When you are frozen in?

[Jerra]

Never having had the pleasure of boating when it is winter the current forecast of hard frost started me thinking.

 

I know people do get frozen in and I started to wonder about the whys and wherefores. I can see that it certainly won't do the blacking any good but what other reasons are there?

 

Damage to the anodes? Damage to the prop? Locks etc not working properly due to ice? The boat not being able to break the ice (how think would it have to be)? Damage to other boats due to skidding pieces of ice has been suggested to me.

 

Choice - its preferable to be inside and warm?

 

What are the reasons/problems I know it has probably been "done to death before" and I am probably showing my ignorance but I would like to know.

[Paul C]

Only limited experience but you pretty much have covered most of the issues. In ice, going straight is okay but turning can be tricky due to the ice forcing you into a straight path. Reversing is very dodgy due to the rudder likely getting caught on ice, can't really ice break backwards. And the sheets of ice sliding around and hitting other boats is a concern too. Apart from these, locks are troublesome because the gate can be a pain to get open with ice around; and the areas around them are very slippery.

[alan_fincher]

Buying an "ice enabled" boat can help......

 

[ChimneyChain]

Out of interest how affected was that boat at breaking ice. Was it designed to ride up on the ice and crash down on it or was it desighed to cut through the ice. Was it also used as a tug to push barges, also what goes on the front where those loose bolts are, does the ram extend right down to the bottom of the stem post. I've not seen i dont think many photos of this boat or sickle breaking ice. Thanks

 

Darren

Edited March 9, 2013 by ChimneyChain

[blackrose]

Buying an "ice enabled" boat can help......

 

 

But the ice enabler doesn't do much in terms of the boat's aesthetics. Not in my opinion at least.

[alan_fincher]

But the ice enabler doesn't do much in terms of the boat's aesthetics. Not in my opinion at least.

Fair enough, they work reasonably well, even with it removed......

 

 

[blackrose]

Choice - its preferable to be inside and warm?

 

Yes.

 

I know there are some people who like boating in any conditions. There are also people who like swimming in the Serpentine in the depths of winter. Each to their own. Personally I'd rather be inside and warm.

 

Fair enough, they work reasonably well, even with it removed......

 

 

I'm glad it comes off! Does Sickle ice break better than any other boat?

 

Surely any boat will do that if you don't care about the blacking?

Edited March 9, 2013 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

Out of interest how affected was that boat at breaking ice. Was it designed to ride up on the ice and crash down on it or was it desighed to cut through the ice. Was it also used as a tug to push barges, also what goes on the front where those loose bolts are, does the ram extend right down to the bottom of the stem post. I've not seen i dont think many photos of this boat or sickle breaking ice. Thanks

 

Darren

I'm told they were fairly effective, but at the end of the day, they were just working boats suitably modified.

 

I have always assumed the intention was to keep trying to get the bow to rise up, so as you suggest it is bearing down on the ice, and helping to smash it by downward force. I've not seen video of this boat ("Tycho") doing it, so I don't know how much the ram actually made the difference versus just trying to power through with brute power. Yes the ram goes right down to the bottom of the stem, I think, and bolted to the front was a large demi-circular (I think!) piece of hardwood, (oak probably), which I assume "Speedwheel" wil reinstate at some stage.

 

This is "Sickle" breaking ice before we owned her, but she lost the ram years ago.

 

 

I'm told on the Apsley section a newer boat, "Snowdrop", was used in preference to "Sickle" or "Renton" once it was delivered, (early 1960s I think).

 

You can see the intention of the bow shape was very much to ride up onto, then "fall through" the ice.

 

 

I'm glad it comes off! Does Sickle ice break better than any other boat?

 

Surely any boat will do that if you don't care about the blacking?

I think a big 3 cylinder Lister HA, connected to a 26" diameter prop plays a very large part in it, (although it retained its original 18HP Russell Newbery when it was first converted by the Ministry of War Transport, and that must have done the job).

 

I'm totally confident that "Chalice", with its BMC 1.8 and 17" blades couldn't break ice half that thick, despite the BMC being nominally a higher horsepower on paper, (but delivering very much less torque, of course).

 

Sickle's blades sweep an are more than 2.3 times that swept by those on Chalice - something I'm in danger of forgetting when I try and get Chalice to stop as fast as Sickle can!

[blackrose]

There seem to be plenty of videos of "ordinary" narrowboats breaking ice on You Tube.

 

Edited March 9, 2013 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

There seem to be plenty of videos of "ordinary" narrowboats breaking ice on You Tube.

 

Indeed,

 

How thick the ice is will vary considerably though!

 

This isn't our video, and I wasn't there, but "Sickle" is breaking about 3" on average here, I would guess, and still needs to be reversed for runs into it every so often. I think the majority of leisure boats with BMCs/Isuzus/Beta/Nannis etc would struggle to even do that consistently. I doubt "Chalice" would break much over 1".

