Paint Job

[dominicebs]

I am looking at getting my boat repainted. I have got a number of quotes all around the £5,000 mark. However I recently found someone who was quoting around £3,000. |Either I have got lucky or his quote is for a job missing some important element of the preparation. What sorts of questions should I ask to make sure that he he is quoting for a proper job

[Mike Tee]

Ask him for the names of the last 5 boats he painted (pref in your area).

If he's any good, he won't mind. If he's useless, you probably won't hear from him again.

 

And you may get lucky and find he painted one or more from this forum!

[Ronniesonic]

Hello- I suggest the following questions

 

1. Painting enviroment- shed / polytunnel- ambient temperatures? what can they achieve for optimum painting conditions

2. Is it a back to the steel & windows & fittings out & off etc?

3. Paint used & how many coats?

4. Any online / other written testimonials?

5. Anyone you personally know who can recommend them or a recent example 'in the flesh'?

6. Can you visit during the process?

 

Best of luck as £3k for a full monty (I assume) is very very low unless it's mates rates IMHO

 

A few others on here with more techy input & actually paint themselves.

 

If your numbers come up tonight then give Phil Speight a call. The man is a genius. No offence to the other genius's BTW Mr Moore etc

Edited July 24, 2013 by Ronniesonic

[bottle]

As posted on another thread asking a similar question (I think there are three running at the moment)

 

60 ft back to bear metal all portholes, mushrooms etc. removed, £6,000 to £7,000 job duration six to seven weeks.

 

This is four years ago, someone on the other thread (apologies for not remembering who) says he has had a quote of £120 per foot at today's prices for similar.

[Woodstock]

Ours was about about £80 per foot- taken back to bare metal and we were really pleased. I saw many samples of the painters previous work and was given names of boats he had painted in the area- he was keen to show me boats he had painted in our marina- so I could speak to the owners. I also asked forum members if they had experience and had 4 people from the area come back and reccomend. Try asking if anyone on here has experience or seen work of the painter in question- you might strike lucky.

[larryjc]

Ours was about about £80 per foot- taken back to bare metal and we were really pleased. I saw many samples of the painters previous work and was given names of boats he had painted in the area- he was keen to show me boats he had painted in our marina- so I could speak to the owners. I also asked forum members if they had experience and had 4 people from the area come back and reccomend. Try asking if anyone on here has experience or seen work of the painter in question- you might strike lucky.

 

Sorry silly question but how far down did this go?? ie was it just the roof and sides or was it down the waterline/rubbing strakes and did it include the stern and bow areas?

[kitman]

I am looking at getting my boat repainted. I have got a number of quotes all around the £5,000 mark. However I recently found someone who was quoting around £3,000. |Either I have got lucky or his quote is for a job missing some important element of the preparation. What sorts of questions should I ask to make sure that he he is quoting for a proper job

 

Ask him to provide clear clarification of which parts of the boat he will work on.

 

Ask him for a list of what work he plans to carry out.

a) Bare metal repaint?

Rust ground out and removed?

c) All small fittings removed and refitted and sealed?

d) Mushroom vents removed and refitted and sealed?

e) Windows removed and refitted and sealed?

f) Cratch removed and refitted?

g) Coachlines, single or double?

h) One colour? or do you get panels and borders?

i) Signwrting?

j) Hatch designs?

k) Top bend designs?

l) Paint depth?

m) Type of paint and manufacturer?

 

Ask him how he will detail your requirements in writing.

 

Ask to see his terms and conditions

 

Ask about his warrantee policy

 

Ask him what depth of paint he will apply and how will he prove that.

 

Ask him how he plans to effectively stop any rust

 

Above all I would ask him why his prices aren't the same as the other good quality painters??

 

You need your painter to be on the ball because otherwise you will end up unhappy with the result, make sure you get everything that you want doing in writing and have that costed. Ask for evidence that the work has been carried out.

 

 

 

Hello- I suggest the following questions

 

1. Painting enviroment- shed / polytunnel- ambient temperatures? what can they achieve for optimum painting conditions

2. Is it a back to the steel & windows & fittings out & off etc?

3. Paint used & how many coats?

4. Any online / other written testimonials?

5. Anyone you personally know who can recommend them or a recent example 'in the flesh'?

6. Can you visit during the process?

 

 

 

Good list!

[Glynn]

We have just had our boat repainted and a very nice job was done we paid £3500 but this included two seats welded on the back, a new lock accepter welded on the back doors and the side doors relined in hard wood.

We had the work done by Karl @ Botany Bay, Chorley, Lancashire.

Our boat was lifted and placed under a poly tunnel.

Hull was painted in two pack blacking, colour was a full change. I will try to upload some pictures

May be, the cost of painting is area related try looking for quotes further afield.

 

Edited July 27, 2013 by Glynn

[Cloudinspector]

We have just had our boat repainted and a very nice job was done we paid £3500 but this included two seats welded on the back, a new lock accepter welded on the back doors and the side doors relined in hard wood.

We had the work done by Karl @ Botany Bay, Chorley, Lancashire.

