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Historic Boats for sale online


alan_fincher

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55 minutes ago, MtB said:

I don't see how any 50-year-old boat could be stopped from joining in and taking part in the rally, or any boat of any age actually. 

 

 

 

 

Boats often do, some voluntarily, others by mistake.  Don't get too precious about the blacking and there's no problem

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3 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Boats often do, some voluntarily, others by mistake.  Don't get too precious about the blacking and there's no problem

 

And more specifically, they need not to be in much of a hurry.

 

Or any of a hurry actually! 

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On 20/05/2022 at 13:04, Athy said:

You must decide for yourself - though the former is now possibly old enough to qualify as "historic",

 

It is, however, indisputable that hire boats are working boats. They travel carrying loads for commercial gain, although these loads are of people rather than of coal.

 

That doesn't mwan that I'd rather see a parade of ABC 57-footers than a parade of ex-GUCCC boats at a rally, of course.

Judging by the ABC boat in Droitwich lock and my own observations it seems many hire boats carry a considerable cargo of lager tbf 

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On 20/05/2022 at 13:04, Athy said:

You must decide for yourself - though the former is now possibly old enough to qualify as "historic",

 

It is, however, indisputable that hire boats are working boats. They travel carrying loads for commercial gain, although these loads are of people rather than of coal.

 

That doesn't mwan that I'd rather see a parade of ABC 57-footers than a parade of ex-GUCCC boats at a rally, of course.

 

Now, there lies yer' problem ....

"Historical is used as the general term for describing history, such as 'the historical record,' while historic is now usually reserved for important and famous moments in history, such as 'a historic battle." ~ Webster Dictionary

So my 1969 ex Stone Hire Boat is historical, yet in order to describe it as historic I'd need to align it to an event in that year.

To the best of my knowledge there is no proof it witnessed Concorde's test flight, nor did it attend Woodstock.

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2 hours ago, zenataomm said:

 

Now, there lies yer' problem ....

"Historical is used as the general term for describing history, such as 'the historical record,' while historic is now usually reserved for important and famous moments in history, such as 'a historic battle." ~ Webster Dictionary

So my 1969 ex Stone Hire Boat is historical, yet in order to describe it as historic I'd need to align it to an event in that year.

To the best of my knowledge there is no proof it witnessed Concorde's test flight, nor did it attend Woodstock.

I'm well aware of the difference, but as most people  use "historic boat" in the sense of "historical" I go along with the majority. I guess 'Cressy' would qualify as a historic boat in the strict sense, also perhaps the pair which did the last long-distance commercial run in 1970; any others?

 

Strange that the boats are dubbed "historic", yet their engines are "vintage".

 

 

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On 21/05/2022 at 08:35, Derek R. said:

Ex-hire boats - 'historic'?

Any motor vehicle over 40yrs old can be officially classified as 'historic', whether it carried commodities or people.

A hire boat could be called a working boat, as it earned income for its owner. Same can be said for a hire car - "It's an ex-Hertz!" But I doubt it would make it any more desirable to own or drive.

Lot of fuss over not very much.

 

Our ex-hire boat is registered on the National Register or Historic Ships and acknowledged as a historic boat by CRT

 

The hire boat was created by BW out of a 1930 working boat hull but because the current boat bears little resemblance to what it was originally (it had no engine or cabin originally) the acknowledgement by CRT is based on the fact that it was them who modified the original boat to have an engine and cabin in 1959 to be one of their hire fleet and as that part of it's history is now more than 50 years old the current boat with it's cabin and engine still qualify

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58 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

 

Our ex-hire boat is registered on the National Register or Historic Ships and acknowledged as a historic boat by CRT

 

The hire boat was created by BW out of a 1930 working boat hull but because the current boat bears little resemblance to what it was originally (it had no engine or cabin originally) the acknowledgement by CRT is based on the fact that it was them who modified the original boat to have an engine and cabin in 1959 to be one of their hire fleet and as that part of it's history is now more than 50 years old the current boat with it's cabin and engine still qualify

With the greatest of respect Jan, your boat doesn't now look anything like the hire cruiser BW created from the original horse boat/butty. It now has an extended long distance motor boat style cabin, a short 'trad' counter stern, and a long tug style bow deck, none of which it had in either it's carrying or hireboat days, and it sports a livery based on LMS locomotives, which is very different from the BW hireboat livery and to the workaday paint job the LMS boats would have had as carrying boats.

It's a lovely boat, incorporating part of a historic boat hull, but that's as far as it goes.

