ballasting advice

[DandV]

Well Val and I are now on Heartbreak Hill still heading north having detoured up the Ashton and Caldon.

It is apparent that Whio is extremely wind sensitive. Today Val and I were cast against a lee outside bend that even with the bow thruster (wusses tools but useful) the bow resolutely tracked the bend while other boats steered around us. In another place Val and I both pushing on the bow could not overcome wind pressure. Whio is a 17.7m (58ft) Reeves cruiser hull fitted with a Beta 38hp engine. We have already noticed that she sat considerably bow higher then another 58ft Reeves Hull of the same vintage moored alongside at Aylesbury.

I have just taken the following measurements. 340l water tank half full. Beer fridge MT

Waterline length 17.4m

Draft at bow tangent point (2.5m aft of waterline bow) 400mm

Draft at comencement of aft swim 3.5m forward of aft waterline 630mm.

I feel her handling would be enhanced by adding considerable ballast into the forepeak underneath the gas locker.

Views and ideas as to quantity and sources? Old Bricks? there is some access into this space.

The photo shows Whio being lifted out of Aylesbury basin at the start of our journey. (the only time we have reached 50mph and stopped at a roadside cafe for a bacon butty) The strops had to be adjusted considerably aft of Tuckey's initial placement.

 

Don and Val Whio

 

[john6767]

looking at the watermark on the hull it does not look that bow high to me, and when you push the bow down you will get water coming in the well deck scuppers, and probably into the gas locker as bit. I don't believe either of those things really matter but just so you are expecting it. The other thing not to forget is the stern, is that too low, which makes it look bow high. Also as you add ballast at the bow you may find that the stern comes up, which it looks like it can stand.

 

I added some ballast to our boat, under the well deck by the water tank. I did it on the chap and used engineering bricks 3.2kg each if I remember (use seconds from a builders merchants for something like 30p each) . If you need to add lots of weight though and need steel ballast I could not find a cost effective way of doing that, so if you know of one I would be interested.

[bizzard]

Well Val and I are now on Heartbreak Hill still heading north having detoured up the Ashton and Caldon.

It is apparent that Whio is extremely wind sensitive. Today Val and I were cast against a lee outside bend that even with the bow thruster (wusses tools but useful) the bow resolutely tracked the bend while other boats steered around us. In another place Val and I both pushing on the bow could not overcome wind pressure. Whio is a 17.7m (58ft) Reeves cruiser hull fitted with a Beta 38hp engine. We have already noticed that she sat considerably bow higher then another 58ft Reeves Hull of the same vintage moored alongside at Aylesbury.

I have just taken the following measurements. 340l water tank half full. Beer fridge MT

Waterline length 17.4m

Draft at bow tangent point (2.5m aft of waterline bow) 400mm

Draft at comencement of aft swim 3.5m forward of aft waterline 630mm.

I feel her handling would be enhanced by adding considerable ballast into the forepeak underneath the gas locker.

Views and ideas as to quantity and sources? Old Bricks? there is some access into this space.

The photo shows Whio being lifted out of Aylesbury basin at the start of our journey. (the only time we have reached 50mph and stopped at a roadside cafe for a bacon butty) The strops had to be adjusted considerably aft of Tuckey's initial placement.

 

Don and Val Whio

With a draught of roughly 6.1/2ft at the bow and 9.1/2ft at the stern end your boat should be tide and current rode not wind rode, DandV.

[Chalky]

Have you played with the level of the water in the water tank? Our boat (ok it's only 40') changes its trim by about 3 to 4 inches between a full and an empty tank. It's far more "tender" when the tank is nearly empty and serves as a simple level gauge!

[Naughty Cal]

Fill the water tank up. An extra 170 litres or 170kg of weight at the front will help keep the bow down.

 

Our little boat is very sensitive to the tanks filling and emptying. The fuel tank is now almost full as we are heading out onto the coast in a couple of weeks and the stern has sat down by about 3 inches compared to how she was sat with a half full tank.