Our boat was lifted and placed under a poly tunnel.

Hull was painted in two pack blacking, colour was a full change. I will try to upload some pictures

May be, the cost of painting is area related try looking for quotes further afield.

 

Was it stripped back to bare metal and all fittings removed?

We are local to chorley and have had quotes of £6k upwards. That's a very good price!

[john4647]

Can anyone tell me what the split is on these various quotes or actual costs? That is cost of materials and cost of labour. Also what is the definitive number of undercoats and top coats.

[Darren72]

Ask to see a copy of his public liability insurance too

[Glynn]

Ask to see a copy of his public liability insurance too

Meaning ?

[mark99]

Meaning ?

Hi Glynn, for me the lack of insurance is a sign of a cowboy business.

[kitman]

We have just had our boat repainted and a very nice job was done we paid £3500 but this included two seats welded on the back, a new lock accepter welded on the back doors and the side doors relined in hard wood.

We had the work done by Karl @ Botany Bay, Chorley, Lancashire.

Our boat was lifted and placed under a poly tunnel.

Hull was painted in two pack blacking, colour was a full change. I will try to upload some pictures

May be, the cost of painting is area related try looking for quotes further afield.

 

 

Hi Glynn, out of interest did that price include the crainage? Does the price of £3500 include or exclude VAT? And how many hours did the painting take? Thanks

[kitman]

Can anyone tell me what the split is on these various quotes or actual costs? That is cost of materials and cost of labour. Also what is the definitive number of undercoats and top coats.

 

John I would be very interested to know if you can actually obtain any painter's specific costings.

 

I can give you a good idea of average labour time and materials cost because I itemise and log this information on my database at the end of every job for costing purposes.

 

Materials cost will vary depending on the quality of the paint and what kind of preparation method is used. The materials cost for my last three boats averaged around 800 quid trade cost, that includes paint, tapes, sealants, abrasives, solvents, masking plastic for window holes, sundries and others. The materials list is fairly long. If you added in a contribution to the wear on tools and brushes, trays etc then add another 50 - 100 quid maybe.

 

Labour for removing vents, and all small fittings, strip down, rust grinding, filling and repainting to a 200 micron film depth should be around 160 hours, that's 20 days work if you can work consistently at 8 hours a day (not always possible). Add in removal and refitting of 8 windows and you can add in another 14 hours. Usually the customer will want a non slip roof and gunwales. Also some coachlines and traditional decoration so add in another 40 hours.

 

That's a total of 214 hours from start to finish, plus some consultation time, plus some unexpected down time (aka the fuck up factor). Call it 230 hours.

 

Divide that by 8 and you have 28.75 days consistent work.

 

Call that 6 weeks in a suitable dock. You can make your own mind up about the cost for this, but don't forget to add in electricity. In the winter the bill to heat a dock 24 hours should be around 400 - 500 quid a month. However in the summer it averages about 70 quid.

 

Plus your public liability, Legal, employers liability, personal accident insurance. Plus your advertising, plus other sundry costs.

 

All cost rise at around 5% a year.

 

If you can squeeze all that into 3500 grand then you are more of a wizard then Jesus and the loaves and fishes.

 

Don't even start me on the 'how many coats of paint' question. Considering 'a coat of paint' is likely to be thinned down by your painter and can therefore vary in thickness, the important thing is actually film depth. What ever the paint company tell you, your average coat of paint (taking the necessary sanding involved into account) is 25 microns. I have been measuring the paint using a dry film thickness gauge for a good few years now, and taking into account the minute tolerances the DFT gauge is measuring, I think it would be fair to assume 25 - 35 microns is the depth you will get if you apply the paint at 100 wet film depth per coat. 100 wet film is roughly the maximum you can apply without the paint sagging.

 

Don't forget manufactures stipulate a minimum recoat time of 16 hours per coat so the bottom line is you can achieve 25 microns per day peeps.

 

The total minimum micron depth for the whole coating system should be specified by the paint manufacturer. Ask your painter to build the coating to that specification and then give you a price.

 

In terms of the question 'how much should a repaint really cost?'. My own personal thoughts are that, at the end of the day, some painting services offered by painters on the canal are woefully inadequate by modern standards. Part of this problem is that the amount of money needed to provide a better, modern and forward thinking service is not available. If you want to know why the paintwork on your boat fails so quickly compared to your car then this is the reason, painters are limited to what they can achieve based on the current average market price.

 

In an ideal world boat repaints should start at around 15,000 grand minimum in order to achieve a better quality product and service. Better facilities should be built and proper training for painters should be in place. The quality for boat painting should be standardised. Part of that standard would be that preparation and paint depth is always inline with paint manufactures requirements so that proper guarantees can be applied and called upon if necessary. And a standardised price should be introduced in order to achieve this specific standard of quality. This would encourage confidence in higher end repaints and shed light on the fact that cheaper repaints are essentially inferior.

 

Until this level of organisation and detail can be acheived, customers will have to accept 'you spend your money, you take your chance' applies.

