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Rock Doves, Mice, Rats etc are riddled with salmonella picked up from something they ate, that would be rubbish dumped by man.

I am not sure riddled is the correct word.

 

Feral Pigeons (which are what I assume you mean by Rock doves) have been shown in London to have 2.25% of feacal samples containing Salmonella

 

Rats vary according to population but taking the West Midlands 8% infected

 

I don't have figures for mice in UK to hand but if America is anything to go by 13.6 in 100,000 (I assume the decimal point is due to some mathematical calculation reducing the number to a standard in 100,000).

 

EDIT: It was figures like these which made me ask for your references so that I could compare your information with mine.

Edited by Jerra
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So what happened in the "old days" before pump outs or cassettes? I seem to remember that when I used to go on the Norfolk Broads it just went into the river and I can't remember what happened when we hired a canal boat in the seventies - can't remember pumping out?

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Scary stuff ... Should we be afraid? should we all sell our boats because we can't empty our washing up water into the cut any longer.

 

Do I detect the faint whiff of bullshit

 

 

 

Hmm - actually no. Pollution legislation is quite complex but very clear. Its all a question of degrees. Boat grey water, as it is usually free of body wastes, is very low in bacterial count. In addition, its polluting capacity is also low - not far off treated sewage effluent. Taken in the round, then the EA and its predessesor organisations have taken a view that the polluting impact, whilst technically present, would not be in the public interest to pursue and is hence ignored.

 

When I worked, if a house had its washing machine or sink misdirected to a stream, we would advise the owner to reroute to the sewer, but we never ever, to my recolection, took anyone to court for not doing so.

 

However, with sewage based discharges, it is definately different.

 

A huge topic, but bullshit - not.

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So what happened in the "old days" before pump outs or cassettes? I seem to remember that when I used to go on the Norfolk Broads it just went into the river and I can't remember what happened when we hired a canal boat in the seventies - can't remember pumping out?

Certainly when I was on a narrowboat in the 70s it went straight into the canal.

 

I am puzzled as to why anyone should think it is acceptable to flick dog crap into the canal if dumping our waste in isn't!

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Hmm - actually no. Pollution legislation is quite complex but very clear. Its all a question of degrees. Boat grey water, as it is usually free of body wastes, is very low in bacterial count. In addition, its polluting capacity is also low - not far off treated sewage effluent. Taken in the round, then the EA and its predessesor organisations have taken a view that the polluting impact, whilst technically present, would not be in the public interest to pursue and is hence ignored.

 

When I worked, if a house had its washing machine or sink misdirected to a stream, we would advise the owner to reroute to the sewer, but we never ever, to my recolection, took anyone to court for not doing so.

 

However, with sewage based discharges, it is definately different.

 

A huge topic, but bullshit - not.

Bull shit yes....as I said I await my day in court......

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So what happened in the "old days" before pump outs or cassettes? I seem to remember that when I used to go on the Norfolk Broads it just went into the river and I can't remember what happened when we hired a canal boat in the seventies - can't remember pumping out?

 

In the good old days it was not an offence. The first relevent Act came out with the Rivers(Prevention of Pollution) Act 1951 covering discharges made after that date. The R(PoP)Act 1961 then brought discharges made or occuring before 1951 into line.

 

But for vessels, it has always been a little tricky as they are mobile. These were usually controlled by byelaws made locally. Enforcement of these was usually based on theory rather than practice as the systems to deal with waste were limited. It was only as a result of increased eutrophication of the rivers and the problems caused by treating it for human consumption, that facilities were built and the byelaws enforced.

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I've seen plenty of cattle weeing and pooing in the canals and especially in the Thames. What's the difference? Why aren't they stopped?

I would suspect because there is some ancient access to water for the farm when the canal was built. It is like a few other idiosyncrasies in modern life. For example if alcohol were new and there was a decision to be made about whether to allow it or not I am fairly sure it wouldn't be allowed.

