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I would say that the benefits were to other casual users of towpaths in that applying for a permit also made the cyclist aware of the do's and don'ts of cycling on a shared facility.

OK fair enough.

 

I think that I would probably have taken an alternate view that said that any cyclist who got as far as knowing a permit was required, and actually printing one off was likely to be in the "more responsible" camp anyway, and probably not one of the ones likely to attract attention by behaving inappropriately.

 

I can't imagine many of the ones that upset people ever actually having bothered to go through the process, and as nobody ever checked if you had, or did not have one, I think BW were right to let them quietly die a death.

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What I cannot understand is the current lack of licensing for cyclists on canal towpaths. I remember in the days of BWB cyclists had to have a permit to cycle on towpaths (I still have one!) but since the formation of CRT this seems to have been destined into history.

I think there was a campaign of mass disobedience by cyclists (perhaps on the K & A) so BW just gave up trying.

 

What a pity boaters don't do the same.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Of course if a cyclist, (or walker, or angler, or any other canal user), is s UK tax payer then they already do make a financial contribution to CRT funds, albeit no more than someone who doesn't choose to visit those waterways for any reason. But most of us pay, even if not boat owners.

The problem as a boatowner is that you pay twice.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

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I don't think it had anything to do with the formation of CRT, did it? Surely the requirement was dropped before then, under British Waterways?

 

As the total requirement was to log onto a website and print off your own piece of paper, and, as nobody ever checked them anyway, in my experience, it would seem to me that the right thing was done in discontinuing it.

 

What evidence do you have that the old arrangements gave any benefits whatsoever?

 

The requirement was dropped nationally at the same time as the BW->CRT switch, though it had already been dropped on the London canals (as part of Two Tings), the K&A (as part of the towpath maintenance/cycling charge deal) and the Scottish canals (because it was illegal under Scottish access law).

 

One (and perhaps the main) reason it was kept in latter years was to drive traffic to Waterscape. Honestly!

Edited by Richard Fairhurst
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  • 4 weeks later...

Its gone on for years. We noticed them tearing up the K and A when we lived on it over twenty years ago. Still the same and getting worse.

Its best I have noticed when the hedges have just been cut cos the peeps never clean up after themselves and quite a few bike tyres get punctured which is always good to see. The down side can be that dogs which are far more important than cyclists sometimes get injured by the thorns.

 

Tim

I do not know whereabouts you live - but her in the North the problem is dealt with very efficiently by those elderly gentleman you see quietly sitting fishing in the water. Their fishing rods just happen to stretch right across the towpath, and these elderly fisherman cannot possibly move fast to move them!

Wait for it! I have even seen a car drive along the towpath - soon there will be traffic jams!

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I'm collecting a whole bunch of CRT's thorny cuttings, for re-distribution near any mooring I care to use. They can be scattered about innocently, in places of frequent high-speed Lycra -clad towpath traffic.

 

What, you may well ask, about the well-behaved innocent families on a Sunday ride to the pub?

 

Well, if I've deployed my 'spikes', I'll be there to monitor it. And I'll stop them, to advise them about a pile of ill-considered over-enthusiastic CRT gardening, efforts just ahead of them.

 

The extra effort on my part will be well-rewarded. I'm not big or hard enough to chuck a beefy Lycra-clad nerd into the canal, so I have to resort to more devious means.

 

Hope this helps. To rid the towpath of knobs. Sorry. We'll not really. Ha!

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quite a few bike tyres get punctured which is always good to see

 

That's a rather vindictive thing to say, don't you think? I'm a dedicated and considerate cyclist. I make a point of it, because I recognise the tension that simple bad behaviour causes on the towpath. I dismount when necessary to give way to people on foot if the way is narrow; I cycle past slowly and with warning if there's space to pass abreast. Punctures - mostly from thorns from hedgerow trimming - are a pain that I put up with for the pleasure and usefulness of being able to use the towpath to travel between my boat and 'civilisation'. I don't seek to blame anyone for placing thorns in my path. I'm pretty fed-up with the passive behaviour of just a few walkers and a fair few boaters when I approach (at a slow pace) on my bike. This behaviour includes conspicuously *not* stepping aside when it would cost nothing to pause for the few seconds it would take me to pass without dismounting (and, by the way) a mounted cyclist passes more quickly and occupies less towpath space than one walking their bike!); it has also included (Braunston couple - you know who you are) the above plus petty tutting and muttering as I cycled slowly past on a double-track width segment.

