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Gas Water Heaters - Boat Safety Certificate compliant?


BarnOwl

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Hello everyone,

 

I've bought a 47ft Narrowboat and will be starting to live aboard very shortly. One of the things on the (ever growing!) list that I want to take a look at is the water heating. The boat is relatively young in years (2007) and hot water is coming from a calorifer fed from and heated by the boat engine. This has been working great whilst cruising however on a long term basis, when I'm moored up for a week or two at a time I don't want to keep starting the engine every day just to get a shower in and wash the dishes...

 

I'm not going to have shore power available and having had a look and the option which keeps coming up are gas water heaters (Alde, Morco etc) However I was of the understanding that these could now not be installed under the new guidelines set out in the boat safety certificate?

 

My certificate is due in on October, so I want to look in to an option that'll pass through no prob's... guess theres always a kettle and a bowl! :)

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - and thanks for all the comments and posts on the forum to date, they've been so useful!

 

 

 

Cheers,

Andy

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The BSS allows a properly fitted gas water heater, even a non room-sealed one, which is really your only sensible option if looking for an "instantaneous heater".

 

Note you have mentioned Alde and Morco - these are two different things.

 

A Morco is an "instantaneous heater" that heats the water as it passes through, and has no reservoir to store heated water. It could not be used to heat the water in a calorifier.

 

An Alde, on the other hand, is a boiler that is designed to run central heating and/or heat stored hot water in a calorifier.

If you fit the latter, room sealed (balanced flue) options are the way to go, but although these are available in a Morco too, the result is not really practical for boat use, and, for an instantaneous heater, the usual solution is to fit a non room-sealed version, because the "balanced flue" models need long external flues that can't be modified to pass under canal bridges!

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As Alan has said, there are pros and cons to both options, although, like you, i wouldn't want to be reliant on my engine as my only source of hot water.

 

Alde - Pro's: You make use of your existing calorifier and it gives you hot radiators too. Con's: More expensive to buy, no instant hot water, probably not worth it if you don't want or have central heating.

 

Morco (or Rinnai, Paloma etc.) - Pro's: Cheaper to buy and fit, only heats the amount of water you actually need, instant. Con's: Doesn't get the water as hot which could give you luke-warm showers in winter.

 

Personally if I was in your shoes, I'd go for the Morco unless you want central heating too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey guys, apologies for the late reply... I've just moved aboard in the last week so I'm still without a readily available internet connection!

 

Thanks for your thoughts though, I'm gonna see how things work out running off the calorifier for the mo and then go from there. I do think the Morco would be the better option though, once I've got a little more settled!

 

Thanks again,

Andy

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10 - 14 litres of hot water won 't fill your bath though, will it?

I've got a Truma that has a tank like that.... 12 litres that don't come close to providing even a quick shower. I'll be fitting an instant gas water heater of some kind.

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when I'm moored up for a week or two at a time I don't want to keep starting the engine every day just to get a shower in and wash the dishes...

 

I'm not going to have shore power available and having had a look and the option which keeps coming up are gas water heaters (Alde, Morco etc) However I was of the understanding that these could now not be installed under the new guidelines set out in the boat safety certificate?

 

Cheers,

Andy

Andy,

 

A few of the gas experts here have responded to this type of query previously - I think Mike The Boilerman usually pops up with either his take on the issue, or with a link to a previous response.

 

I think the issue is that you "can" have a non room sealed gas water heater fitted to comply with the BSS, but that it might be difficult to find a Gas Safe LPG engineer willing to fit one.

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Andy,

 

A few of the gas experts here have responded to this type of query previously - I think Mike The Boilerman usually pops up with either his take on the issue, or with a link to a previous response.

 

I think the issue is that you "can" have a non room sealed gas water heater fitted to comply with the BSS, but that it might be difficult to find a Gas Safe LPG engineer willing to fit one.

 

This old chestnut hasn't cropped up on the boards for several weeks now so I've forgotten the answer :)

 

As Richard says, use of the search box will reveal.

 

I think rob@BSSoffice wrote a pretty definitive post on the issue about a month back.

 

 

MtB

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Andy,

 

A few of the gas experts here have responded to this type of query previously - I think Mike The Boilerman usually pops up with either his take on the issue, or with a link to a previous response.

 

I think the issue is that you "can" have a non room sealed gas water heater fitted to comply with the BSS, but that it might be difficult to find a Gas Safe LPG engineer willing to fit one.

 

Yeah, this is what I'm a bit worried about... I wouldn't want to get anything fitted by someone without the appropriate expertise or safety certification. I have been talking to an engineer and he is recommending this unit; http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-5-3/Water_Heaters/F11E.html

 

He's saying its the only one that would pass a BSS as its room sealed and uses an electric ignition for the pilot light, rather than having it constantly running. I am going to email the boat safety examiner I'lll be using (the certificates up in october) to get his thoughts before we start cutting holes in anything ;)

 

Also, I know one of the big things about instant gas heaters is them being 'room sealed'. The unit above is described as 'room sealed' as (to my basic understanding) the air to ignite the flame heater is being sourced externally through the flue... but would this unit also need to be actually in a sealed room within the boat... sorry little bit confused! wacko.png

 

Thanks for your help so far!

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Yeah, this is what I'm a bit worried about... I wouldn't want to get anything fitted by someone without the appropriate expertise or safety certification. I have been talking to an engineer and he is recommending this unit; http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-5-3/Water_Heaters/F11E.html

 

He's saying its the only one that would pass a BSS as its room sealed and uses an electric ignition for the pilot light, rather than having it constantly running. I am going to email the boat safety examiner I'lll be using (the certificates up in october) to get his thoughts before we start cutting holes in anything wink.png

 

Also, I know one of the big things about instant gas heaters is them being 'room sealed'. The unit above is described as 'room sealed' as (to my basic understanding) the air to ignite the flame heater is being sourced externally through the flue... but would this unit also need to be actually in a sealed room within the boat... sorry little bit confused! wacko.png

 

Thanks for your help so far!

