP]

That sounds a lot. I always understood the 1.8 on a previous boat we had was 30hp. I would have expected the 1.5 to be lower.

The Wikipedia reference surely refers to road versions of the engine. Marinised engines are usually significantly down rated aren't they?

Calcutt will know the true figure for their versions, which will be pretty typical I guess.

 

If you are up for some fun - which vehicle used the BMC 1.5 diesel?

 

Richard

[arbutus]

I had a CT Marine 1.5 BMC in my first Narrowboat.

 

From the spec. sheet it had

Maximum BHP intermittent 39 at 3500 rpm

Maximum BHP Continuous 30 at 3000 rpm

Maximum engine torque 59 ib. ft. at 2500 rpm

 

From the torque and BHP curves, at a cruising rpm of 1500 it has 15 bhp and 50 ft. lb. torque. At 2000 rpm it’s about 22 bhp and 57 lb. ft.

 

Hope this helps!

[trackman]

Excellent question, but that still doesn't affect my point about the 1.8 we had. Was my understanding of its power all wrong?

 

Edited to add: this crossed with a post that appears to answer that nicely! Just confirms how misleading HP figures can be then, when considering performance in a boat.

From comparison of my current boat with a 30 HP engine and the one with the BMC 1.8, most would say the former is far more "powerful" when the real issue is the far superior torque of the latter.

Edited August 4, 2013 by trackman

[RLWP]

So, 40bhp at 4000rpm is right then

 

Richard

Excellent question, but that still doesn't affect my point about the 1.8 we had. Was my understanding of its power all wrong?

 

No, I suspect the answer lies in the figures that Arbutus has posted. There is a continuous rating and an intermittent rating. Wikipedia is probably quoting the intermittent figure, you are quoting the continuous

 

Richard

[trackman]

Just for interest, after Richard's query re car use, I did some quick research.

The oldclassiccars forum suggests that the diesel 1.5 appeared in the Farina Morris Oxford/Austin Cambridge in the mid 1960s. This was the car on which I learned to drive, but my Dad's Cambridge had the 1622cc (as I recall) petrol engine.

I also found a YouTube clip of an alleged Morris Marina 1.5 diesel engine. This was out of the car and so I'm unsure of its provenance.

[alan_fincher]

The BMC engines are usually quoted with significantly lower powers in narrow boat use than they would have had as (say) vehicle engines.

 

I think Calcutt tended to quote 36HP a 3000 RPM for the 1.8, and a bit less than that for a 1.5, (but it is somewhere usually in Tony' 30 to 35 figure, whoever marinised it).

 

However when the 1800 was used in the Shrpa van, the marketing info give it as 52 BHP, but at 4,250 RPM.

 

If you are up for some fun - which vehicle used the BMC 1.5 diesel?

 

Richard

 

Has anybody answered?

1500 - The J4 Van
1800 - The Sherpa Van

I'm not convinced either ever used in production BMC cars, but am happy to be proved wrong.

It is a popular myth they were taxi engines - they were not - this is the quite different 2.2 and 2. engines.

[RLWP]

I was surprised how few vehicles used the 1.5. It seems possible that there are as many built as marine engines as vehicle ones

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

I was surprised how few vehicles used the 1.5. It seems possible that there are as many built as marine engines as vehicle ones

 

Richard

Past debate on this suggested the BMC B Series diesels (1500 & 1800) have been used new in some or all the following applications.....

 

Vans

Marine engines

Certain small tractors

Generator sets - with a suggestion there may have been MOD ones

To drive the refrigerator on trucks with, errm, refrigerators.

 

I have never been able to turn up very much on the latter two though.

 

I have often wondered how so many have been freely available for marinisation over the years, given some apparent uncertainty about what all the original applications were.

 

 

[peterboat]

Hi I drove a morris oxford with a 1500 diesel in it I can safely say that it could not pull the skin off a rice pudding!! Also I was a gennie mechanic in the forces and never saw a BM

C powered gennie. We also had a 1800cc diesel sherpa on trial as a minibus Luckily we never bought that version instead they plumped for the more powerfull petrol version which could at least pull a full load of passengers

 

Peter

[RLWP]

Past debate on this suggested the BMC B Series diesels (1500 & 1800) have been used new in some or all the following applications.....

 

Vans

Marine engines

Certain small tractors

Generator sets - with a suggestion there may have been MOD ones

To drive the refrigerator on trucks with, errm, refrigerators.

 

I have never been able to turn up very much on the latter two though.

 

I have often wondered how so many have been freely available for marinisation over the years, given some apparent uncertainty about what all the original applications were.

