Attacked by an Angler

[ditchcrawler]

Hi all,

 

But they shouldn't be fishing yet ; fishing season hasn't started.

Depends where you are fishing.

[bizzard]

I don't fecking believe it, two young guys fishing (with a toddler in a pushchair ffs!) just started yelling, arm waving, maggot flinging and finally squared up to me and the guy who owns the mooring I'm on, for asking them to leave the (private!) land several times over the course of an hour. Again I am not that convinced they were actually interested in catching anything other than some excitement.

We get blokes fishing here now and then despite ''private no admittance signs''. We don't confront them at all but one of us will keep a casual eye on them in case they get up to any mischief, the same ones don't usually turn up again especially if they haven't caught anything. Confrontation and general angreeness might cause them to retaliate later like for example chucking a stone through your window when no ones looking or at night.

[Angela C]

Canal fishing in our area has a start date of which I understand is the normal time stated by the angling association no matter what canal it is.

[blackrose]

Yes I recall people judging me when I was a young punk and reminding my Dad how he was judged, as a rocker in the 60s.

 

Now I'm approaching 50 I am glad that I recall those days and can be less judgemental about the youth of today's unfortunate (in my eyes) choice of attire and thank the fashion gods that I wasn't a teenager in the early 70s.

 

Well, I was a teenager in the early 70s and as someone of over 50 I think I have every right to judge anyone who seeks to intimidate me.

 

The difference is that punks and rockers didn't set out to intimidate other individuals. Punks challenged society and were judged by some on that basis, but they weren't usually seen as a personal threat because they weren't violent at all despite appearances.

 

Ironically the main group of people who judged punks and wanted to beat them up were rockers!

 

The other thing is that many of today's youth - even those from rough backgrounds - choose not to dress like chavs or gangstas and don't try to intimidate others, so it's a personal choice and nobody is forced into that culture by virtue of age or circumstance.

Edited May 15, 2013 by blackrose

[pquinn]

werent alot of punks middle class studenty types.

[bizzard]

Well, I was a teenager in the early 70s and as someone of over 50 I think I have every right to judge anyone who seeks to intimidate me.

 

The difference is that punks and rockers didn't set out to intimidate other individuals. Punks challenged society and were judged by some on that basis, but they weren't usually seen as a personal threat because they weren't violent at all despite appearances.

 

Ironically the main group of people who judged punks and wanted to beat them up were rockers!

 

The other thing is that many of today's youth - even those from rough backgrounds - choose not to dress like chavs or gangstas and don't try to intimidate others, so it's a personal choice and nobody is forced into that culture by virtue of age or circumstance.

Nor were Teddy boys a threat to ordinary folk and passers by, although they including Rockers Mods ect fought amongst themselves.

Although I was an individual I tended to err on the Rockers side because of my preference for motorbikes and not scooters and could sometimes be seen mingling with them mounted upon my Corgi bike and later souped up BSA bantam and later still an old Triumph Thunderbird, always attired, not in studded leathers but bobble hat, wooly gloves, my old dads cast off black worsted railway trousis and duffle coat.

[Starcoaster]

We get blokes fishing here now and then despite ''private no admittance signs''. We don't confront them at all but one of us will keep a casual eye on them in case they get up to any mischief, the same ones don't usually turn up again especially if they haven't caught anything. Confrontation and general angreeness might cause them to retaliate later like for example chucking a stone through your window when no ones looking or at night.

 

Come again? We didn't approach them with "confrontation and angryness" but that's what we got the THIRD time they were asked to leave and they refused. This is private land that is offside and gated, down a strip of gravel that doesn't lead to anything but two moorings and the water.

I'm not just going to just "keep an eye" on two strange guys who suddenly rock up outside of my window at gone 7pm, in a place that you'd find it almost impossible to just stumble upon by chance, on private land and a mooring where I pay for the privilege of being able to be secure and know who is (allowed to be) on the premises.

I am not within sight or earshot of any other occupied boats or houses, and I decided to ask the landlord to move the guys on (after I failed to) while it was still light, and not in the middle of the night when I have no one to call on for support.

They mainly took umbrage to the landlord (being as he's a guy I suppose) despite his being very polite and friendly to them, but were fast enough to start with me as well when I came out after hearing threats and yelling.

 

They had pulled their van right up to the boats too, and the reg details etc. were taken in case anything else happens. There has been a spate of break-ins and odd goings on here at the pub (on the same land) and other properties nearby recently, so anyone hanging around (particularly as they didn't actually appear to be fishing, or at least not in a way I have ever seen done before) is going to stand out a mile and is going to be approached.

Obviously their reg details etc. have been taken in case anything else does happen, but I strongly suspect the business, rather than my boat, would be targeted.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Starcoaster

[carlt]

werent alot of punks middle class studenty types.

None that I knew.

 

Then again Doncaster wasn't really renowned for its middle class studenty types.

[bizzard]

Come again? We didn't approach them with "confrontation and angryness" but that's what we got the THIRD time they were asked to leave and they refused. This is private land that is offside and gated, down a strip of gravel that doesn't lead to anything but two moorings and the water.