[PaddingtonBear]

When we had our modern boat, Warrior, we put nearly a tonne of stainless punchings in the fore end locker to get her down. Most if not all modern leisure boats appear to need considerable ballasting at the front. This is not your problem however although it might help. It might be that you have wrong prop or gearing as sure as eggs is eggs 38hp should be man enough to do anything you want

[IanM]

I have just taken the following measurements. 340l water tank half full. Beer fridge MT

 

I've found your problem

[David Mack]

Well Val and I are now on Heartbreak Hill still heading north having detoured up the Ashton and Caldon.

It is apparent that Whio is extremely wind sensitive. Today Val and I were cast against a lee outside bend that even with the bow thruster (wusses tools but useful) the bow resolutely tracked the bend while other boats steered around us. In another place Val and I both pushing on the bow could not overcome wind pressure. Whio is a 17.7m (58ft) Reeves cruiser hull fitted with a Beta 38hp engine. We have already noticed that she sat considerably bow higher then another 58ft Reeves Hull of the same vintage moored alongside at Aylesbury.

I have just taken the following measurements. 340l water tank half full. Beer fridge MT

Waterline length 17.4m

Draft at bow tangent point (2.5m aft of waterline bow) 400mm

Draft at comencement of aft swim 3.5m forward of aft waterline 630mm.

I feel her handling would be enhanced by adding considerable ballast into the forepeak underneath the gas locker.

Views and ideas as to quantity and sources? Old Bricks? there is some access into this space.

The photo shows Whio being lifted out of Aylesbury basin at the start of our journey. (the only time we have reached 50mph and stopped at a roadside cafe for a bacon butty) The strops had to be adjusted considerably aft of Tuckey's initial placement.

 

Don and Val Whio

 

As has been said, looking at the water line on the hull I would say your bow is deep enough. The picture at the other end is less clear, but if anything I think you may be too deeply ballasted at the stern.

 

All boaters accasionally get caught out by the wind and pinned against the downwind bank. The problem is that you need forward movement to steer, but you can't get much whilst grinding along the bank (or the bottom) and you can't push off against the wind. Sometimes you just have to wait for the wind to drop, or grind your way slowly forwards (or backwards) to a more sheltered spot, where you can push the bow out.

 

The trick with steering in windy conditions is to keep your speed up, and to steer crabwise - keep the bows closer than the stern to the upwind side of the canal. This will require you to hold the tiller over continuously. If you try and steer the boat parallel to the bank you will end up stuck on the downwind side.

 

The bowthuster is for getting out from the bank or for very low speed manoeuvring only. It will have negligible effect when you are moving forward, and is not an aid to steering.

[Grace and Favour]

Don,

 

If you use bricks - use engineering bricks - they absorb less water than ornery ones, (and don't use concrete slabs)

[Odana]

Don,

 

If you use bricks - use engineering bricks - they absorb less water than ornery ones, (and don't use concrete slabs)

What happens with concrete slabs out of interest? That's generally what I've found under floorboards I have lifted.

[Grace and Favour]

What happens with concrete slabs out of interest? That's generally what I've found under floorboards I have lifted.

Concrete will absorb and retain moisture - and will increase the likelihood of rust.

 

(It's cheap - which is why boatbuilders oft use it)

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

I used large round stones (pebbles) in woven sacks, which allowed any water to drain away small shingle and gravel will hold water. Bought the sacks on ebay and sources the pebbles from garden centers as I was not near a good source. that way I could move the ballast to achieve the required effect. My boat was very under ballasted and tender.

[PhilR]

Well Val and I are now on Heartbreak Hill still heading north having detoured up the Ashton and Caldon.

It is apparent that Whio is extremely wind sensitive. Today Val and I were cast against a lee outside bend that even with the bow thruster (wusses tools but useful) the bow resolutely tracked the bend while other boats steered around us. In another place Val and I both pushing on the bow could not overcome wind pressure. Whio is a 17.7m (58ft) Reeves cruiser hull fitted with a Beta 38hp engine. We have already noticed that she sat considerably bow higher then another 58ft Reeves Hull of the same vintage moored alongside at Aylesbury.

