Good Boat Bad Boat?

[Ally Charlton]

Hi

 

I am now into month three of my "do lots of research before you part with a penny" stage of first time boat ownership.

 

Yesterday I visited a boat builders who had an open day. Not because I can afford a £160k boat (maybe if I win the lottery) but mostly because it's an opportunity to see a lot of boats and ask a lot of questions.

 

somebody told me that a Hudson boat is the best one to buy second hand because they are so solidly built. Now I know that no-one can make a claim like this because all sorts of things will affect the quality of a second hand boat, but it did make me wonder

 

when buying a second hand boat, are there any names that you should look out for because they have a reputation of being built well and even more importantly are there any that you should be wary of because they just weren't built that well in the first place.

 

PM me if you don't want to post the latter on an open forum

 

Any advice appreciated

 

ally

[Athy]

Colecraft, though rarely exciting, have a reputation for durability.

But, Ally, have a look at the boats on just about any canal and pay especial attention to the older ones. Alongside 30-year old craft from such esteemed builders as Colecraft, Mindon or Hancock & Lane, you'll see numerous examples of boats such as Springers which were aimed at the budget end of the market when they were new.

You'll notice that they're all still afloat. In other words, I'd suggest that most narrowboats were strongly enough built for their purpose.

One thing to look out for on older craft: quite a few of them were built with steel hulls but GRP or wooden superstructures. I've never owned one of these, but I often hear that the superstructures cause problems in later years as they deteriorate and leak.

 

Now I'll wait for somebody who owns one to tell me that it's totally watertight!

[alan_fincher]

somebody told me that a Hudson boat is the best one to buy second hand because they are so solidly built. Now I know that no-one can make a claim like this because all sorts of things will affect the quality of a second hand boat, but it did make me wonder

(Oh go on then! - Can't resist that opportunity!.....)

 

By all accounts, (unless you are a Hudson owner, so need to justify that decision!), Hudson boats are generally well built, but not always superbly so.

 

There are plenty of builders at the top end of the market who will build you an equally good boat, but which avoids what many consider the caricature look of a Hudson.

 

Hudson boats are all turned out to a formula with is (fortunately in my view!) truly unique interpretation of "Josher bow", which clearly most people who buy one must find attractive, or at the very least see not a lot wrong with. Just be aware that it is not to the tastes of many people, and if you buy a Hudson, not everybody staring at it agog is actually doing so because they think "what an attractive boat"!

[mark99]

There are shells which hold their value better than others - Hudson is one of them. Typically they will be the higher end of the market.

 

Here are a few more;

 

Roger Fuller

Norton Canes

RW Davies

Barry Hawkins

Mel Davies

Dave Harris

 

Others will chime in with more I'm sure.

Hudson boats are all turned out to a formula with is (fortunately in my view!) truly unique interpretation of "Josher bow", which clearly most people who buy one must find attractive, or at the very least see not a lot wrong with. Just be aware that it is not to the tastes of many people, and if you buy a Hudson, not everybody staring at it agog is actually doing so because they think "what an attractive boat"!

 

I looked hard at a Hudson shell (went to his open day, hired one for a hol, tyre kicked loads) and the best description I could come to re the bow was "arresting".

 

Overall they have a distinctive look, and look is a matter of personal taste. They do turn heads for sure.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mark99

[Tuscan]

I too choose not to buy a Hudson as the fit out didn't suit, but unlike Alan haven't been hit by one (yet?) so not so biased. IMO I would find a boat you like the look of then contact some owners to get a feel for the build quality. The list above is a very good start.

[BruceinSanity]

Certainly looking at older examples is a great way to see how a boat builders stuff stands up to use, though as you say, a lot depends on the quality of after care, both by the owners and the builder. The best builders generally go on providing support for years/decades after the boat leaves their yard

 

Since so many others have been mentioned, I'll break my self imposed rule and give a plug for Braidbars, too – there's an Open Day at Poynton on Sat 7 September when there'll be a good range of old, new and still in build boats to see.