 

For comparison, here is some video I tool of a modern BW push tug ice-breaking. The ice here is a lot thinner though - probably 2" maximum.

 

Edited March 9, 2013 by alan_fincher

[Simon (Hawksmoor)]

Breaking ice up to 1/2" thick is no problem.

It may do a little damage to your blacking near the waterline.

Steering can be tricky. The pointy end wants to keep going in the direction you started in. You sometimes need to reverse back a few yards adjust and then try again.

A crisp clear sunny February morning, wrapped up warmly, mulled wine or even a mug of tea to hand .... nothing beats it.

 

The biggest problem is the attitude of moored boats.

Lots of owners will glare at you convinced that the ice sheets you break & push aside will be ripping their blacking to shreds.

But these are usually the same guys that leave their mooring lines slack and then glare at you as you potter past them at very slow tickover as if you were doing 4 or 6 mph with a breaking wash.

[ChimneyChain]

Thanks Alan, all the old photos of ice breaking boats from the 1900 to the 1950s ish show just a " normal looking bow " where as on sickle and tycho this ram is fitted, was it an attempt to improve ice breaking or do you think the boats were designed as just push tugs and general maintenance work boats and just slipped into breaking ice as they didn't want to risk damaging long distance boats.

 

Darren

[trackman]

We were iced in in Harborough in November/December 2012 where the ice reached 4" thick or more.

I helped break a way for Hadar to get about 100m from behind our boat to the wharf to receive a lorry load of coal. This was during a marginally warmer couple of days when the ice thinned a bit.

It took Keith & Jo and four of us helping several hours to get the boat through. I broke a lot of ice using our prop wash with our boat tied up, the rest we did with poles until Keith had room to get a good run at it. Even this 20t odd boat only broke a couple of feet at a time before needing to back up again.

Steering was also hard, the ice tending to knock the boat off line where it had broken irregularly.

The boat didn't seem to ride up onto the ice in this situation, though I have seen boats do so where conditions allowed them to build up more speed. It can get hairy when this happens. If the ice won't break under the weight, the bow goes up and the stern down. I haven't heard of it happening, but it might be possible to put the stern under and ship water, I guess!

BTW, I found no evidence of damage to our blacking as a result of Hadar going by us like this, despite the big chunks of 4" thick ice that were sent flying at times.

There was no question of anything like normal boating in the conditions there, whatever boat, prop or engine you may have. Hadar has a National and hefty prop, our boat a Beta JD3 and 22" prop, but neither boat could have gone any distance sensibly. We were stuck, quite literally, for 8 weeks. We often saw people walking on the ice, stupidly, in my view, but!!

When we left we still had to break ice up to 1" thick for the first few days boating. I was glad our blacking was due to be redone, there was significant damage to it round the bows after this move.

[ditchcrawler]

 

There was no question of anything like normal boating in the conditions there, whatever boat, prop or engine you may have. Hadar has a National and hefty prop, our boat a Beta JD3 and 22" prop, but neither boat could have gone any distance sensibly. We were stuck, quite literally, for 8 weeks. We often saw people walking on the ice, stupidly, in my view, but!!

When we left we still had to break ice up to 1" thick for the first few days boating. I was glad our blacking was due to be redone, there was significant damage to it round the bows after this move.

I think you will find that Hadar only swings a 22" prop as well, but I think he has bought a better shaped one since then

[Keeping Up]

A little reminiscence:

 

Midwinter, many years ago, I was helping take a hire-boat from Rugby to Sawley for sale. Overnight it froze unbelieveably hard so the next day we were making very very slow progress, constantly having to back up and take another run at the ice. Just before we got to Fradley we had made ouselves an instant hot meal of a Pot Noodle each (that shows how desperate we were, as the boat had been strippped for sale and our only cooking was a small camping stove). We placed our Pot Noodles on the roof and walked round the corner to set the lock, which took us a while because of the ice. When we got back to the boat, the two pots had turned into Frozen Noodle Lollies, with the teaspoons acting as lolly sticks.

 

 

[Chris Pink]

Fair enough, they work reasonably well, even with it removed......

 

 

 

Off-topic; your back cabin looks very low to the steerer, what headroom have you got in the back cabin?

[alan_fincher]

Off-topic; your back cabin looks very low to the steerer, what headroom have you got in the back cabin?

Not a lot, but I don't actually know, if I'm honest.

 

I'll try and remember to measure.

 

Yes, it seems very low, but I understand "Tycho" which still has its original Yarwoods cabin was used as a template, so it is presumably true to original.

 

one thing is I think Sickle's rear step is set high, making the steerers look unusually tall with respect to the cabin, (I don't think Sarah, steering in the ice-breaking sequences, is actually particularly tall).

 

Certainly pictures of the rear of the two together look the same. I can't immediately find them side by side, but this gives an idea, (pictures Matt Parrot / Derek Reynolds].......

 

 

We rather like this one, the first time we have had both together.....