Continuous cruisers???????

[sueb]

As far as I know there are no rules that say you have to visit your home mooring. There is a boat near me moored on the oversubscribed visitor moorings whilst he has a long term mooring opposite, but further away from the water point.

[cotswoldsman]

Now there's a thought. As someone who obeys the rules, I would have no problem if CRT sent out GPS devices and required them to be fitted to boats. What can the problem be, unless you want to break rules re mooring, cruising etc., or object for philosophical Big Brother (Orwell, not the TV programme!) reasons.

 

Seriously though, CRT walk towpaths very regularly (at least weekly where I am), and enter all boat numbers into their hand-held GPS enabled computer. So CRT know where you are most of the time, and can easily tell if you have been somewhere too long, or that you never stay at your declared home mooring.

The problem is that I do not want CRT to know where I am by just looking at some screen. So you think all boaters should have an ASBO?

[carlt]

What can the problem be, unless you want to break rules...

You have nothing to lose but your privacy.

 

You may not value that but I, and many others do.

 

I respect your right to wish to be tagged so please could you respect mine not to be?

[luctor et emergo]

F++cking hell, next thing is that having a home mooring and paying for it, as per the cart rules, is not enough for the 'occasional weekend ' boaters. Now you have to follow suit, and park your boat there regularly aswel, rather than be out0and about.

 

Go

 

And

 

F

 

Yourselves

 

 

 

What does it take, to impress on you, that some of us, do not want to wake up to the touching distance sight of next doors pontoon or boat???

[Higgs]

I think the question about time spent at your home mooring is weak. Nothing should compel a boater to use it. It's there if you need it. There is somewhere you can keep a boat. As far as I know, there are no time-spent-at-a-mooring requirements. There are time limit specific rules on the cut for mooring periods, but that effects every user.

 

Wether people use a mooring as ghost or not, there seems to be no specific restriction for doing this. It's a bit like complaining about tax avoidance, avoidance - it can be done, liked or not.

 

Without being judgemental about why the use of a ghost mooring might be a way around certain 'controls', it doesn't mean the use of a mooring in this way is breaking any rules; even if it doesn't feel like cricket.

[Hastings]

F++cking hell, next thing is that having a home mooring and paying for it, as per the cart rules, is not enough for the 'occasional weekend ' boaters. Now you have to follow suit, and park your boat there regularly aswel, rather than be out0and about.

 

Go

 

And

 

F

 

Yourselves

 

 

 

What does it take, to impress on you, that some of us, do not want to wake up to the touching distance sight of next doors pontoon or boat???

I am not suggesting that boats have to be kept in tidy rows in marinas. Everyone has a right to drive their boat wherever they will, as often as they like, but I am suggesting that keeping to CRT rules is a good idea, otherwise we're on the way to anarchy - which some might like, but the majority in societies such as ours do not want.

 

And CRT noting by GPS where boats are is really no different from us being caught by CCTV cameras wherever we go. We might not like it, but if we have done nothing wrong, there's really no issue?

[Guest]

I am not suggesting that boats have to be kept in tidy rows in marinas. Everyone has a right to drive their boat wherever they will, as often as they like, but I am suggesting that keeping to CRT rules is a good idea, otherwise we're on the way to anarchy - which some might like, but the majority in societies such as ours do not want.

 

And CRT noting by GPS where boats are is really no different from us being caught by CCTV cameras wherever we go. We might not like it, but if we have done nothing wrong, there's really no issue?

 

Well it's not actually the same - CCTV gives a snap shot (literally) of where we where at a particular point in time, the same as being logged by CRT as you move around the system.

 

GPS tracking give a continuous and instantaneous plot of your exact and precise location, ideal for things like Ambulances and Police vehicles but overkill and a bit too Orwellian for boats surely?

Edited June 18, 2013 by The Dog House

[carlt]

We might not like it, but if we have done nothing wrong, there's really no issue?

We don't like it because there is an issue and that issue is the erosion of our right to privacy.

 

You don't have to have "do something wrong" in order to desire the freedom not to be followed.