[mark99]

Certainly looking at older examples is a great way to see how a boat builders stuff stands up to use, though as you say, a lot depends on the quality of after care, both by the owners and the builder. The best builders generally go on providing support for years/decades after the boat leaves their yard

 

Since so many others have been mentioned, I'll break my self imposed rule and give a plug for Braidbars, too – there's an Open Day at Poynton on Sat 7 September when there'll be a good range of old, new and still in build boats to see.

Braidbar use Tyler shells of various grades of detail depending upon how much you want to invest in the shell. They also have a good website with lots of photo's of previous builds. Their fit outs seem good quality imho and I think they major in customer care. I like their number 100, 108 and 112 boats.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mark99

[Ray T]

Our boat is a Reeves hull and at 15 years old it is standing up to the ravages of time well. (Reeves at one time built hulls for Black Prince).

 

We bought the boat in 2009 after it had stood on brokerage for about 3 years - never found out why.

 

One failing of the boat, at the time was the very poor paint work - when new the boat had been painted by a professional outfit, but to be fair I don't think the previous owner had been too diligent in caring for the boat. After a strip down, repaint and lots of TLC she now belies her age.

 

Comment on Reeves here: http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/leatest/3345-another-boatbuilder-goes

 

ETA Since the above Graham Reeves still ocassionaly builds hulls based at The Laughing Dog Industrial Estate on the A45 near Dunchurch, Warwickshire.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Ray T

[mark99]

Our boat is a Reeves hull and at 15 years old it is standing up to the ravages of time well. (Reeves at one time built hulls for Black Prince).

 

 

The standard Reeves bow is very distinctive (unique shape). Good reputation.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mark99

[BruceinSanity]

Braidbar use Tyler shells of various grades of detail depending upon how much you want to invest in the shell. They also have a good website with lots of photo's of previous builds. Their fit outs seem good quality imho and I think they major in customer care. I like their number 100, 108 and 112 boats.

We're quite pleased with 120

 

They will fit out on any shell of decent quality if the customer prefers. One of the recent boats, 130, is on a Colecraft shell, for example.

[Athy]

Ally, though you may have stated it in a previous thread, could you remind us of what sort of budget you have to work with? Are you looking at old cheap second-hand, brand new build, or something in between? What size of baot are you looking for? A second-hand boat from one of the top builders mentioned above could cost more than a brand-new budget boat such as a Calcutt Clipper.

 

No one has yet mentioned Liverpool Boats - the biggest builder of shells in the '90s and early noughties. They were fairly cheap when new and tend to be good value second-hand. Do you intend to live aboard? If so you may care to look at South West Durham Steelcraft who built many timeshare boats in the '90s, as they have a space-saving interior layout, but I think they come only in 45 ' and 55' lengths.

[mark99]

We're quite pleased with 120

 

They will fit out on any shell of decent quality if the customer prefers. One of the recent boats, 130, is on a Colecraft shell, for example.

Ha ha wondered about your name (is he insane?) - now it makes sense.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mark99

[mrsmelly]

Hi

 

There are many good boats out there. I owned a Hudson, a 70 footer. The steelwork is superb and unlike most others the boat is built with a keelson and a solid steel stem post rather than the usual box section and mine had a 15mm baseplate eliminating the need for ballast just needing engineering bricks for trim. The internal fitout was fantastic, not the most modern just superbly finished which to myself and many outweighs the latest soon out of date interiors.

I also drive a superbly built T5 Volvo. Nowt to look at but Ive never had a Volvo go wrong ever, not the most up to date but very well equiped and megga safe and comfy...............oh and if needed goes like the preverbial................its a similar thing realy

 

Tim

[Guest]

Hi

 

I am now into month three of my "do lots of research before you part with a penny" stage of first time boat ownership.

 

Yesterday I visited a boat builders who had an open day. Not because I can afford a £160k boat (maybe if I win the lottery) but mostly because it's an opportunity to see a lot of boats and ask a lot of questions.