I have just taken the following measurements. 340l water tank half full. Beer fridge MT

Waterline length 17.4m

Draft at bow tangent point (2.5m aft of waterline bow) 400mm

Draft at comencement of aft swim 3.5m forward of aft waterline 630mm.

I feel her handling would be enhanced by adding considerable ballast into the forepeak underneath the gas locker.

Views and ideas as to quantity and sources? Old Bricks? there is some access into this space.

 

Was the stern in contact with the outside bank?

Edited May 14, 2013 by PhilR

[Dalslandia]

A wild guess that you mean inch and not feet, oh sorry but it is so hard not to ...

 

Jan

 

With a draught of roughly 6.1/2ft at the bow and 9.1/2ft at the stern end your boat should be tide and current rode not wind rode, DandV.

[tree]

Concrete will absorb and retain moisture - and will increase the likelihood of rust.

 

(It's cheap - which is why boatbuilders oft use it)

Yikes! I have just 'gutted' out my boat and it has broken concrete slabs as ballast, which has been laided on roofing felt ( well that is what it looks like) and I have removed it out of a few of the bays to repaint and the floor looks ok so far. So besides pebbles in bags what is the best stuff to use for ballast ???

I have received advice from a forum member to put plastic strips down after I have painted the floor then lay the concrete bits back ( bit like a jigsaw piuzzle at the mo) Sorry to waylay the OP

[steelaway]

Yikes! I have just 'gutted' out my boat and it has broken concrete slabs as ballast, which has been laided on roofing felt ( well that is what it looks like) and I have removed it out of a few of the bays to repaint and the floor looks ok so far. So besides pebbles in bags what is the best stuff to use for ballast ???

I have received advice from a forum member to put plastic strips down after I have painted the floor then lay the concrete bits back ( bit like a jigsaw piuzzle at the mo) Sorry to waylay the OP

 

I used 5 mm nylon tube, 50 mt reels can be bought quite cheaply from compressed air companies. It flattens when you lay the ballast on it leaving a 2-3 mm air gap.

 

Alex

[tree]

I used 5 mm nylon tube, 50 mt reels can be bought quite cheaply from compressed air companies. It flattens when you lay the ballast on it leaving a 2-3 mm air gap.

 

Alex

Thank you Alex I have written that down and will go orf 'googling' again crikey !! my 'apprentice boat fitter-outer ' guideline book is sure filling up

 

edited cos of >>>Just finished 'googling' and managed to order some tubing so tankies ever so much for the info

Edited May 14, 2013 by tree

[DandV]

The problem I am having is more then just wind set. Having done most of my boating adjacent an in the notoriously windy Cook Strait (windy Wellington and the Marlborough Sounds) I am used to crabwise progress.

 

What I am finding is a gust will rapidly rotate the bow downwind against the helm and copious power, like a very badly balanced sailing rig with excessive lee helm.

 

Exacerbated no doubt, by the cratchcover also acting as a backed headsail, but we need it as the outside clothes dryer has only been very intermittently working so far. A full water tank definitely improves things. Getting away from the bank and using the bow thrusters I could not get the contact point with the bank aft of midships. Full astern got the stern well away but the bow remained in firm contact.

 

Like the idea of pebbles in sacks, just need to find a canalside garden centre en route.

 

Weather here in Middlewich cold and wet. Few boats moving, and their crews well covered up but looking very miserable. Val is preparing another loaf of bread to bake to further tune the onboard oven to her recipes.

 

Another lesson.

 

Do not position fender over Eberspacher exhaust. They melt and burst..

 

Don

 

[Chris Pink]

Not wishing to patronise but this one is down to experience.

 

You need to keep the stern in enough water to swing the bow. Often, in wind, this means the stern being right on the opposite bank.

 

And 'crabwise' means exaggerate (wildly). After all you can't get the bow stuck on the windward bank.

 

if you do set the bow stuck then the way to shift it is with crew and a pole (whilst keeping the stern in deep water), bowthrusters are nowhere compared to that kind of thrust.

 

Maybe altering your ballast fore and aft will help a little but with a long thin boat and the power at the back it will only be a little.