 

If that freedom is denied then that will be the point when some of us start "doing something wrong".

 

I will not be tagged.

[Higgs]

If CRT place any kind of enforcement on the time a boat spends at its mooring, it would start to raise the question of accessibility to use the canal and why pay for twelve months when it can't be used for periods of time. This would then seem like a difference between CC and Home-Mooring, and then, shouldn't the Home-Mooring licence be cheaper.

[cotswoldsman]

I am not suggesting that boats have to be kept in tidy rows in marinas. Everyone has a right to drive their boat wherever they will, as often as they like, but I am suggesting that keeping to CRT rules is a good idea, otherwise we're on the way to anarchy - which some might like, but the majority in societies such as ours do not want.

 

And CRT noting by GPS where boats are is really no different from us being caught by CCTV cameras wherever we go. We might not like it, but if we have done nothing wrong, there's really no issue?

Wow on our way to "anarchy" because we want to float arroind the canals maybe breaking the odd interposition of the rules!! I am an "anarchist" I stayed for 4 days on a 48h mooring last week, mind you there were only 2 other boats and enough room for another 5 we were all anarchists as we all overstayed but all happy to move should there be a sudden rush.

As for GPS well I for one would refuse where I go is my business and no one else's. I am unhappy about having my number logged anywhere else other than on a Visitor Mooring.

[Chris Pink]

If CRT place any kind of enforcement on the time a boat spends at its mooring they will be going further beyond their powers than they have so far and the chances of them having any teeth on the issue are zilch.

 

If France you pay for navigating and you pay for mooring, if you're doing (paying for) the one you don't have to do (pay for) the other. You can pay for a whole year of each which is generally cheaper than buying bits but you don't have to. For instance 3 separate months of navigation licence is about the same as a whole year.

 

But then the canals in France are run in an efficient way for the benefit of their customers (what a radical thought - could never happen here).

 

If CRT place any kind of enforcement on the time a boat spends at its mooring, it would start to raise the question of accessibility to use the canal and why pay for twelve months when it can't be used for periods of time. This would then seem like a difference between CC and Home-Mooring, and then, shouldn't the Home-Mooring licence be cheaper.

[MtB]

Ho the joys of the open water ways free to roam.

 

You ARE free to roam, as you put it.

 

It's the freedom to cease roaming and tie up for extended periods in one place that is limited.

 

The point being, if you were able to moor/abandon your boat anywhere you liked, then CRT would collect no mooring fees from you. So there are arbitrary rules designed to encourage you to take a 'paid for' home mooring.

 

Some people shape their lifestyles to legitimately avoid these arbitrary rules (CCers), other people blatantly ignore and evade the rules (CMers). More people still shaped their lives to comply with the rules as interpreted by local BW staff then found later the rules were to be interpreted differently in future (hence the RMP debate). The vast majority of boaters just comply with the rules by renting a home mooring.

 

That's my oversimplification of the position anyway.

 

 

MtB

[cotswoldsman]

I think there should be a rule that say "get on with your own life and stop worrying about what others do" most of the people that seem to be so concerned about CCers and what they perceive to be NCCC spend more time complaining than cruising, and certainly contribute nothing to sorting out the perceived problem.

[PaulG]

I presume that the agreement private mooring operators have with CRT gives CRT the right to ask a mooring provider to confirm that, when a boater has declared a particular home mooring, there is actually a mooring agreement in place for that mooring, and it is available for use. Otherwise boaters could falsely claim a home mooring and CRT may be unable to determine the real position.

 

Doesn't help if the declared home mooring isn't on/directly connected to CRT waters.

There may indeed be agreements such as this in place between marina operators and C&RT.

However, under the Data Protection Act, it would be generally illegal for the marina operator to transfer this information to a third party (e.g. C&RT) without the permission of the "data subject" i.e. the boater.

Now, the marina's standard terms and conditions may include a clause that grants this permission.

However, the one of the main principles of the Data Protection Act is that individuals should generally be able to *choose* whether or not their personal data is disclosed to another organisation.

