Narrow Boat Hit By Trip Boat On Tidal Thames

[Guest]

 

I expect 'those who know' are sensibly keeping quiet pending investigations.

 

Tim

 

What is interesting though is that doesn't seem to be any news reports about it - normally something like this would at least make regional news, it occurring in our Capital city and all.

 

Usually eye witness accounts emerge that might give a clue, though of course they may still be very wide of the mark and will still be devoid of all the actual facts.

[Timleech]

 

What is interesting though is that doesn't seem to be any news reports about it - normally something like this would at least make regional news, it occurring in our Capital city and all.

 

Usually eye witness accounts emerge that might give a clue, though of course they may still be very wide of the mark and will still be devoid of all the actual facts.

 

"No wrecks and nobody drownded, in fact nothing to laff at at all" is probably why, even if it was unpleasant and dangerous for the people on the narrowboat.

 

Tim

 

(Mr & Mrs Ramsbottom, about Blackpool, prior to young Albert being ate by the lion. If I remember correctly)

Edited July 27, 2013 by Timleech

[Guest]

Aye probably true

 

- and what with the Royal sprog, the Spanish rail crash and it all going belly up in Egypt (again!) probably no room.....

[RLWP]

Pleasure boaters have arrogant names for each other and other types of pleasure boats.

 

Arrogance has no place on any waterway.

 

{snip}

 

within minutes we saw our first idiot in a tin slug.

 

{snip}

 

You believe in practising what you preach then...

 

Richard

[Scholar Gypsy]

Is that a depth charge or a mine you are carrying on your deck?

I'm not surprised he gave you a wide berth.......

 

It's a BBQ, for use after the annual St Pancras Easter Cruise to the Fox at Hanwell.

[Naughty Cal]

 

You believe in practising what you preach then...

 

Richard

Not at all. The point was that it isn't just commercial skippers who are arrogant towards leisure boaters, leisure boaters are arrogant enough with each other.

 

One persons arrogance is another persona norm.

[RLWP]

Not at all. The point was that it isn't just commercial skippers who are arrogant towards leisure boaters, leisure boaters are arrogant enough with each other.

 

One persons arrogance is another persona norm.

 

OK

 

Yours, tin slug owner, Richard

[mark99]

 

OK

 

Yours, tin slug owner, Richard

 

Those type of reductive comments (pretty common it has to be said) tend to lower the tone of any discussion almost to the point of worthlessness or send it to a downward spiral.

 

Not having a go at anyone here btw! esp your RWLP as I know you did not utter it -it's just one of my pet hates (but I am guilty as charged sometimes too).

Edited July 27, 2013 by mark99

[RLWP]

 

Those type of reductive comments (pretty common it has to be said) tend to lower the tone of any discussion almost to the point of worthlessness or send it to a downward spiral.

 

Not having a go at anyone here btw! esp your RWLP as I know you did not utter it -it's just one of my pet hates (but I am guilty as charged sometimes too).

 

I also hate them. I try to push back against them if I can (as in this case). I'm afraid some members here like to use them to wind people up - which is generally known as trolling

 

Richard

[blackrose]

I'm not sure who should be casting the first stone here... There are plently of people on the forum who look down their noses and speak about other members and their boats in derogatory terms, sometimes apparently without even realising it. I think we've probably all done it, but on this forum those without narrowboats seem to be particular targets.

[Guest]

I'm not sure who should be casting the first stone here... There are plently of people on the forum who look down their noses and speak about other members and their boats in derogatory terms, sometimes apparently without even realising it. I think we've probably all done it, but on this forum those without narrowboats seem to be particular targets.

 

Unless they own a Hudson of course, they get some right stick - though I think most of it is in good humour.....

[blackrose]

 

Unless they own a Hudson of course, they get some right stick - though I think most of it is in good humour.....

 

Or a Springer or Liverpool Boat - they're f**king shit!

[Hawkmoth]

I live in a ditch crawler, a rusty sewer tube, or even a tin slug. I don't mind what it's called because I know that in 99% of cases that it's friendly banter.

I use terms like butter tub, tupperware or yoghurt pot, but only in fun. We all know that we love our own style of boat.

There are idiot steerers/skippers in all types and if you come across one it helps to vent your spleen with a bit of pejorative language, just for yourself, of course.

On here it's almost certainly for baiting purposes.

Bob

[mrsmelly]

Hey hey Tim - careful of assumptions - we don't know the full facts and I'm still thinking if the big boat smacked the NB up the arse then the big boat wasn't keeping a proper lookout.