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

With the greatest of respect Jan, your boat doesn't now look anything like the hire cruiser BW created from the original horse boat/butty. It now has an extended long distance motor boat style cabin, a short 'trad' counter stern, and a long tug style bow deck, none of which it had in either it's carrying or hireboat days, and it sports a livery based on LMS locomotives, which is very different from the BW hireboat livery and to the workaday paint job the LMS boats would have had as carrying boats.

It's a lovely boat, incorporating part of a historic boat hull, but that's as far as it goes.

Well they would have struggled to get the current cabin on a 48 foot boat which is what she was cut down to. 

 

We are very aware the boat bears little resemblance to either the boat that Yarwood's designed in 1930 or the boat that BW converted it to in 1959 and we make a point of mentioning that to anyone who shows and interest in it.  The bow is the only thing that is very recognisable and as such that is kept white as it would have been in 1930

My point was that as far as CRT are concerned they accept it as being a historic boat and so do National Historic Ships 

Likewise Python bears little resemblance to what she was originally but she is still working and is currently licenced as a "Workboat" 

 

I think people can punt around trying to place their own definition of what is and what is not a historic boat but, like everything, the definition will differ according to who or what organisation is setting down the rules and what is more it will evolve with the passage of time. 

 

I remember in the late 1980's our classic car restoration business was asked to do some restoration work on a  Morris Marina. I could not get my head around the fact that such a car could ever be considered a classic but then I remembered my Dad being bemused that we might consider a Ford Anglia a classic! How many Marinas do you see now, except at classic car events.

 

Today's tatty old doer- upper that needs a shed load of money throwing at it to save it is tomorrows desirable boat. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

My point was that as far as CRT are concerned they accept it as being a historic boat and so do National Historic Ships 

Do CRT give you the historic boat licence discount?

 

6 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

Likewise Python bears little resemblance to what she was originally but she is still working and is currently licenced as a "Workboat" 

Python was shortened and recabinned/re-engined by BW for use as a workboat for canal maintenance, and still retains that form, and is still used as a workboat for canal maintenance. So it is much closer in form and use to its original than many other historics.

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1 hour ago, cheshire~rose said:

 

Our ex-hire boat is registered on the National Register or Historic Ships and acknowledged as a historic boat by CRT

 

The hire boat was created by BW out of a 1930 working boat hull but because the current boat bears little resemblance to what it was originally (it had no engine or cabin originally) the acknowledgement by CRT is based on the fact that it was them who modified the original boat to have an engine and cabin in 1959 to be one of their hire fleet and as that part of it's history is now more than 50 years old the current boat with it's cabin and engine still qualify

BW (as was) recognised YARMOUTH (1914) as qualifying for historic discount, though it was originally a horse boat and ten feet longer. I can't remember how much of the boat (any boat?) claiming historic discount had to BE part of the original, I thought it might have been about two thirds, but I might be wrong. Certainly all the hull sides and fore end were original, the cabin and engine were not.

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Here are what CRT have to say about what they deem to be acceptable 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/732-application-form-historic-boat-discount.pdf

 

I honestly did not think our boat qualified by applied on the basis of "nothing ventured - nothing gained" and sent a lot of additional material explaining why this boat is an important part of CRT's heritage.

 

The reply we got was that it was really interesting to read about a boat with such a fascinating history - I got the impression that many applications give scant detail and so what I wrote captured the attention of the individual/panel that makes the decision. 

 

I may be surmising that wrongly but if it helps someone else to get a discount when it is appropriate for them to do so then that's all good 

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5 hours ago, Athy said:

Strange that the boats are dubbed "historic", yet their engines are "vintage".

 

The word "vintage" is even more meaningless than confusing Historic with Historical.

It merely means belonging to a particular time/year/epoch.

Hence every single thing is vintage, and only makes sense so long as a clue is given to when it is aligned.

"Claret, vintage 1980" Or "Narrow Boat (not narrowboat) with Mitsubishi vintage engine, installed when boat was built 2006"

 

It's all meaningless twaddle anyway.

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1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

 

The word "vintage" is even more meaningless than confusing Historic with Historical.

It merely means belonging to a particular time/year/epoch.

Hence every single thing is vintage, and only makes sense so long as a clue is given to when it is aligned.

"Claret, vintage 1980" Or "Narrow Boat (not narrowboat) with Mitsubishi vintage engine, installed when boat was built 2006"

 

It's all meaningless twaddle anyway.

