It Wasn't Meant To End Like This

[Scholar Gypsy]

Ditto our Mitsubishi: we added an extra filter between the tank and the pump (electric Vetus, with its own filter inside, so we now have three fuel filters..).

 

I have been musing for a while about the practicality of installing a permanent fuel polishing circuit - for example a second pump pumping fuel through a filter (or maybe just a sedinenter) and then back into the other half of the tank (my tank is in two halves, with the filler on the left side and the fuel takeoff on the right). Not sure what a boat safety examiner would make of that...

[Timleech]

Ditto our Mitsubishi: we added an extra filter between the tank and the pump (electric Vetus, with its own filter inside, so we now have three fuel filters..).

 

I have been musing for a while about the practicality of installing a permanent fuel polishing circuit - for example a second pump pumping fuel through a filter (or maybe just a sedinenter) and then back into the other half of the tank (my tank is in two halves, with the filler on the left side and the fuel takeoff on the right). Not sure what a boat safety examiner would make of that...

 

I can't see they would have any problem with it providing all the pipework and filters complied.

I'm not an examiner, though.

 

Tim

[Doorman]

 

I have been musing for a while about the practicality of installing a permanent fuel polishing circuit - for example a second pump pumping fuel through a filter (or maybe just a sedinenter) and then back into the other half of the tank (my tank is in two halves, with the filler on the left side and the fuel takeoff on the right). Not sure what a boat safety examiner would make of that...

I think that's a great idea and have been looking at a similar proposition using additional filters and a pump solely for this purpose. A company called MLS do a system that cleanses the fuel without a filter that would be worth considering. Not cheap, but then as Dr Bradley has found out, breaking down whilst on an estuary or tidal river is a costly situation too.

[Teadaemon]

Maybe the easiest but not the best. Better to have some knowledge of basic navigation, chart work and rudimentary seamanship, and only then to consider using GPS. However, for one off trips it might be more sensible to employ the services of someone who knows what they are about, that is a local pilot.

 

Howard

I agree, it's not a good idea to rely on GPS or any other electronic systems, however in practise that's what a lot of people do, even if they're also regularly marking their position on the chart and have worked out the necessary info to make port if the electronics fail.

[ditchcrawler]

No, not all. I have helped other boaters out in the past with engine problems and noticed that the fuel pump has been installed with its intake straight from the tank. In fact, the installation manual with our Fischer-Panda genset illustrates this very same procedure.

 

That's Germans for you! :-)

My BD3 the fuel pump feeds the filters, I have however mounted a filter/water trap between the tank and pump.

 

I can't see they would have any problem with it providing all the pipework and filters complied.

I'm not an examiner, though.

 

Tim

http://www.asap-supplies.com/file_uploads/pdf/ASAP_Supplies_Basic_fuel_polishing_system.pdf

[J R ALSOP]

Recently cut two 100mm holes either side of a cruiser style back decked narrowboat, got two buckets of crap out, welding stubs, mill scale, sludge etc, the pick up pipe was some 100mm from the bottom, no amount of fuel polishing would have shifted that lot. The boat was 20years old.

[Teadaemon]

Ditto our Mitsubishi: we added an extra filter between the tank and the pump (electric Vetus, with its own filter inside, so we now have three fuel filters..).

 

I have been musing for a while about the practicality of installing a permanent fuel polishing circuit - for example a second pump pumping fuel through a filter (or maybe just a sedinenter) and then back into the other half of the tank (my tank is in two halves, with the filler on the left side and the fuel takeoff on the right). Not sure what a boat safety examiner would make of that...

 

Providing the filters and pipework are of the appropriate specification, it's all mounted securely, and none of the joints leak, I can't see a problem with a fuel-polishing circuit. Lots of seagoing vessels have that or something similar that allows them to switch between two fuel filters while the engine(s) are running - so if the engine does stop due to a blocked filter, you can switch to the other one, start it up again, and you're not drifting around without propulsion while you change the clogged filter (assuming it takes longer for a filter to clog than it does to change a filter).

[howardang]

I agree, it's not a good idea to rely on GPS or any other electronic systems, however in practise that's what a lot of people do, even if they're also regularly marking their position on the chart and have worked out the necessary info to make port if the electronics fail.

It might be what a lot of people do but that doesn't make it good practice. I still maintain that it is not sensible to rely solely on GPS, which is what I thought you were originally suggesting, but to get some knowledge of the basics first, and then I'm all for using any form of navigational aid that is available because they will then have the basic knowledge which might mean the difference between a relatively uneventful trip and potential problems!

 

Howard

[Doorman]

My BD3 the fuel pump feeds the filters, I have however mounted a filter/water trap between the tank and pump.

http://www.asap-supplies.com/file_uploads/pdf/ASAP_Supplies_Basic_fuel_polishing_system.pdf

Thanks for the link!

 

A relatively simple set-up that no doubt could be improved upon with some more thought. Definitely something I shall be doing in the future. I notice that their filter incorporates a glass bowl which for some obscure reason is not allowed on inland waterways craft, yet is permissible on sea going vessels!

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

Edited August 8, 2013 by Doorman

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks for the link!

 

A relatively simple set-up that no doubt could be improved upon with some more thought. Definitely something I shall be doing in the future. I notice that their filter incorporates a glass bowl which for some obscure reason is not allowed on inland waterways craft, yet is permissible on sea going vessels!

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

I think, but await the comments from a BSS inspector that, that is only applicable if its mounted in the engine room/bay.