 

Cost is the major factor in producing the finished article. I come across a number of highly experienced craftsmen and business operators who are passionate about creating quality, because essentially they are good and honest people. Unfortunately they are being paid a pittance to provide this quality service. Running a business on a shoe string and trying to maintain quality is unbelievably challenging, and because I see the stress it causes I find it very upsetting to see. Trying to compete with Fred Bare down the road who is cheaper but sloppy is not economically viable in the long term. But as long as this goes on good quality work may soon be replaced by poor quality work as craftsmen 'race to the bottom' in order to stay competitive or simply go out of business.

 

I appreciate that everyone has their own budget, but to anyone who hasn't worked it out yet, please don't assume you will get a comparable standard of work at a cheaper price. Keep saving and spend once.

Edited July 29, 2013 by kitman

[pquinn]

 

John I would be very interested to know if you can actually obtain any painter's specific costings.

 

I can give you a good idea of average labour time and materials cost because I itemise and log this information on my database at the end of every job for costing purposes.

 

Materials cost will vary depending on the quality of the paint and what kind of preparation method is used. The materials cost for my last three boats averaged around 800 quid trade cost, that includes paint, tapes, sealants, abrasives, solvents, masking plastic for window holes, sundries and others. The materials list is fairly long. If you added in a contribution to the wear on tools and brushes, trays etc then add another 50 - 100 quid maybe.

 

Labour for removing vents, and all small fittings, strip down, rust grinding, filling and repainting to a 200 micron film depth should be around 160 hours, that's 20 days work if you can work consistently at 8 hours a day (not always possible). Add in removal and refitting of 8 windows and you can add in another 14 hours. Usually the customer will want a non slip roof and gunwales. Also some coachlines and traditional decoration so add in another 40 hours.

 

That's a total of 214 hours from start to finish, plus some consultation time, plus some unexpected down time (aka the fuck up factor). Call it 230 hours.

 

Divide that by 8 and you have 28.75 days consistent work.

 

Call that 6 weeks in a suitable dock. You can make your own mind up about the cost for this, but don't forget to add in electricity. In the winter the bill to heat a dock 24 hours should be around 400 - 500 quid a month. However in the summer it averages about 70 quid.

 

Plus your public liability, Legal, employers liability, personal accident insurance. Plus your advertising, plus other sundry costs.

 

All cost rise at around 5% a year.

 

If you can squeeze all that into 3500 grand then you are more of a wizard then Jesus and the loaves and fishes.

 

Don't even start me on the 'how many coats of paint' question. Considering 'a coat of paint' is likely to be thinned down by your painter and can therefore vary in thickness, the important thing is actually film depth. What ever the paint company tell you, your average coat of paint (taking the necessary sanding involved into account) is 25 microns. I have been measuring the paint using a dry film thickness gauge for a good few years now, and taking into account the minute tolerances the DFT gauge is measuring, I think it would be fair to assume 25 - 35 microns is the depth you will get if you apply the paint at 100 wet film depth per coat. 100 wet film is roughly the maximum you can apply without the paint sagging.

 

Don't forget manufactures stipulate a minimum recoat time of 16 hours per coat so the bottom line is you can achieve 25 microns per day peeps.

 

The total minimum micron depth for the whole coating system should be specified by the paint manufacturer. Ask you painter to build the coating to that specification and then give you a price.

 

In terms of the question 'how much should a repaint really cost?'. My own personal thoughts are that, at the end of the day, some painting services offered by painters on the canal are woefully inadequate by modern standards. Part of this problem is that the amount of money needed to provide a better, modern and forward thinking service is not available. If you want to know why the paintwork on your boat fails so quickly compared to your car then this is the reason, painters are limited to what they can achieve based for the current average market price.

 

In an ideal world boat repaints should start at around 15,000 grand minimum in order to achieve a better quality product and service. Better facilities should be built and proper training for painters should be in place. The quality for boat painting should be standardised. Part of that standard would be that preparation and paint depth is always inline with paint manufactures requirements so that proper guarantees can be applied and called upon if necessary. And a standardised price should be introduced in order to achieve this specific standard of quality. This would encourage confidence in higher end repaints and shed light on the fact that cheaper repaints are essentially inferior.

 

Until this level of organisation and detail can be acheived, customers will have to accept 'you spend your money, you take your chance' applies.

 

Cost is the major factor in producing the finished article. Unfortunately I come across a number of highly experienced craftsmen and business operators who are passionate about creating quality, because essentially they are good and honest people. However they are being paid a pittance to provide this quality service. Running a business on a shoe string and trying to maintain quality is unbelievably challenging, and because I see the stress it causes I find it very upsetting to see. Trying to compete with Fred Bare down the road who is cheaper but sloppy is not economically viable in the long term. But as long as this goes on good quality work may soon be replaced by poor quality work as craftsmen 'race to the bottom' in order to stay competitive or simply go out of business.

 

I appreciate that everyone has their own budget, but to anyone who hasn't worked it out yet, please don't assume you will get a comparable standard of work at a cheaper price. Keep saving and spend once.

wow!very well put.

[mark99]

wow!very well put.

Yes agree, valuable post - not much to argue about there.