 

However if you were to take look at it that way why don't we still allow human waste into the canal? Surely it is best to keep out as much of any possible problem as we can. Dog waste like human waste is something we can easily keep out of the canal cows however may not be so easy if the farmer has a right to water the animals.

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I've seen plenty of cattle weeing and pooing in the canals and especially in the Thames. What's the difference? Why aren't they stopped?

 

Steps are already taken. Again, usually the view is taken that the impact of a few animals is low. That said, many farmers now who wish to take advantage of subsidies such as Countryside Stewardship are required to fence off rivers and streams and provide a fresh water supply. The fencing off also reduces bankside erosion and hence river siltation.

 

But yes, it still goes on and yes, it seems like double standards.

 

@rustykev

 

Rivers?

 

??????

 

I am puzzled as to why anyone should think it is acceptable to flick dog crap into the canal if dumping our waste in isn't!

 

Its not. The issues all relate to faecal matter.

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So what happened in the "old days" before pump outs or cassettes? I seem to remember that when I used to go on the Norfolk Broads it just went into the river and I can't remember what happened when we hired a canal boat in the seventies - can't remember pumping out?

It either went straight into the cut or they provided you with a shovel & you dug a hole in a field.

 

I was on a hire boat in the 60s which went straight into the canal. When we got to the Thames at Oxford, we had to change to a bucket. All rather strange when you think that the Oxford Canal was discharging crap into the Thames anyway.

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Yes, I thought that it all went into the canal/broads. I can't remember it being all that bad then, but perhaps we were all less sensitive? Reading some of these posts I'm getting really worried as I live on a farm and I don't think I'm going to be able to persuade the farmer to bag everything - there really is shit absolutely everywhere. What can I do?

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You know that and I know that but there are a number including some on this forum who do think it is acceptable.

 

oooooo sussed it = somebody has got the definition of black and grey confused (not me BTW)

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I do believe that because we have become obsessed with cleanliness anti bacterial wipes for everything children are brought up in a enviroment where the slightest bugs down them , I have no medical evidence to back this up just hear my mum saying a bit of muck wont hurt you .

There's certainly some truth in the "bit of muck wont hurt you" theory (although probably not a bit of dogs muck!). Lack of exposure to all the bugs and germs and allergens as a youngster, doctors think is linked with Atopy. It means you're predispositioned to be prone to allergic hypersensitivity. I know because I have Atopic syndrome and nope, it doesn't mean I've got a hazelnut in every bite. :P

Edited by BlueStringPudding
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For gardeners It can be looked on as a resource. Why flush away a decent resource wasting potable grade water in the process?

 

The best way to use it it to dilute it before pouring round a plant.

 

National trust have some places where the men toliet involves pee-ing on straw and this is composted.

 

Mark

 

Looked at chemically, pissing on vegitation can be contrued as good for the plant. Urine contains urea which, once it is outside the body quickly forms ammonia, itslef oxidised by natural bacteria to nitrates, nitrites and ultimately nitrogen. As we all know, nitrates/nitrogen are good for plants - helps them grow.

Edited by mark99
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Generaly speaking any animal that feeds on vegetation only tends to produce good fertilizing poo, meat eating animals tend to produce poo that can be more harmful to humans, although e-coli and the likes are found in all animal excreements, So perhaps human poo from a vegetarian is different lol not sure on that one.

The terrm vermin comes from any creature that can reproduce quickly and is harmful to humans whether it be by infestation or the carrying of bacteria again harmful to humans, and also cannot be wiped out by us , really you got to think natures pretty clever we think we are so good messing with things and making things supposably safer, when there are creatures like the rat, that at any time they reckon you are no more than 3 foot away from one, despite all the poisons we have used trying to get rid of them are still there and breeding, land fill is a crap idea where I dont hold much faith in climate change and the such like dumping our waste into holes is going to come and bite us big time, the solution sorry dont know wish I did.

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Once upon a time when we all as kids played in the street the pavements were literally littered with dog poo, especially along the front garden hedges and fences, but will all took the poo ''not home'' but for granted and thought nothing of it.