"Vintage" has a specific meaning in relation to cars:

"Cars built before 31 December 1904 are categorised as Veteran. An identical car built in January 1905 would not therefore be referred to as Veteran but, in common with other cars built between 1 January 1905 and 31 December 1918, would usually be referred to as Edwardian. Cars built between 1 January 1919 and 31 December 1930 are classified as Vintage. Certain makes of quality and sporting cars built in the years between 1930 and World War II are referred to as Post Vintage Thoroughbred."

https://nationalmotormuseum.org.uk/ufaqs/when-is-a-car-called-veteran-and-when-is-it-vintage/

 

So is my 1936 Large Woolwich a Post Vintage Thoroughbred?

Edited by David Mack
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1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

Or "Narrow Boat (not narrowboat)

 

Or "narrow boat" even. I certainly used both terms.

 

I tend to use "narrow boat" when writing about an old and/or perhaps converted historic boat initially built with rivets, and "narrowboat" when referring to a modern steel welded-fabricated boat purpose built as a leisure vessel or as a liveaboard home.

 

I don't use either term to describe any of the disastrous proliferation of fatties. 

 

 

 

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On 22/05/2022 at 19:44, cheshire~rose said:

Here are what CRT have to say about what they deem to be acceptable 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/732-application-form-historic-boat-discount.pdf

 

I honestly did not think our boat qualified by applied on the basis of "nothing ventured - nothing gained" and sent a lot of additional material explaining why this boat is an important part of CRT's heritage.

 

The reply we got was that it was really interesting to read about a boat with such a fascinating history - I got the impression that many applications give scant detail and so what I wrote captured the attention of the individual/panel that makes the decision. 

 

I may be surmising that wrongly but if it helps someone else to get a discount when it is appropriate for them to do so then that's all good 

 

That's interesting because although I used to mischievously suggest my old but not ex-working boat was a historic narrow boat I'd kind of grown out of that notion. I thought that generally it was considered that historic narrow boats came from the era when boats were built for commercial carrying i.e. up to 1960.

 

However by the criteria in that form mine might qualify for a discount (but not an invite to the Braunston show). That said I still get the feeling the scheme is aimed at ex-working boats. Perhaps I'll test that theory.

 

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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It also says that a 1930s narrowboat with a short cabin extension would qualify, but one with a full length conversion would not, and on that basis I have never applied for the discount for Belfast, but from discussion above I am left wondering whether I should try.

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23 minutes ago, David Mack said:

It also says that a 1930s narrowboat with a short cabin extension would qualify, but one with a full length conversion would not, and on that basis I have never applied for the discount for Belfast, but from discussion above I am left wondering whether I should try.

When was the cabin on Belfast extended? That appeared to be a pertinent factor with Oates, which of course originally had no cabin at all, but was converted in the 1970s. The King has a full length cabin and is registered. The original wooden cabin on Oates was removed and replaced in the late 1990s, so the recent steel cabin was acceptable because it was not a replacement of a historic wooden cabin. One thing which is not obvious until you start the process is that your boat needs to be on the National Register of Historic Ships. This is not difficult either. Another factor appears to be a good record of the history of the boat - the previous owner had applied for Oates but was sketchy on the history so when CRT asked for more details he gave up. I was able to provide a full file, detailing everything that had happened to it from its first appearance on the 1858 boat list through to its private sale, complete with copies of correspondence between BWB and the then owner. I would say it's worth pulling together the details, registering on NRHV and then putting in a good quality application.

 

Alec

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is the first one the Lion that used to be moored near Braunston turn on the Oxford section going towards Hillmorton? This would have been late 90s. I remember it being a bit of an odd looking boat with a josher bow but there was something strange about the stern. 

Used to be painted BW blue. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by magnetman
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1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Is the first one the Lion that used to be moored near Braunston turn on the Oxford section going towards Hillmorton? This would have been late 90s. I remember it being a bit of an odd looking boat with a josher bow but there was something strange about the stern. 

Used to be painted BW blue. 

 

 

 

 

 

If it is the same boat, Lion was owned by John Saxon when it was moored at Braunston Turn, He told me that it  had been shortened at some time in it's life and then extended back to full length, which may explain it's "Odd" look.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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43 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

If it is the same boat, Lion was owned by John Saxon when it was moored at Braunston Turn, He told me that it  had been shortened at some time in it's life and then extended back to full length, which may explain it's "Odd" look.

Yes, 'The North' is the same boat as John Saxon's 'Lion', which I remember in the Coventry area in the 70's and '80's. And yes, it was blue when John owned it, but I wouldn't describe it as BW blue, it was a slightly darker blue that I remember.

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