  • Greenie 1
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hmmm... as an avid and considerate cyclist, it does seem unfair to be tarred with the same brush as unconsiderate cyclists.. but that is life .

 

.you will always get unconsiderate people in all walks of life.. and that also includes some boaters ;)

 

moi always dismounts when approaching people and so far have not had any sarky comments as I walk past people..

 

p.s. when moi first bought my boat i popped into the toll place at Braunston and asked the lady on duty where I could buy a cycle licence and was informed that I didnt need one!! therefore if it was made compulsory then moi dont see it as any kind of problem to buy one.. because I love riding my cycle and it helps me get around and also reduces my carbon footprint ;)

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I do not know whereabouts you live - but her in the North the problem is dealt with very efficiently by those elderly gentleman you see quietly sitting fishing in the water. Their fishing rods just happen to stretch right across the towpath, and these elderly fisherman cannot possibly move fast to move them!

Wait for it! I have even seen a car drive along the towpath - soon there will be traffic jams!

 

So causing a trip hazard for others including boaters and walkers is seen as the way to solve the problem.

 

That is just double standards isn't it?

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Cyclists do seem to be a channel for a certain type of really unpleasant nastyness in some people don't they? I suspect it may have a lot to do with good old fashioned bigotry and hate that can't these days find an acceptable outlet vented against other 'out-groups' of the past like homosexuals, immigrants, people with different coloured skin, young people etc.

It is a human condition to hate those who are not like oneself or don't behave the same, class them up e.g. 'cyclists' and then to dress that hatred up in all sorts of self-serving rationale until it feels fully justified. It does start with hate though.

  • Greenie 1
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Cyclists do seem to be a channel for a certain type of really unpleasant nastyness in some people don't they? I suspect it may have a lot to do with good old fashioned bigotry and hate that can't these days find an acceptable outlet vented against other 'out-groups' of the past like homosexuals, immigrants, people with different coloured skin, young people etc.

It is a human condition to hate those who are not like oneself or don't behave the same, class them up e.g. 'cyclists' and then to dress that hatred up in all sorts of self-serving rationale until it feels fully justified. It does start with hate though.

WTF are you on about?

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Cyclists do seem to be a channel for a certain type of really unpleasant nastyness in some people don't they? I suspect it may have a lot to do with good old fashioned bigotry and hate that can't these days find an acceptable outlet vented against other 'out-groups' of the past like homosexuals, immigrants, people with different coloured skin, young people etc.

It is a human condition to hate those who are not like oneself or don't behave the same, class them up e.g. 'cyclists' and then to dress that hatred up in all sorts of self-serving rationale unt

il it feels fully justified. It does start with hate though.

 

May I swim against the tide somewhat and say that I do understand what he is saying.

 

I believe he is talking about the demonisation of various groups of people. The Nazis persuaded many people that the Jews were evil in every way. CS Lewis in "The Screwtape Letters" talked about the way that many British demonised the Germans in the war. He went on to say that the people who reviled and found all Germans evil were quite likely, on meeting a German Pilot who had been shot down near to their home, would immediately offer him tea and cigarettes. Mr Lewis was pointing out that, as soon as personal contact is made the the demonisation ceased to apply to the person sitting at your kitchen table.

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May I swim against the tide somewhat and say that I do understand what he is saying.

 

I believe he is talking about the demonisation of various groups of people. The Nazis persuaded many people that the Jews were evil in every way. CS Lewis in "The Screwtape Letters" talked about the way that many British demonised the Germans in the war. He went on to say that the people who reviled and found all Germans evil were quite likely, on meeting a German Pilot who had been shot down near to their home, would immediately offer him tea and cigarettes. Mr Lewis was pointing out that, as soon as personal contact is made the the demonisation ceased to apply to the person sitting at your kitchen table.

 

That doesn't work though because some cyclists 'demonize' other road users - notably car drivers and artic. lorry drivers in particular.

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That doesn't work though because some cyclists 'demonize' other road users - notably car drivers and artic. lorry drivers in particular.

But some of them (probably not the majority) have also demonised pedestrians in their way, and this is what has provoked the reaction, which in this case is not opposite and equal.

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That doesn't work though because some cyclists 'demonize' other road users - notably car drivers and artic. lorry drivers in particular.

 

If you put the word 'some' in front of a sentence almost anything becomes true!

Daniel

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