Narrow Boat Hit By Trip Boat On Tidal Thames

[LEO]

NC I think you're being a bit unfair there. They weren't in the car park, they were on the road. If a big lorry comes up behind you on the road you don't panic and pull over.

Bob

edit for spelling

 

Hi,

 

Depends how big, how fast and whether the lorry is foreign registered.

 

Funnily enough I can see both sides of this problem, the narrowboat steerer may have been slightly off course, the clipper captain may have had a long shift on a long day and not been as vigilant or patient as he should have been.

 

These accidents happen - even more frightening when it involves a Sea Cat channel Island ferry over running a small slow fishing boat - a similar problem but on a much larger scale (the fishermen died) and the Sea Cat was blissfully unaware of what had happened .

 

Narrowboats may just be OK for use on the Thames through London, but many steerers may not have the experience to make the journey safely - hence the excellent St Pancras CC convoys.

 

Local knowledge is a brilliant thing, I have done the Thames, Brentford to Limehouse in a small boat with a trad Stern and you feel very exposed, when I picked up a replacement boat at Torksey I was more than happy to let the previous owner take it up to Newark, the river Trent running very high at the time.

 

The two rivers are as different as chalk and cheese, except in this instance both involved transit on tidal sections.

 

I will reserve judgement in this instance until all the facts are available and if involved would be careful airing the problem until my insurers had looked into the situation - assuming the insurance extended to Tidal use.

 

Tesco recognise the problem of large lorries reversing and turning in car parks and require a member of staff to help the driver, one wonders what lookouts the Thames boats have?.

 

Now about that bale of hay hanging from a bridge arch .........................

 

Leo.

[Old Son]

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

If it is that simple then the larger more agile more manoeuvrable passenger boat should have got out of the way. Have you ever been in this situation on a narrow boat? I very much doubt (although I don't know because I wasn't there)that the narrow boat manoeuvred in front of the passenger boat to take a direct hit up the rear. He must have straightened up for that to happen. If that was the case why didn't the 'professional' boat handler notice it and move away or slow down?

[WJM]

Can I make a suggestion? - if you don't have a narrowboat and you have never been to London then can you please keep your uninformed thoughts to yourself.

[Timleech]

Can I make a suggestion? - if you don't have a narrowboat and you have never been to London then can you please keep your uninformed thoughts to yourself.

 

That's a bit harsh, you don't need to have a narrowboat to understand that the London river is a bit 'different'.

 

Anyway, surely forums such as this would be a bit empty without a few uninformed thoughts

 

Tim

[carlt]

Can I make a suggestion? - if you don't have a narrowboat and you have never been to London then can you please keep your uninformed thoughts to yourself.

As this is a discussion forum should "uninformed" thoughts not be welcomed in order that they be converted into "informed" thoughts by those with greater knowledge and experience?

 

That is of course if the person is willing to acknowledge their inexperience and willingness to learn from others...

 

So, Phyllis...changed your mind?

[WJM]

My comment was aimed directly at our resident troll!

[Guest]

My comment was aimed directly at our resident troll!

 

Has something been deleted - I can't see any 'trolling' going on in this thread.

[carlt]

If you mean NaughtyCal so was mine (a well aimed ricochet, rather).

Edited July 26, 2013 by carlt

[bizzard]

Calling Naughty Cal, calling Naughty Cal,' over!' where are you. Have you crashed your computer?

[carlt]

Have you crashed your computer?

She didn't get out of the way in time and was hit by a big IBM mainframe.

[Doorman]

Can anyone recommend a decent VHF radio for navigation purposes?

 

We would like to venture down to the Thames at some point and along with any other necessary equipment would wish to include this vital piece of kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[bizzard]

She didn't get out of the way in time and was hit by a big IBM mainframe.

Perhaps she had her eye on her Knockia Eye-pod at the time instead of paying attention to navigating. Calling Naughty Cal, Calling Naughty Cal... Come in Naughty Cal.....are you receiving...... over!.

[fudd]

Can anyone recommend a decent VHF radio for navigation purposes?

 

We would like to venture down to the Thames at some point and along with any other necessary equipment would wish to include this vital piece of kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

I bought a Cobra HH475. Bit over the top really but I liked it. Can link up with your phone via blue tooth. And it floats so if you drop it in the tidal Thames you can go back and get it. ?

[Victor Vectis]

Can anyone recommend a decent VHF radio for navigation purposes?

 

We would like to venture down to the Thames at some point and along with any other necessary equipment would wish to include this vital piece of kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

Ditto.

[bizzard]

Can anyone recommend a decent VHF radio for navigation purposes?

 

We would like to venture down to the Thames at some point and along with any other necessary equipment would wish to include this vital piece of kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

I'd wouldn't go for the sort Naughty Cal has, it doesn't respond.

[RichardN]

Can anyone recommend a decent VHF radio for navigation purposes?

 

We would like to venture down to the Thames at some point and along with any other necessary equipment would wish to include this vital piece of kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

We have tried to write up what we have learnt here: http://www.thamescruising.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=296

 

The handheld / fixed vhf radio question has been debated here several times, well worth using search and having a read as there is no one right answer. We went for a fixed set based on advice from London VTS, for us it was the right decision but then we got a handheld for talk on other channels and back-up - I find tri-watch too hard to use effectively somewhere as busy as the Thames.

 

That siad there are some very very clever handhelds out there, love the way that the Cobra can be paired with a mobile phone. Some (is it the horizon) have gps built in, I want one with AIS built in! One day.