 

 

 

I suppose if we were serious about this, we would approach the museum at Gaydon. I believe they hold the production records

 

Richard

Hi I drove a morris oxford with a 1500 diesel in it I can safely say that it could not pull the skin off a rice pudding!!

Peter

 

Yes, it doesn't seem to be a successful vehicle engine. And yet there are a lot of marinised versions

 

Richard

[peterboat]

Hi I suspect that a large amount of these diesels were produced and when they didnt sell for the motor industry they sold them cheap to the boat industry! My friend David beresfords father worked for BMC and then Leyland Daf in fact he designed the 400 Sherpa. After chatting to David (he also worked for leyland) he says he cant remember many sherpas escaping as diesels!! and the 1500 bmc tractor was a toy one! They still have one at the garage for cutting grass.

 

Peter

[Tony Brooks]

The "toy" tractor in the BMC range was a 998cc Horticultural tractor. I have never seen a 998cc BMC Diesel but I understand a hire fleet on the Mon & Brec used them.

 

In the 70s I went for an interview for a mechanic at a company in Reading. They had stacks of BMC 1.5s coupled to all sorts of equipment and told me may of their products went abroad where they ran 24/ for month on end with a mechanic only flying in every few weeks to change the oil and refuel. I think may were supplied as industrial engines. I understand from Calcutt that industrial variants had their own engine number system and some had different rear main oil sealing using a thrower and scroll rather than a lip seal.

 

I can confirm the 1.5 diesel was used in Austin A 60s and in that case almost certainly Morris Oxfords with a view of supplying them for taxi work. I am not sure that they were not fitted in later J2 vans as well as Nuffield tractors.

[RLWP]

I believe that 998cc BMC diesel is actually based on the A-series. I've Googled that one in the past

 

The thrower and scroll/labyrinth seal is also what the A series got. Having never looked, I'm surprised the B-series didn't get that as standard

 

Richard

Edited August 6, 2013 by RLWP

[churchward]

The "toy" tractor in the BMC range was a 998cc Horticultural tractor. I have never seen a 998cc BMC Diesel but I understand a hire fleet on the Mon & Brec used them.

 

In the 70s I went for an interview for a mechanic at a company in Reading. They had stacks of BMC 1.5s coupled to all sorts of equipment and told me may of their products went abroad where they ran 24/ for month on end with a mechanic only flying in every few weeks to change the oil and refuel. I think may were supplied as industrial engines. I understand from Calcutt that industrial variants had their own engine number system and some had different rear main oil sealing using a thrower and scroll rather than a lip seal.

 

I can confirm the 1.5 diesel was used in Austin A 60s and in that case almost certainly Morris Oxfords with a view of supplying them for taxi work. I am not sure that they were not fitted in later J2 vans as well as Nuffield tractors.

I remember them in Oxfords and A60s. A friend of mine had an A55/60 van with in but I can't remember if that was a swap or original. It was a gutless wonder though particularly when loaded up with Disco gear and 3 blokes.

 

I saw one in a Morris Minor saloon in Malta years ago but that was definitly not original equipment. Other than that was what was to hand I can't think why you would want to do that. A very heavy engine (compared to the A series) and not that easy to slot in. I helped a friend put a petrol B series in a minor traveller (1800cc) it is a bit too long so some mods had to be made and a thinner radiator (from a Metro or Alegro I think). It was seriously front heavy and even with modified springs and dampers and an anti roll bar on the front it had a tendency to go straight on if you pushed too hard when turning.

 

It wasn't that fast either. An A series modified is better in a minor and can be tuned to produce similar power to a std B series without any real loss of flexibility or too much expense.

[peterboat]

The "toy" tractor in the BMC range was a 998cc Horticultural tractor. I have never seen a 998cc BMC Diesel but I understand a hire fleet on the Mon & Brec used them.

 

In the 70s I went for an interview for a mechanic at a company in Reading. They had stacks of BMC 1.5s coupled to all sorts of equipment and told me may of their products went abroad where they ran 24/ for month on end with a mechanic only flying in every few weeks to change the oil and refuel. I think may were supplied as industrial engines. I understand from Calcutt that industrial variants had their own engine number system and some had different rear main oil sealing using a thrower and scroll rather than a lip seal.

 

I can confirm the 1.5 diesel was used in Austin A 60s and in that case almost certainly Morris Oxfords with a view of supplying them for taxi work. I am not sure that they were not fitted in later J2 vans as well as Nuffield tractors.

You could be right his dad had a lot of tractors so it would have been a nuffield they also had a petrol paraffin which dave and I used to play with

 

Peter

I remember them in Oxfords and A60s. A friend of mine had an A55/60 van with in but I can't remember if that was a swap or original. It was a gutless wonder though particularly when loaded up with Disco gear and 3 blokes.

