Bollards For France

[Biggles]

I'v seen it mentioned several times about the best bollards for use in the French locks.

 

These are mine.

 

 

What I'm wondering is why mine are a linked pair when most on bigger barges the are separate pairs.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Perhaps they think you will be using thinner string on them

[Phil Ambrose]

If you pass a spliced loop through the centre you can then slip it over the two bits to make a secure connection which is easily removed, mind you the spliced eye would neeed to be big enough but I'm sure you can manage a splice or two.

 

Phil

[Boaty Jo]

Yours are ok for mooring up but not ideal for locking.

 

Commercial peniches often have 3 (or 2 minimum) 'bits' (things sticking out at right-angles) on straight-sided bollards. 2 bits opposite each other and a third below and offset to the others. This enables the line to be 'spiralled' round the bollard to allow greater control and less chance of snagging the line.

For example, a couple of turns can be used as a break to slow the boat and position it exactly in a lock.

 

You see couples (frequently 'of a certain age') controlling fully laden 39-metre peniches in 40-metre locks using ropes (and perhaps the engine on tick-over).

[Timleech]

Where they are is probably more important than the detail of their form, you will very likely develop a technique for using what you have.

 

Tim

[Biggles]

Where they are is probably more important than the detail of their form, you will very likely develop a technique for using what you have.

 

Tim

 

2 at the bow with a T post 2 at the stern. Centre ropes are attached to the handrail.

[Timleech]

 

2 at the bow with a T post 2 at the stern. Centre ropes are attached to the handrail.

 

Having looked for some pics on your blog

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1cNLq15oK58/T8_Nu1hgJbI/AAAAAAAAFlM/AuMZIUjQXYI/s400/IMG_7661.JPG

 

I think you would find it really useful to have something further forward near the stern, certainly on the full width sides and maybe about level with the steering position.

Another thing to bear in mind is that, because ropes are generally handled on the boat rather than the bank, you need a system for going downhill in locks which will make absolutely sure the rope cannot jam on itself and hang the boat up.

 

Tim

[Tam & Di]

I'v seen it mentioned several times about the best bollards for use in the French locks.

 

These are mine.

 

 

What I'm wondering is why mine are a linked pair when most on bigger barges the are separate pairs.

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53058&page=2 is the extensive reply I sent to your similar question back last December (post No.30). I illustrated exactly how bollards are commonly used in locks here with a series of photos, and with more explanatory text at #51 and #69.

 

Your bollards are fine for mooring, but have been provided by someone who is not familiar with how relatively heavy craft should be worked through the often fierce automatic locks in France, where you have no control at all over how fast the lock fills. Equally important is to minimise the risk of getting a jammed line when the lock empties - one of the most common accidents and unfortunately one that often also leads to damage to the crew person's limbs and extremities.

 

I've also commented earlier on the use of mooring with a centre line attached to handrails. I've often now heard the term "tipped" used by UK boaters here who employ this method, blaming each passing large vessel for "tipping" them - it's not their fault for being ignorant, obviously! These big barges are all just out to get them!

 

Tam.

 

Tam

[RLWP]

I had been looking for that thread, Tam. In particular this picture:

 

 

Thanks for reminding me where it was

 

Richard

[Biggles]

Having looked for some pics on your blog

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1cNLq15oK58/T8_Nu1hgJbI/AAAAAAAAFlM/AuMZIUjQXYI/s400/IMG_7661.JPG

 

I think you would find it really useful to have something further forward near the stern, certainly on the full width sides and maybe about level with the steering position.

Another thing to bear in mind is that, because ropes are generally handled on the boat rather than the bank, you need a system for going downhill in locks which will make absolutely sure the rope cannot jam on itself and hang the boat up.

 

Tim

This is why I am thinking about adding some more as the rear ones are hard to get to and will be even harder when the seats are finished. And almost unusable with the cover up.