I'm not just going to just "keep an eye" on two strange guys who suddenly rock up outside of my window at gone 7pm, in a place that you'd find it almost impossible to just stumble upon by chance, on private land and a mooring where I pay for the privilege of being able to be secure and know who is (allowed to be) on the premises.

I am not within sight or earshot of any other occupied boats or houses, and I decided to ask the landlord to move the guys on (after I failed to) while it was still light, and not in the middle of the night when I have no one to call on for support.

They mainly took umbrage to the landlord (being as he's a guy I suppose) despite his being very polite and friendly to them, but were fast enough to start with me as well when I came out after hearing threats and yelling.

 

They had pulled their van right up to the boats too, and the reg details etc. were taken in case anything else happens. There has been a spate of break-ins and odd goings on here at the pub (on the same land) and other properties nearby recently, so anyone hanging around (particularly as they didn't actually appear to be fishing, or at least not in a way I have ever seen done before) is going to stand out a mile and is going to be approached.

Obviously their reg details etc. have been taken in case anything else does happen, but I strongly suspect the business, rather than my boat, would be targeted.

I see, ok I got your situation a bit wrong. Its not very secure there then if they can get a van alongside. Left alone I doubt if they'd have got up to mischief with a small child and almost certainly would have gone as soon as it gets dark. Have they gone now? There are quite a few boats here so there's usually someone about to keep an eye on trespassing fishermen,

[carlt]

I think I have every right to judge anyone who seeks to intimidate me.

 

 

Indeed you do however I prefer to exercise my right to judge on actions,not appearance.

[JV44]

Close season for fishing canals is only on flowing canal sections ie lower kennet or SSSI areas of canal but that is by the by,Sounds a harrowing and scary event and there is no reasoning with some people.

We have to run the gauntlet of Fobney lock most Sundays to get back to our mooring and the attendant Whitley Chavs and there Stella cans but have avioded conflict by getting them involved in helping with the lock and having 2 hairy arsed german shepherds on board ..

I spent the best part of 18 years training and competing in martial arts and in years gone by would have dealt with the i am laying on the lock beam chav differently.....well 15 years ago and 3 stone less anyway .

That is something we all need to bare in mind we are older slower etc and if poss best to let things wash over you ,obviously the OP didn`t have that chance

[PaulG]

and having 2 hairy arsed german shepherds on board ..

That would certainly scare most people .

Also, large dogs would be a good alternative.

[Caprifool]

If one did injure an attacker or burglar in your home or on your property. Would there be a difference in the virdict if you have a house or a boat? Would the court see a house more as a proper home worth protecting?

[Alanji]

Very frightening John. Glad you were not physically hurt, though no doubt shaken up. As has been pointed out the variety of boating implements to hand could prove useful. As a single hander, I keep a mooring spike, chain and windlass on the rear deck and the boat hook is readily available.

 

Slightly tongue in cheek I have a hand pump for maintenance. As a first line of defence (and no danger of being questioned for physical assault) how about filling it with some of the contents of the black tank and discharging into the assailants face

[Morat]

If one did injure an attacker or burglar in your home or on your property. Would there be a difference in the virdict if you have a house or a boat? Would the court see a house more as a proper home worth protecting?

Not if your lawyer was worth anything, no.

[furnessvale]

Very frightening John. Glad you were not physically hurt, though no doubt shaken up. As has been pointed out the variety of boating implements to hand could prove useful. As a single hander, I keep a mooring spike, chain and windlass on the rear deck and the boat hook is readily available.

 

Slightly tongue in cheek I have a hand pump for maintenance. As a first line of defence (and no danger of being questioned for physical assault) how about filling it with some of the contents of the black tank and discharging into the assailants face

However, in making this weapon you have created a "prohibited weapon" which, legally, is frowned upon slightly more than a conventional firearm.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[kitman]

Sorry John I wasn't intending to lecture you or even suggest that your actions were incorrect, in the heat of the moment, just suggesting a possible course of action for people in a similar situation, in the future.

 

When considering the use of weapons,however, it is worth considering the experience I once had with a boater.

 

I was on the towpath and saw a guy struggling to get his boat to the bank in high winds so I suggested he throw me a rope and I'll help him.

 

He threw me his stern in and I pulled him in to the bank, let go of the line and held the handrail while he could hammer in his stakes and tie off.

 

Unfortunately a gust of wind pushed the boat away from the bank so he hopped onto his back deck and I had the choice of letting go of the handrail and falling into the cut or leaping for his gunwales and, not surprisingly, I chose the latter.

 

At this point things turned strange and he started screaming at me to get off his boat and I explained to him that I had no wish to be there and if he reversed towards the towpath I'd just hop off whereupon he calmed down and agreed this course of action.

 

As I prepared to jump off his back deck I was unaware that he had taken off his brass tiller bar and, just before I jumped, he started beating me around the back of the head with it. I disarmed him and threw the tiller into the cut and managed to get off the boat covered in blood.

 

To this day I don't understand how the incident turned from me helping someone out to a dozen stitches and severe concussion.