[Doorman]

I think, but await the comments from a BSS inspector that, that is only applicable if its mounted in the engine room/bay.

Where, according to best practice it should be.

[ditchcrawler]

Where, according to best practice it should be.

Mine is straight after the tank isolation valve. Where is this "best practice" statement that says it should be in the engine room please.

[Doorman]

Mine is straight after the tank isolation valve. Where is this "best practice" statement that says it should be in the engine room please.

As close to the tank as possible as should the pump to reduce the amount of suction head required. In our particular case, the tank is directly below the engine so it's best practice for it to be in the engine room. On both our present engine and that of our previous boat, the main fuel filter is attached to the engine and therefore naturally in the engine room.

 

I can't think of many narrowboats where the fuel filter is outside of that area, is yours?

Edited August 8, 2013 by Doorman

[ditchcrawler]

As close to the tank as possible as should the pump to reduce the amount of suction head required. In our particular case, the tank is directly below the engine so it's best practice for it to be in the engine room. On both our present engine and that of our previous boat, the main fuel filter is attached to the engine and therefore naturally in the engine room.

 

I can't think of many narrowboats where the fuel filter is outside of that area, is yours?

Yes. The tank is in the stern, the engine room is about 14 foot forward and the lift pump is on the front of the engine.

[Teadaemon]

I think, but await the comments from a BSS inspector that, that is only applicable if its mounted in the engine room/bay.

Indeed, check 2.12.2 Are all fuel filters inside engine spaces fire resistant?

 

Strictly speaking, all that's required is that a filter resists a temperature of 600 degrees C for 2.5 minutes. An all-metal filter will do this, as will one that's marked as conforming with ISO 10088, even if it has a glass bowl.

[Doorman]

Yes. The tank is in the stern, the engine room is about 14 foot forward and the lift pump is on the front of the engine.

That's quite far from your pump. Is the tank at a higher or even level to the lift pump?

 

Indeed, check 2.12.2 Are all fuel filters inside engine spaces fire resistant?

 

Strictly speaking, all that's required is that a filter resists a temperature of 600 degrees C for 2.5 minutes. An all-metal filter will do this, as will one that's marked as conforming with ISO 10088, even if it has a glass bowl.

Thanks for your input on this subject.

 

Can you elaborate why this stipulation only applies to inland waterway craft please. Also, what are the specifications for flexible fuel pipes too?

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

Edited August 8, 2013 by Doorman

[Teadaemon]

Thanks for your input on this subject.

 

Can you elaborate why this stipulation only applies to inland waterway craft please. Also, what are the specifications for flexible fuel pipes too?

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

The stipulation regarding fuel filters applies to any craft that's being examined for compliance with the Boat Safety Scheme. The BSS does not generally apply to vessels used at sea (although there are some harbour authorities that require a BSS certificate for those boats that have permanent moorings). I'm not certain, but I believe similar requirements regarding fire resistance for fuel system components in engine spaces are part of the Maritime & Coastguard Authority's codes for small commercial vessels, which includes both skippered and bareboat charter.

 

According to check 2.10.2 flexible fuel feed, return, and on-engine hose should comply with (and be marked as complying with) BS EN ISO 7840, or an equivalent specification (like SAE J 1527, DIN 4798 or RINA DIP/66/96).

[ditchcrawler]

That's quite far from your pump. Is the tank at a higher or even level to the lift pump?

 

 

 

Mike

Yes it sits above the swim behind the weed hatch

[Doorman]

The stipulation regarding fuel filters applies to any craft that's being examined for compliance with the Boat Safety Scheme. The BSS does not generally apply to vessels used at sea (although there are some harbour authorities that require a BSS certificate for those boats that have permanent moorings). I'm not certain, but I believe similar requirements regarding fire resistance for fuel system components in engine spaces are part of the Maritime & Coastguard Authority's codes for small commercial vessels, which includes both skippered and bareboat charter.

 

According to check 2.10.2 flexible fuel feed, return, and on-engine hose should comply with (and be marked as complying with) BS EN ISO 7840, or an equivalent specification (like SAE J 1527, DIN 4798 or RINA DIP/66/96).

Thanks again.

 

You have saved me some time in checking this stipulation out for myself.

 

Mike

Yes it sits above the swim behind the weed hatch

 

Ah, therefore there is no real issue with suction head in your case but still a fair distance for the lift pump to deliver the fuel. On our modern engined narrow boat an electric pump is required close to the tank if the lift pump is situated 300mm or more above the tank height.

[blackrose]

Recently cut two 100mm holes either side of a cruiser style back decked narrowboat, got two buckets of crap out, welding stubs, mill scale, sludge etc, the pick up pipe was some 100mm from the bottom, no amount of fuel polishing would have shifted that lot. The boat was 20years old.

 

I wonder if it's possible to run a tank dry and then suck out the remainder with a wetvac? Assuming you could get a thin hose to the bottom of the tank. Can diesel go through a wetvac without igniting?

Clean your fuel tank before going on the choppy stuff. I had it cleaned before I set off in March. Lesson - not good enough. Other lesson, choose the right weather and tides and the Severn estuary is nothing to be frightened of if you equip the boat right, have the charts and can read them. A great trip despite the problem near the end.

 

I can't remember if you said you had a water separator/sediment trap on your boat prior to the fuel filter? The Gloucester Pilots seemed happy when I mentioned I had one.

Edited August 9, 2013 by blackrose