 

I had in mind putting some on one side of the access gap. But where would be best, fore or aft of it.

[Biggles]

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53058&page=2 is the extensive reply I sent to your similar question back last December (post No.30). I illustrated exactly how bollards are commonly used in locks here with a series of photos, and with more explanatory text at #51 and #69.

 

Your bollards are fine for mooring, but have been provided by someone who is not familiar with how relatively heavy craft should be worked through the often fierce automatic locks in France, where you have no control at all over how fast the lock fills. Equally important is to minimise the risk of getting a jammed line when the lock empties - one of the most common accidents and unfortunately one that often also leads to damage to the crew person's limbs and extremities.

 

I've also commented earlier on the use of mooring with a centre line attached to handrails. I've often now heard the term "tipped" used by UK boaters here who employ this method, blaming each passing large vessel for "tipping" them - it's not their fault for being ignorant, obviously! These big barges are all just out to get them!

 

Tam.

 

Tam

Thanks Tam. I had forgotten TBH. I have been back and re read it and am puzzled but the hook type additions and how they work.

 

I suppose in my case making similar bollards but without the bridge in the middle is the way to go?

[George94]

I would saw out a section of the bar that joins the two bitts. As things are, you don't have two separate mooring points, you have one.

[blackrose]

This is why I am thinking about adding some more as the rear ones are hard to get to and will be even harder when the seats are finished. And almost unusable with the cover up.

 

I had in mind putting some on one side of the access gap. But where would be best, fore or aft of it.

 

I'd say aft - less of a trip hazard.

[Timleech]

 

I'd say aft - less of a trip hazard.

 

If you go foreward, they can be used to hold/pull the boat into the side with the motor.

 

Tim

[Biggles]

 

If you go foreward, they can be used to hold/pull the boat into the side with the motor.

 

Tim

I think forward just in front of the star of the cabin side. It would be easy to step over them in that place.

[blackrose]

 

If you go foreward, they can be used to hold/pull the boat into the side with the motor.

 

Tim

 

Why couldn't that be done if they were just aft of the access gap?

I think forward just in front of the star of the cabin side. It would be easy to step over them in that place.

 

Assuming whoever's walking down the gunwale remembers they're there.

 

Personally I don't think there should be any trip hazards on gunwales - especially NB style gunwales.

Edited July 7, 2013 by blackrose

[Timleech]

 

Why couldn't that be done if they were just aft of the access gap?

 

It wouldn't work so well, to do with angles of dangle and the leverage against the stern.

Not saying it couldn't be done but I'm sure it would be more of a struggle.

 

Tim

[Chris Pink]

the usual with peniches is a pair outside the wheelhouse door, so 5 metres or so forward of the stern post (or more importantly the rudder) and one pair on the front deck. The wheel house pair pull the whole barge in against a rope running back when mooring but if I have understood Tam right (and his posted video) it's more usual to use the front pair against the motor in a lock.

 

So back to the OP. I would have thought, with a cruiser stern wide boat you want them at the front of the back deck.

 

Possibly along the gunwales if the back deck is particularly short but I wouldn't think them easy or safe to use there.

[Tam & Di]

Thanks Tam. I had forgotten TBH. I have been back and re read it and am puzzled but the hook type additions and how they work.

 

I suppose in my case making similar bollards but without the bridge in the middle is the way to go?

 

 

If you've got the space it would be much better to fit a pair of bollards, sufficiently far apart to have plenty of room to takes turns of your line around either of them from a standing position so there is no real risk of getting fingers close in and becoming trapped. I don't think that simply cutting the joining bar of your present ones would achieve that. The risk of a line jamming is largely from the fact that the angle at which it connects to the lockside bollard changes as the boat rises in a lock or more significantly when it falls. This is especially true if you only have a single bollard on your ship. With a pair of bollards as in post #9 above the line from the lockside is taken in front of the bollard furthest away from it, so that is where the angle will change as the lock fills or empties. It is then fed to the 2nd bollard and that is where you take your turns which provide the friction to keep you steady in the lock - the line coming to where you are taking those turns will then be at a constant angle which reduces enormously the chances of getting it jammed. In that photo you will see that although there is a half hitch on top of the turns there is no tension on that at all - the work is being done by the friction.