 

Jesus...some people

[mark99]

Nasty situation.

 

Had a yob/ who was fishing have a nibble at me 2 days ago for going too fast (I was on tickover) ended up giving him a mouthful and staring hard at each other and he backed down - afterwards thought I was not clever there - you are very vulnerable as you can't exactly run away fast or hide your boat if they decide to call reinforcements. Missus said just apologise, wave and move on next time. Inclined to agree.

Edited May 19, 2013 by mark99

[CHUGALONG HIRE COMPANY]

Don't mess about, go straight to the police. These people are inevitably involved in other forms of crime and need every incident reporting. I'll bet they know who he is.

Don't worry about trying to defend yourself in your own home, your action was a proportionate response to your assault, you don't need to be struck to be assaulted, just believe you are about to be...and he got on your boat with a weapon. There is too much petty crime on the canals that boaters just put up with!

These people make me soooo angry.

Hope you are OK.

[ackdaw]

i am happy that you are safe and well after this experiance and hope you have recoverd fully , it makes me angry and frustrated , that this has happend to you , but i think you have as such done the right thing in bringing this too the attention of the otheir boaters and as such safe guarding them and their use of the water ways .

, i would be very pleased to buy you a drink of yr choice , if yr passing , bye , as a thankyou so feel free to PM me .

 

it would perhaps be nice if the local papers got hold of the story as such , my friends a fisherman and he was disgusted and said he would not wish to share the river bank with such types .

the main thing is that you got through what was a unplesant situation and came out the far side safe and sound , by getting the situation under control , i dont think i would have managed it that well . myself , so take a pat on the back and well done

edit to add

ps , yes perhaps someone should report this to the local police

Edited May 20, 2013 by ackdaw

[little duck!]

we passed several fisherman yesterday and though this incident is rare it does make you think, I am always nervous of fisherman anyway as i worry about them getting their rods out of the way in time as some seem to leave it right to the last minute. we did get shouted at on the caldon last year by a very grumpy fisherman. What do you do if there is a lone fisherman and no moored boats and you give a wide enough berth, do you slow down a bit or tickover or what, on speaking to some fisherman some prefer you near the bank some prefer you further away, some like you to slow and others dont, think it's a no win situation for boaters.

[Mike Tee]

Slow down, straight down the middle. Can't please all of them, so I stay consistant. And don't worry about them getting their rods out of the way, they are apparantly very expensive, so its their responsibility.

[mayalld]

we passed several fisherman yesterday and though this incident is rare it does make you think, I am always nervous of fisherman anyway as i worry about them getting their rods out of the way in time as some seem to leave it right to the last minute. we did get shouted at on the caldon last year by a very grumpy fisherman. What do you do if there is a lone fisherman and no moored boats and you give a wide enough berth, do you slow down a bit or tickover or what, on speaking to some fisherman some prefer you near the bank some prefer you further away, some like you to slow and others dont, think it's a no win situation for boaters.

 

As a non-angler, I have absolutely no idea where an angler may prefer my boat to be (near him or give him a wide berth), and it appears that there is no one answer to this. It isn't reasonable of the angler to expect you to know where will affect his fishing least.

 

Some anglers will wave arms about indicating where they want you to go. You need to keep in mind that they have no idea how to steer a boat, and will be utterly unaware of whether what they want is remotely possible (I've had anglers wave madly at me to come close in on a tight bend, that would have made it impossible to steer out again).

 

So....

 

I pass anglers at tickover, and in the exact position in the channel as if they weren't there (usually midstream). If there is another boat coming the other way, I will pass him as if the angler wasn't there. If that means that we pass where the angler is, then sorry, but that is how the cookie crumbles.

[Guest]

we passed several fisherman yesterday and though this incident is rare it does make you think, I am always nervous of fisherman anyway as i worry about them getting their rods out of the way in time as some seem to leave it right to the last minute. we did get shouted at on the caldon last year by a very grumpy fisherman. What do you do if there is a lone fisherman and no moored boats and you give a wide enough berth, do you slow down a bit or tickover or what, on speaking to some fisherman some prefer you near the bank some prefer you further away, some like you to slow and others dont, think it's a no win situation for boaters.

 

I understand the reason they leave it to the last minute is because fish can swim ahead of your boat and it increases their chance of a catch. I don't know this to be 100% correct but we have seen fish caught just ahead of a our boat on a couple of occasions.

 

I pass anglers at tickover, and in the exact position in the channel as if they weren't there (usually midstream). If there is another boat coming the other way, I will pass him as if the angler wasn't there. If that means that we pass where the angler is, then sorry, but that is how the cookie crumbles.

 

pretty much what we do, particularly as very often they treat you as if you aren't there if you try to engage in any form of greeting.

[johnmck]

Canal fishing in our area has a start date of which I understand is the normal time stated by the angling association no matter what canal it is.

 

I have just read this and remain confused!

 

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Leisure/Canals_close_season_-_final.pdf

 

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/fishing/37951.aspx

Edited May 20, 2013 by johnmck