Edited July 26, 2013 by RichardN

[Bee]

If only life was that simple, the Clippers are the fastest thing on the river apart from the big RIB fast trip boats, their acceleration is much the same as my old Micra on a good day, the analogy is more akin to a fast car weaving all over a motorway and then running into the back of something much slower.

[magnetman]

If only life was that simple, the Clippers are the fastest thing on the river apart from the big RIB fast trip boats, their acceleration is much the same as my old Micra on a good day, the analogy is more akin to a fast car weaving all over a motorway and then running into the back of something much slower.

I think it should be pointed out here that it was in fact not a Thames Clipper that was involved, at least thats what I was told by someone towing the damaged nb yesterday.

[Guest]

I think it should be pointed out here that it was in fact not a Thames Clipper that was involved, at least thats what I was told by someone towing the damaged nb yesterday.

 

So do we get to know what it was then... or is it top secret.....

[magnetman]

 

So do we get to know what it was then... or is it top secret.....

read my second post in this thread something like #17 or thereabouts shouldn't be too difficult to locate it

 

ok?

[Guest]

read my second post in this thread something like #17 or thereabouts shouldn't be too difficult to locate it

 

ok?

 

Ah - misread tripper as clipper....

[magnetman]

 

sorry it was my third post not my second...

[Scholar Gypsy]

 

We have tried to write up what we have learnt here: http://www.thamescruising.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=296

 

The handheld / fixed vhf radio question has been debated here several times, well worth using search and having a read as there is no one right answer. We went for a fixed set based on advice from London VTS, for us it was the right decision but then we got a handheld for talk on other channels and back-up - I find tri-watch too hard to use effectively somewhere as busy as the Thames.

 

That siad there are some very very clever handhelds out there, love the way that the Cobra can be paired with a mobile phone. Some (is it the horizon) have gps built in, I want one with AIS built in! One day.

 

An opportunity for another plug for my portable fixed set: a second hand fixed set from Ebay, speaker and aerial cost less than the handheld!

 

It has been used on three different boats so far this year (Limehouse to Brentford, Limehouse to Teddington, Limehouse to Gravesend & back), and is on the lookout for more boats to travel on. It can pick up London VTS in Reading (though they couldn't hear me...)

 

Edited July 26, 2013 by Scholar Gypsy

[George94]

Far more likely that a large vessel has come so close to them.

 

A typical narrow boat, if it is lucky, can maybe make 5 or 6 mph maximum in addition to anything the tide is doing, and common sense has you largely plugging along on a fairly straight course over to one side.

 

Although the trip boats are meant to limit their speed, many are easily capable og maybe 4 or 5 times the speed of the narrow boats, so if one decides to catch you up rapidly from behind, but then not steer adequately around you, there certainly is little avoiding action you could safely take.

 

 

So given you can easily be surrounded by 4 trip boats at least, (we encountered one overtaking another in one direction,, at exactly the point two were doing the same thing in the other direction), what are you advising?

 

On the one hand you say "don't weave about", (my paraphrase), but on the other you say "get out of the way"!, which presumably means you should second guess what they are all going to do, and somehow hope they all do, and are not thrown by you changing course.

 

I actually feel most of the time you are better of trying to stay as "out of the way" as possible, and hoping their sweeping manoeuvres as they shuttle from jettys on one side of the river across to those on the other do not involve you!

 

If a large lorry decides to suddenly come up on your back bumper when you are driving up a motorway in the slowest lane, do you swerve into another one, assuming that is your best chance of survival?

 

I know you think you are the fount of all knowledge on these matters, but your comments tell me you know very little about the river traffic on the Thames, and even less of the capabilities of a narrow boat to somehow stay clear of all comers, even if one apparently fails to see you.

 

I think if one of those big river cruisers gets it wrong, and closes in on you without seeing you in time, options for avoiding action are not that plentiful, and you do actually risk doing something that makes it worse.

 

Not the best example, but here I have been caught up very rapidly as I go through a nominated arch, and the "Clipper" has decided to use the same arch, and close in on me very fast indeed. Obviously you can see he is going around me, but I would argue that in a case where he hadn't recognised my presence, and just forged straight ahead, I would have struggled to know what action to have taken. What if he did then see me at the very last minute, but I have made a decision to turn the way he then decides to? The result could be far worse than me deciding to hold my course.

 

I doubt Rachel has handled many narrow boats either, but hey?!?...................

 

It's not obligatory to pass under the centre of the arch, or indeed to use one of the designated arches, though care should be taken at low tide. It's a good idea to keep to one side under an arch so as to allow other boats to pass if they wish. This is possible with many bridges, including the one you are using in the picture. Forcing fast boats to slow down unnecessarily is never going to endear NB owners to commercial skippers. I am not saying you were, but it looks as though you might have been.

 

And if you want to see the Thames when it is busy, go to the annual Lighterman's race. It's a complete scrum.

[Naughty Cal]

quite obviously a plastic boat would never hit a bright red bollard in the middle of a large car park either........

No only green ones!

As this is a discussion forum should "uninformed" thoughts not be welcomed in order that they be converted into "informed" thoughts by those with greater knowledge and experience?

 

That is of course if the person is willing to acknowledge their inexperience and willingness to learn from others...

 

So, Phyllis...changed your mind?

Not at all.

 

I'm sorry but if the Pride of Hull was breathing down my neck or the boats stern I wouldn't expect that to make the manoeuvre to avoid collision.

 

As leisure boats we are very much on large commercial waterways on their terms.

 

Keep out of the way.

 

Yes I have been on the Thames tide way though not in our own boat yet. It is on the list though. We went through on a friends 30fter and funnily enough managed to stay well clear of the trip boats.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Naughty Cal