 

When I read your post I was minded of the Bowbelle / Marchioness disaster back in 1989. I only remembered vague details of the outcome so did a bit of googling and was quite gobsmacked by this:

 

"In 2001 an inquiry by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency into the competence and behaviour of Captain Henderson concluded that he should be allowed to keep his master's certificate as he met all the service and medical fitness requirements. However, they "strongly deprecated" his conduct in drinking 5 pints of lager in the afternoon prior to the accident and for his admission that he had forged some signatures on certificates and testimonials in order to obtain his master mariner certificate of competency in 1988"

 

So this bloke drank 5 pints of lager then skippered a boat that was involved in a collision which killed 51 people, was found to have fraudulently obtained his competency certificate but still didn't have it taken from him. Instead he was "strongly deprecated"!

 

How barmy is that? And, if the same rules of play are in force, do we still assume it's the fault of the narrowboat and a sober skipper was in charge of the big boat?

 

I know it was a fair while ago and am hoping things have changed.

Hi Ange

 

Yes assumptions are no use to anyone. I must say though that you have been in the wheelhouse of my daily drive and if you remember i cannot see anything around me only to the front. If something as small as say a narrowboat comes along one side of me and pulls in front of me I will not see it until probably too late as I am far too high up to see it down either side. It is much like the large wagons on the road that have idiot signs on the back reading " If you cant see my mirrors I cannot see you " but wallies still tailgate them often with dire consequences.

Since the Marchioness disaster of which I am well versed legislation has been hugely tightened up and since 2007 a much stricter test has been introduced which invalidates Boatmasters licences pre 2007 for many craft, and definately for anything above 24 metres which is a completely different ballgame.

Myself and colleagues dont even sniff the barmaids apron whilst a t work, I kid you not.

 

Tim

[Bunny]

We have cruised Limehouse to Teddington twice . Trip boats are scary , we try to keep out of their way , hold a steady course , get the bridges right and generally have eyes looking in every direction and two of us listening to the VHF. The big boats criss cross the river like big angry wasps , just missing one another sometimes. We had to do the trip twice because we were so worried about keeping out of the way the 1st trip, we didn't actually see any of the 'sights'. 62ft n/b , have crossed the Ribble twice, Severn once , completed the Manchester Ship canal meeting a couple of coasters, but the scary trip was the Limehouse one , those......... trip boats . Bunny

[Naughty Cal]

Hi Ange

 

Yes assumptions are no use to anyone. I must say though that you have been in the wheelhouse of my daily drive and if you remember i cannot see anything around me only to the front. If something as small as say a narrowboat comes along one side of me and pulls in front of me I will not see it until probably too late as I am far too high up to see it down either side. It is much like the large wagons on the road that have idiot signs on the back reading " If you cant see my mirrors I cannot see you " but wallies still tailgate them often with dire consequences.

Since the Marchioness disaster of which I am well versed legislation has been hugely tightened up and since 2007 a much stricter test has been introduced which invalidates Boatmasters licences pre 2007 for many craft, and definately for anything above 24 metres which is a completely different ballgame.

Myself and colleagues dont even sniff the barmaids apron whilst a t work, I kid you not.

 

Tim

Plus you have the benefit of steering your workplace in a much smaller waterway than the Thames.

 

Nice boat you skipper by the way. Will come visit next time we are up that way. Will try and make it when it isn't persisting it down and getting dark next time!

[larryjc]

Hi Ange

 

Yes assumptions are no use to anyone. I must say though that you have been in the wheelhouse of my daily drive and if you remember i cannot see anything around me only to the front. If something as small as say a narrowboat comes along one side of me and pulls in front of me I will not see it until probably too late as I am far too high up to see it down either side. It is much like the large wagons on the road that have idiot signs on the back reading " If you cant see my mirrors I cannot see you " but wallies still tailgate them often with dire consequences.

Since the Marchioness disaster of which I am well versed legislation has been hugely tightened up and since 2007 a much stricter test has been introduced which invalidates Boatmasters licences pre 2007 for many craft, and definately for anything above 24 metres which is a completely different ballgame.

Myself and colleagues dont even sniff the barmaids apron whilst a t work, I kid you not.

 

Tim

 

This sounds a. incredibly dangerous and b. illegal. Are you saying that you operate a vessel that does not allow the skipper to safely see who is around him????? The Colregs clearly require vessels to be able to maintain an adequate lookout.

Edited July 27, 2013 by larryjc

[Guest]

This sounds a. incredibly dangerous and b. illegal. Are you saying that you operate a vessel that does not allow the skipper to safely see who is around him????? The Colregs clearly require vessels to be able to maintain an adequate lookout.

If you Google 'trip boat' it brings up loads of images of trip boats with the same config. as the Nottingham Princess, so there must be shed loads of illegal boats out there.

 

If you think Tim would be stupid enough to skipper a boat that does not meet the appropriate regs then I'm afraid you haven't got a clue.