It could be argued that the inclusion of permission for data transfer under the DPA in the standard terms and conditions for securing a marina berth contravenes this principle of free choice, and is therefore illegal.

 

I'm still a bit surprised that they claim to have "powers" under the DPA. As far as I can see, the Act grants them no powers.

Edited June 18, 2013 by PaulG

[sueb]

The home mooring doesn't have to be a paid for mooring. Just somewhere where the boat can be left.

[carlt]

The home mooring doesn't have to be a paid for mooring. Just somewhere where the boat can be left.

Indeed.

 

It doesn't even have to be a mooring.

 

Hardstanding, field or your Mum's drive...as long as it is a place "where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left" then it is exempt from the ccing legislation.

[kris88]

I think there should be a rule that say "get on with your own life and stop worrying about what others do" most of the people that seem to be so concerned about CCers and what they perceive to be NCCC spend more time complaining than cruising, and certainly contribute nothing to sorting out the perceived problem.

Well said I'd give you a Greenie if I knew how

Edited June 18, 2013 by kris88

[Guest]

Well said I'd give you a Greenie if I knew how

 

Green 'up' arrow bottom right of each post. Click on it...

[mayalld]

There may indeed be agreements such as this in place between marina operators and C&RT.

However, under the Data Protection Act, it would be generally illegal for the marina operator to transfer this information to a third party (e.g. C&RT) without the permission of the "data subject" i.e. the boater.

 

The usual incorrect interpretation of what the DPA actually says (as aided and abetted by countless cases of "I'm sorry the Data Protection Act doesn't allow me to do that")

 

For the avoidance of doubt, the Data Protection Act does NOT prohibit one data controller from passing data to another data controller, and makes no stipulation that the data subject must give permission.

[14skipper]

Can l have a tag ? Then the next time l see a hire boat moored up on will go my tag,follow that then C& RT !

 

14skipper

[Hawkmoth]

I think there should be a rule that say "get on with your own life and stop worrying about what others do" most of the people that seem to be so concerned about CCers and what they perceive to be NCCC spend more time complaining than cruising, and certainly contribute nothing to sorting out the perceived problem.

All very well, but if their rule breaking impinges on my needs don't I have the right to be aggrieved? If I turn up a VM to find that it's full and some of those boats have been there a long time and C&RT has not done anything about it I get a little peeved. Is this being greedy, bigoted, bad tempered or just plain

 

unsympathetic? Maybe.

[carlt]

If I turn up a VM to find that it's full and some of those boats have been there a long time and C&RT has not done anything about it I get a little peeved.

How do you know how long they've been there?

 

Do you send scouts ahead?

[Ange]

There's a perception that when someone turns up at their desired VM to find it full there must be overstayers there.

 

It can't be due to the fact that they've had the same idea as lots of other people, but arrived too late to bag a spot.

 

I've seen popular VMs empty one day then full the next on quite a few occasions.

[bigste]

I was warned when I started this thread that I was opening a can of worms. Must say though that I am much the wiser.

[Hawkmoth]

How do you know how long they've been there?

 

Do you send scouts ahead?

Because at the moment I'm on a mooring (48hrs) where at least one boater brags he's been here ages and has no intention of leaving. He's been ticketed, he says, many times, but they're not going to get a crane in here to get me out, are they?

BTW he started his engine at 11.30 last night because he wanted power!

While on my way here other boaters had said to me that there were overstaying boats here making it awkward to get a mooring.

There's a perception that when someone turns up at their desired VM to find it full there must be overstayers there.

 

It can't be due to the fact that they've had the same idea as lots of other people, but arrived too late to bag a spot.

 

I've seen popular VMs empty one day then full the next on quite a few occasions.

I don't mind finding VMs full. I don't ask how long people have been there, but sometimes I get told, or perhaps I've turned around and come back days or weeks later and the same boat is in the same place.

OK, maybe it's come and gone as well, but I'd back my judgement that it hasn't against the chance that it had.

Bob