 

somebody told me that a Hudson boat is the best one to buy second hand because they are so solidly built. Now I know that no-one can make a claim like this because all sorts of things will affect the quality of a second hand boat, but it did make me wonder

 

when buying a second hand boat, are there any names that you should look out for because they have a reputation of being built well and even more importantly are there any that you should be wary of because they just weren't built that well in the first place.

 

PM me if you don't want to post the latter on an open forum

 

Any advice appreciated

 

ally

 

As others have said it depends what you want really.

 

Our boat is a Colecraft shell who have a pretty good reputation, it has no fancy 'adornments' such as fake rivets or recessed cabin sides. It is just a fairly plain looking well built shell.

 

It was fitted out by Bath Narrowboats and was exhibited at Crick in 2006 as their 'show boat', Bath as far as we could establish had a good reputation though sadly they no longer fit out boats like this. If I was buying again I would not hesitate buying a Colecraft boat though equally there are some names above who would tempt me too, notably the ones mentioned in the second part of post #4.

[frahkn]

Having hired over many years and then been in a shared ownership scheme for 11 years (this was a Reeves boat), I did not really believe that different boats handled very differently in the water. Yes there were small differences but nothing major.

 

I now have an Orion boat and though it’s early days, I just cannot get over how much better it handles than anything I have used in the past.

 

This may be of less importance to some, and probably would not excuse the odd internal fit out of mine – great quality but very eccentric, but it does for me.

[KJT]

The standard Reeves bow is very distinctive (unique shape). Good reputation.

Another vote for a Reeves shell. Ours is an eleven year old shell and a recent survey found it still in prime condition. The fit out was by Kingsground and was superbly fitted with many thoughtful and very useful touches. It has stood the test of time exceptionally well!

 

Ken

[bottle]

Ally

 

The best built shell can have the worst fit out and visa versa.

 

The best shell can be re-fitted, a bad shell will always be a bad shell.

 

The problem is finding a good boat with both, good.

 

For what it is worth, Jonathan Wilson, Tim Tyler for shell.

[RLWP]

{snip}

 

somebody told me that a Hudson boat is the best one to buy second hand because they are so solidly built.

 

{snip}

 

ally

 

Did they by any chance have a Hudson to sell?

 

Ally, frankly, that advice won't help. I know that when buying in a market that you know little about, brand can be an advantage (BMW, Gucci, M&S, and so on). If you adopt that process with buying a boat you'll be looking at a very small selection and paying through the nose. You'll also ignore a lot of very nice boats that are waiting for you

 

Richard

[BruceinSanity]

Ha ha wondered about your name (is he insane?) - now it makes sense.

When we were cc'ing in our first boat, Sanity, it was a no-mad existence.

[mark99]

Yes we could be wasting a lot of your time here - we need to know your budget as this will determine whether a lot of the shells mentioned will be achievable or not.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mark99

[alan_fincher]

Did they by any chance have a Hudson to sell?

One thing that is a certainty about Hudsons is that any point in time, there is never a shortage of there being quite a few for sale.

 

Usually around half a dozen on Apollo Duck alone, and generally places like ABNB or Rugby Boats have one or more on their books.

[Tuscan]

One thing that is a certainty about Hudsons is that any point in time, there is never a shortage of there being quite a few for sale.Usually around half a dozen on Apollo Duck alone, and generally places like ABNB or Rugby Boats have one or more on their books.

Actually looking at the Apollo Duck web site will show you the major companies down the left, I think there are no more Hudsons for sale than other good boats listed - although I wouldn't touch Harland and Wolf as they appear common !!

[mark99]

You beat me to it Tuscan

 

50% more Harland and Wolff than Hudsons for sale.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mark99

[Athy]

Have we all scared Ally off? She does not appear to have posted since opening the thread.

Oh, perhaps she has to go to w*rk! Or at this very moment she may be wandering round a broker's yard in a state of confusion.

[alan_fincher]

50% more Harland and Wolff than Hudsons for sale.

Not on my version of "The Duck", (Hint Hudson boats get listed multiple ways).

 

However each of the H&W ones is very different from each other one, (not least that several of them are buttys!), whereas when you have seen one Hudson, you do largely seem to have seen them all!