 

I saw one in a Morris Minor saloon in Malta years ago but that was definitly not original equipment. Other than that was what was to hand I can't think why you would want to do that. A very heavy engine (compared to the A series) and not that easy to slot in. I helped a friend put a petrol B series in a minor traveller (1800cc) it is a bit too long so some mods had to be made and a thinner radiator (from a Metro or Alegro I think). It was seriously front heavy and even with modified springs and dampers and an anti roll bar on the front it had a tendency to go straight on if you pushed too hard when turning.

 

It wasn't that fast either. An A series modified is better in a minor and can be tuned to produce similar power to a std B series without any real loss of flexibility or too much expense.

Or better still the 2 litre twin cam fiat unit or now days the zetec engine both are light and powerful

 

 

Peter

[TNLI]

On 04/08/2013 at 16:16, arbutus said:

I had a CT Marine 1.5 BMC in my first Narrowboat.

 

From the spec. sheet it had

Maximum BHP intermittent 39 at 3500 rpm

Maximum BHP Continuous 30 at 3000 rpm

Maximum engine torque 59 ib. ft. at 2500 rpm

 

From the torque and BHP curves, at a cruising rpm of 1500 it has 15 bhp and 50 ft. lb. torque. At 2000 rpm it’s about 22 bhp and 57 lb. ft.

 

Hope this helps!

BINGO! I've been looking for that figure for a while, as it's not in any manual I could find. I do know that that type of marine diesel puts out a max of 10hp per cylinder, so it's 40hp minus gearbox loss. 

  Rather surprised to read 6 incorrect or irrelevant answers before a real class act in reply quality terms!

Edited July 8, 2021 by TNLI
additional sentence at end

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, TNLI said:

Rather surprised to read 6 incorrect or irrelevant answers before a real class act in reply quality terms!

 

Well as a brand new member I can tell you that you need to get used to a bit of banter as we go along.

 

Well done in finding what you wanted in an 8 year old thread though.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, TNLI said:

BINGO! I've been looking for that figure for a while, as it's not in any manual I could find. I do know that that type of marine diesel puts out a max of 10hp per cylinder, so it's 40hp minus gearbox loss. 

  Rather surprised to read 6 incorrect or irrelevant answers before a real class act in reply quality terms!

 

Seems you don't get discussion forums. Threads wander according to the interests of the members replying. Forums are not designed to allow one person to get authoritative answers to their specific question, although they will usually get that answer if they are willing to assist by answering questions.

 

I have been back through the thread but can't find six incorrect answers. As someone said, "what are you going to do with that information?" The raw bhp as stated is not a lot of use to you because for marine use there are usually two BHP figures given. A maximum and a continuous, guess what - they are different and at different revs. Exactly as the post before yours. So whoever said it depends on the revs was correct. Prop and use the maximum power long term and you are likely to run into reliability problems. There is also a question over the engine mariniser reducing the maximum fuel delivery in the injection pump to limit the maximum power in the interests of reliability. Over the years there must have been hundreds of marinisers ranging from large companies like the official BMC marinisers like Tempest and Newage, through large independents like Thornecroft and Calcutt to a host of "freds in sheds" doing a bit of DIY.

 

The next consideration is how are you propping your boat, for maximum power or maximum economy. For maximum economy, the prop is likely to be specified to absorb maximum torque so you can never reach the maximum quoted BHP.

 

Interesting that you got  a reply from a number of respected engineers who tried to help but you dismiss their efforts. If you want that sort of information in that form maybe you should simply ring Calcutt Boats and ask them or buy a manual.

 

Edited to add, it is even possible that the hire fleets further de-rated their pumps to limit the boat speed/power available to unknown hirers.

 

Also, edited to add: I would also question your belief that "that type of marine diesel puts out a max of 10hp per cylinder". A BMC 1.5 and a BMC 1.8 use almost the same block, head and injection equipment yet one is 200CC larger and produces more power. A Bukh DV 36 is very broadly comparable with a BMC 1.5 yet the Bukh only has three cylinders. Then we have the four cylinder BMC 3.x that is still a four cylinder but has over twice the capacity of the BMC 1.5.

 

Then you assume the gearbox losses come into the quoted HP. That would be shaft horsepower, not brake horsepower. BHP is measured at the flywheel and unless you know the standard to which the test was conducted may or may not include the alternator load loss and in the case of some marine engines the losses associated with the raw water pump.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[cuthound]

According to The Boat Listing on CanalPlanA, several develop 999hp. 😁😂🤣