 

 

I strongly advise you to search the previous threads on this and/or ask BSS directly before accepting this engineer's advice. The BSS office are very helpful if you phone them.

 

A permanent pilot light (or not) has nothing to do with BSS compliance so he may be getting other stuff wrong too. Is he Gas Safe Registered to fit LPG on boats according to his ID card and listing on the GSR site?

 

No gas appliance EVER needs to be sealed into a room. 'Room sealed' means the combustion chamber inside the appliance is sealed from the room it is installed within and draws combustion air from outside, as opposed to open to the room where it is installed, and draws combustion air from the room atmosphere.

 

I suggest calling the BSS office. They'll put you straight with authority.

 

MtB

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Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the clarification! I've got to say, electric ignition might be a mix up on my part (especially given my previous understanding of room sealing! :) ) ...

 

I'm having a hunt through the other posts but will definitely take your advice and contact the BSS directly to get their thoughts. I've only spoken to the engineer over the phone at the moment but if I continue to liaise with him up to a meeting, I'll be requesting he bring his gas safe documents and registrations... also I know of a couple of places where I should able to find out about his previous jobs etc. to see if anyone's got any horror stories. Hopefully not!

 

 

Cheers,

Andy

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Yeah, this is what I'm a bit worried about... I wouldn't want to get anything fitted by someone without the appropriate expertise or safety certification. I have been talking to an engineer and he is recommending this unit; http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-5-3/Water_Heaters/F11E.html

I would politely suggest that you look at previous threads about trying to, (or failure to!) fit the Morco F11E balance flue model in cruising narrow boats.

 

If you can find anybody who has successfully done so, can stick with the manufacters approved flue, and can still get under bridges, please come back and tell us, because so far I have not heard of one.

 

This unit is only suitable to static boats, or those on waterways where a seriously high permanently mounted flue is a possibility.

 

Consensus is that it is useless for canals.

 

Is your engineer experienced in fitting to canal boats? I can't imagine he can be?

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Yeah, I'll definitely be doing that! Thanks for your thoughts so far... the conundrum of a balanced flue, gas water heater seems to be coming to light, bit of a holy grail from what I'm reading?! It's just annoying as its not the 'instant' heat I really need, I'd just like a back up / alternative to the calorifer to save the engine. The other options I'm finding, like Alde are really more suited for central heating systems and a lot more expensive!

 

I sourced the engineer from a boaters site and he does work specifically on marine bits. However, I'm becoming sceptical as I've checked his website and his gas registration number isn't recognised... plus I'm surprised he is offering product given so many people have had issues with it. Tbh, he's London based and I think is used to dealing with boaters who aren't moving a great deal (but that is not a discussion I'm starting here ;) )

 

 

 

BarnOwl Andy,

You've just received a couple of warning comments about the engineer's advice. Please heed them.

Contact the BSS office (Rob@BSSOffice is a member on here) - and get 100% reliable advice. Please.

 

Trust me, warning is well and truly heeded... definitely won't be rushing in to anything. The search continues! biggrin.png

 

Thanks guys and girls

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Go Diesel...Gas too Risky cheers.gif

 

Don't be silly. Gas is perfectly safe if installed correctly. The main problem is peeps who think they know it all, when they don't.

 

Just sayin'. Plenty here will disagree with me!

 

 

MtB

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Tis true. My Bro in Law is Gas safe for boats, I do the Petrol & Diesel Heaters. I just love the smell of diesel. smile.png

 

Petrol heaters?? I'm intrigued. Do tell more...!

 

I love the smell of diesel too, but not as much as creosote. Shame it seems to have been banned. Creosote that is.

 

 

MtB

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I would politely suggest that you look at previous threads about trying to, (or failure to!) fit the Morco F11E balance flue model in cruising narrow boats.

 

If you can find anybody who has successfully done so, can stick with the manufacters approved flue, and can still get under bridges, please come back and tell us, because so far I have not heard of one.

 

This unit is only suitable to static boats, or those on waterways where a seriously high permanently mounted flue is a possibility.

I'll politely suggest it's fine if the flue goes horizontally though the back wall/bulkhead, that may be a bit impractical on a NB, but should be quite doable on a WB.

 

That said a F11E is probably OTT for the OPs needs and most have a Morco D61.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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The BSS allows a properly fitted gas water heater, even a non room-sealed one, which is really your only sensible option if looking for an "instantaneous heater".

 

Actually, being picky beyond belief, no it doesn't. And here's the explanation:

 

The BSS Guide, Section 7 LPG in boats, has a inspection checklist. The first item in the checklist says the installation must comply with BS 5482-3. Online version HERE

 

BS 5482-3 is the same as PD 5482-3

 

From PD 5482-3: Section 6: Selection of appliances

6.1 General

Appliances should be recommended by the manufacturers as suitable for use in a marine environment.

Appliances should be room sealed (with the exception of cooking appliances and conventionally flued

instantaneous water heaters used for replacement purposes).

 

A newly installed instantaneous open flued water heater therefore does not comply with BSS unless it replaced a previously installed one. Rob@BSSoffice has posted here however that this requirement is not enforced due to the absence of a universally suitable room sealed instantaneous water heater on the market.

 

 

MtB

 

P.S.

 

I have overlooked a point of perpetual debate. When push comes to shove, does "should" mean "must" when compliance with a BS or PD is being considered?

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