We'd play all the usual street games like Hop Scotch, Marbles ''though I lost mine ages ago'' five stones and many other games most of which involved groveling about on the pavement or gutter. We were also always knocking up different soapbox carts or ''Trolleys'' we called em. Anyway all these games ect were played in close contact with the ground and therefore needless to say we were forever treading in dog poo, tumbling off our trolleys and rolling in dog poo, everything we did had to be worked around the dog poo. The poo was always at its worst and stickiest when fresh on a hot day so we always kept a keen eye on all the little Mongrel dogs that seemed to be always trotting about and to make mental notes of where they did it. During a heatwave the dog poo problem didn't seem quite so bad as it quickly dried up and the hot sun leached out the brown colour and left it a sort of bleached crumbly white colour that resembled quite a tasty looking Merangue cake. Yes we were quite fond of it, it was part of the scene although a bit of a hazard but we would have genuinely missed it if it hadn't been there. I honestly can't remember a single day going by when we didn't go in without having made contact somehow or other with the dog poo. What with my memories of folk all smelling of stew and kids stinking of dog poo it was quite a smellious childhood really. I don't remember any kids catching any terrible diseases because of it though. smile.png

Wow! that took me back a lot of years, have a greenie.

 

Keith

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What happens to bagged and binned dog poo?

 

Curious.

I used to have a workshop near to where I lived. The owner of the units was a dirty old bugger. He trained greyhounds. At the end of the lane he had a trailer that was about 8'x4' filled up with black bin bags bursting with shit. Sometimes it would be 5' high. Every now and then he'd give the dust men a drink and they would lob them in the wagon with the rest of the rubbish. Theses and smell was unbelievable. Edited by fudd
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when there are creatures like the rat, that at any time they reckon you are no more than 3 foot away from one,

I am afraid this is urban myth a recent study of rats in cities showed the distance (on average as obviously sometimes you are close and other not) to be nearer 100 metres.

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Wow! that took me back a lot of years, have a greenie.

 

Keith

Thanks. Just remembered. We also raced the 1950's Dinky racing cars ''2/6p for years'' along the pavements by flicking them to start by a thumb placed behind the drivers metal head that stuck up, well more often than not these also would run into freshly deposited sticky dogs poo that were handy crash barriers resembling the modern day F1 heaps of old crash barrier tyres. Many times that dog poo saved a drivers life, or the car would plop down a drain hole in the gutter drowning its driver and lost forever. We always noted the drains that our cars plummeted down and tried to be present when the big councils drain-sucker lorry turned up to suck em out in the hope that we'd be reunited with our Dinky racer but it never came to pass. Our marbles would also frequently collide with the poo, and five stones would often spill over into it and burying themselves which meant us digging about in it with lolly sticks and cleaning em up by wiping them on our jersey or hanky which mum always complained about whilst scrubbing us clean and always remarking that cleanliness was next to godliness which I always interpreted as cleanliness is next to doglimess.mellow.png

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So back to the OP I would say its all a matter of degree and concentration. Lots of pooing and peeing into waterways goes on, from animals, birds and fish. I confess to peeing in the basin sometimes, or off the back of the boat when no-one's looking, but don't feel that's too disgusting because its well diluted and gets dealt with by natural processes.

 

So I suppose its possible that someone might empty a cassette with a bit of overnight pee in it and not feel too bad about it. However a tank full of solids is another matter entirely because its too concentrated and often floats! And if it also contains Blue/formaldehyde that is really bad.

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Not an urban myth but was put out by I think the publicc health cannot be bothered to look it up, mainly to try and teach people to be more responsible with waste disposal, but like i said I worked on a farm where rats are for ever present no matter what you do.

Off post quite a bit so I apologise, but I stand by my we should be careful what we put in the cut, bad enough in the weed hatch trying to remove someones disgarded item without it being covered in dog poo, never mind the enviroment.

  • Greenie 1
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