[Naughty Cal]

If you Google 'trip boat' it brings up loads of images of trip boats with the same config. as the Nottingham Princess, so there must be shed loads of illegal boats out there.

 

If you think Tim would be stupid enough to skipper a boat that does not meet the appropriate regs then I'm afraid you haven't got a clue.

Agreed.

 

Princess is a fairly typical trip boat.

 

Visbility in all directions is impossible. Although there are crew to provide a look out.

[howardang]

If you Google 'trip boat' it brings up loads of images of trip boats with the same config. as the Nottingham Princess, so there must be shed loads of illegal boats out there.

If you think Tim would be stupid enough to skipper a boat that does not meet the appropriate regs then I'm afraid you haven't got a clue.

larryjc is making a very valid point and I think you're being a bit harsh on him. By what Tim has said he finds it impossible to keep an adequate lookout and if that is the case then may be a conflict with the requirements of the Colregs - rule 5 in particular.

 

I don,t know the vessel in Question so it is difficult to comment further but there is usually a way to resolve an issue such as this-mirrors, CCTV or a dedicated crew member as lookout.

 

Howard

[Guest]

larryjc is making a very valid point and I think you're being a bit harsh on him. By what Tim has said he finds it impossible to keep an adequate lookout and if that is the case then may be a conflict with the requirements of the Colregs - rule 5 in particular.

I don,t know the vessel in Question so it is difficult to comment further but there is usually a way to resolve an issue such as this-mirrors, CCTV or a dedicated crew member as lookout.

Howard

I read it as he can't have 360 degree vision 100% of the time and if some sneeks up from somewhere him or his crew are not at that immediate moment actually monitoring then they may be missed.

 

But Tim is quite capable of elaborating what he meant so no doubt if he sees the post in question he will respond.

 

Nottingham Princess

 

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/32/5c/89/princess-river-cruises.jpg

Edited July 27, 2013 by The Dog House

[mrsmelly]

larryjc is making a very valid point and I think you're being a bit harsh on him. By what Tim has said he finds it impossible to keep an adequate lookout and if that is the case then may be a conflict with the requirements of the Colregs - rule 5 in particular.

 

I don,t know the vessel in Question so it is difficult to comment further but there is usually a way to resolve an issue such as this-mirrors, CCTV or a dedicated crew member as lookout.

 

Howard

Many many boats and ships ( In maritime law we are classed as a ship ) have blind spots all around them. I would never turn the boat without a crew member checking either side for me before doing so. The problem here often is that pleasure boaters have no more idea than the man in the moon about our job. Keeping an " Adequate lookout " means just that, it has no bearing on the view of one man from one steering position. Next time you are parked in your car in a car park get a friend to stand about four feet out from the car on the offside just behind the front door pillar then look in your rearview mirror and your righthand mirror and you will not see them. This is known as the " Blind spot " many road accidents on dual carriageways and motorways are caused by idiots who check their main mirror and even their right hand mirror then pull out straight into a thing as big as a car that they have not even seen in their blind spot and that is in a car with nearly 360 deg visibility.

Try standing on the bridge of an oil tanker and see what view the Skipper gets.

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

I live in a ditch crawler, a rusty sewer tube, or even a tin slug. I don't mind what it's called because I know that in 99% of cases that it's friendly banter.

I use terms like butter tub, tupperware or yoghurt pot, but only in fun. We all know that we love our own style of boat.

There are idiot steerers/skippers in all types and if you come across one it helps to vent your spleen with a bit of pejorative language, just for yourself, of course.

On here it's almost certainly for baiting purposes.

Bob

Hence my forum name "Ditchcrawler" I once had sewer ant as my sig after someone commented that Narrowboaters who break ice on the canals are nothing more than Sewer Ants

[Naughty Cal]

I read it as he can't have 360 degree vision 100% of the time and if some sneeks up from somewhere him or his crew are not at that immediate moment actually monitoring then they may be missed.

 

But Tim is quite capable of elaborating what he meant so no doubt if he sees the post in question he will respond.

 

Nottingham Princess

 

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/32/5c/89/princess-river-cruises.jpg

Can you keep 360 degree vision on your boat 100% of the time?

 

I know for sure we can't.

 

Even with two of us we don't have eyes in the back of our heads or up our arses!

[mrsmelly]

Plus you have the benefit of steering your workplace in a much smaller waterway than the Thames.

 

Nice boat you skipper by the way. Will come visit next time we are up that way. Will try and make it when it isn't persisting it down and getting dark next time!

Please do so. i welcome anyone from the forum, all that i ask is that you pm me first as to when I am working and you would like to come along and I will endeavour to get you onboard and ill buy you a beer. Also come into the wheelhouse and get it from our perspective, it can only help to enhance anyones view and experience in their boating.

 

Tim