 

With a pair of bollards you can always take your line onto the one which is relevant to your direction of travel and use the 2nd for your turns. The guy who fitted the two < and >s did not want to reinforce his deck and have a 2nd bollard fitted, so he had to have a < on each side of his single bollard as his turns would always be on that and he needed one < to allow for a line going forward and another to allow for a line going backward.

 

He is simply tied at a quay in my photo, so is not making use of the "fairleads". The photo can make clear what the risk is though, especially the risk of using a single bollard and of taking a line from the ship around the lockside fitting and back to the ship. If he was tying his ship like this in a lock and the lock emptied, the eye of his line (protected with blue hose) would then be fouling the turns he would take to be able to hold the ship steady. With a ship of some 40 tonnes plus (or even of the size of Biggles) you would not hold still in a fierce lock by just holding the end in your hands - you HAVE to take turns around something.

 

Chris is right that commercial crews (and we) normally drive against a forward spring. You can achieve the same off the stern but it is much more difficult to keep the boat neatly along the wall if you do that in a lock with a particulary fierce fill. This puts the fulcrum point too far aft, so although the rudder can hold the stern against the wall it is difficult for it to hold the fore end steady too.

 

Tam

Edited July 7, 2013 by Tam & Di

[Biggles]

Thanks Tam. Beautifully explained.

[Chris Pink]

I've been doing the practical today, in a couple of staircases and although I have a pair of bollards it's impossible (as I think Tam pointed out in his earlier post) to use them like in the photo and have the eye of the line on them as well. The eye must be on the bankside bollard for this technique to work.

 

I was going up but realised that it would seriously worry me going down if both ends of the rope were on the bollard. If, for whatever reason, you needed to have it narrow-boat stylee and the eye was on one bitt then you would have to use the other bitt for taking the turns. I found that that was OK except when the angle changed (fore to aft in this case) the turns were no longer in the right place, there was potential for jamming or slipping off, and that's when there could have been danger in putting fingers down to adjust.

 

It's not so difficult with a 15 tonne boat but I can imagine with an 80 tonne boat it has to be right.

 

Strangely it's not the case with a t-stud, they work fine with both ends of the line from whatever angle.

[Timleech]

This drawing shows the original arrangement on my little tug, a single bitt/bollard and a fairlead (and similar at the front).

 

 

These were missing at the stern, having been replaced with an inappropriate aluminium cleat such as is found on mooring pontoons.

I've reproduced the original Bitts, but have failed to find replacement fairleads of the right sort of size and style so have resigned myself to getting some cast (one day!).

I've now decided that closed fairleads will be a much better option, specifically for safety going downhill in locks. If the line is fed through the fairlead before it passes to the lockside it removes the risk of jamming, which is difficult to avoid otherwise (without having twin bollards as already discussed).

Biggles' present style could be used, by passing the line under the bar at one end and using the top and crossbar at the other to make the line fast - or by passing the line under the middle, and then using one end to make it fast. Not ideal if you're making new ones though.

 

Tim

 

[Biggles]

I will be making new ones it seems LOL.

 

Any designs I should now consider my gunwhale is only 100mm wide.

 

Biggles

 

BTW. Alternator working a treat.

[Chris Pink]

 

I've reproduced the original Bitts, but have failed to find replacement fairleads of the right sort of size and style so have resigned myself to getting some cast (one day!).

 

 

Have you tried Trinity Marine (in Devon?) They have some chunky stuff.

[Biggles]

 

Have you tried Trinity Marine (in Devon?) They have some chunky stuff.

 

No I will make them, just need guidance on what to make.