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alan_fincher

Historic Boats for sale online

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1 hour ago, magnetman said:

 

I bet one would find other narrow boat steerers giving way at bridge holes fairly readily though which could be quite enjoyable. 

Wouldn't matter if they didn't!!

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1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

The difference in costs in licencing a 40 foot boat versus a 45 foot one would be minimal,

It's 2 bands, so £757.80 vs £829.63 at the prepay discount rate - a difference of £71.83.

 

I agree - it's irrelevant on the scale of running a boat.  Change from £1.50 a week.

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1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I quite like the look of it as it is but apart from anything else it seems a bit impractical and possibly slightly dodgy in locks. 

 

To be fair looking at it there is no obvious danger but it seems to be an extra worry which would perhaps be good to avoid. 

 

I bet one would find other narrow boat steerers giving way at bridge holes fairly readily though which could be quite enjoyable. 

I can not see why the ram on TYCHO would present any more of a problem in a lock than the fore end any other narrow boat, especially when compared to those that deploy the most dangerous of attachments - a stem fender.

 

The best boats to encourage approaching boaters to concede to a bridge hole are empty Grand Unions, especially those of the larger variety - but there is not that much between large and small :captain:

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2 hours ago, magnetman said:

I bet one would find other narrow boat steerers giving way at bridge holes fairly readily though which could be quite enjoyable. 

 

15 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

Wouldn't matter if they didn't!!

 

Here is a certain "Mr Boilerman" chancing his luck with Tycho's twin Sickle, (which admittedly lacks the ram).  It didn't go particularly well! 😀

IMG_9639.JPG

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7 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

especially when compared to those that deploy the most dangerous of attachments - a stem fender.

Are they not a legal requirement?

Just now, alan_fincher said:

 

 

Here is a certain "Mr Boilerman" chancing his luck with Tycho's twin Sickle, (which admittedly lacks the ram).  It didn't go particularly well! 😀

IMG_9639.JPG

 I find that standing nearer the tiller helps with steering ...

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

It's 2 bands, so £757.80 vs £829.63 at the prepay discount rate - a difference of £71.83.

 

I agree - it's irrelevant on the scale of running a boat.  Change from £1.50 a week.

Licence and mooring charges are fairly insignificant when compared to ongoing maintenance costs of these boats, especially as less sympathetic owners have a habit of not doing things properly which a later owner has the pleasure and cost of sorting out (this includes bodges carried out by the big carrying concerns when in trade) :captain:

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Are they not a legal requirement?

The bye-laws require you to have fenders that can be deployed - thy don't actually have to be deployed at all times.

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

It's 2 bands, so £757.80 vs £829.63 at the prepay discount rate - a difference of £71.83.

 

I agree - it's irrelevant on the scale of running a boat.  Change from £1.50 a week.

 

And you would also get the historic boat discount on top of those rates, so another 10% less.

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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Are they not a legal requirement?

Fenders are a requirement of the Boat Safety Certificate, but whether that makes them a legal requirement I do not know.

 

What is clear from other threads on this Forum is that stem fenders get caught going uphill and downhill in locks and cause hang ups and sinkings, which suggests to me that they are dangerous. Due to the height of the fore end stem fenders on empty working boats (even some converted boats) are liable to get caught under balance beams and handrails when going uphill, which is why it is not uncommon to see these boats having a stem fender but laying on the fore deck - and yes I do know all about having a split link or string link to prevent these incidents, but I have lifted a lock gate off its pintall and it happens remarkably quickly and easily :captain:

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3 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

Fenders are a requirement of the Boat Safety Certificate, but whether that makes them a legal requirement I do not know.

 

Are you sure about that

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13 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

The bye-laws require you to have fenders that can be deployed - thy don't actually have to be deployed at all times.

Fair enough - I know they need to be removed in some locks.

 

15 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

And you would also get the historic boat discount on top of those rates, so another 10% less.

Aye, but 10% of irrelevant is less than irrelevant! 

 

4 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

Fenders are a requirement of the Boat Safety Certificate, but whether that makes them a legal requirement I do not know.

I thought it was one of the byelaws, but I can't remember the details.

 

Hopefully someone else can remember or find it.

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6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Are you sure about that

Nope, I have never read the requirements of the Boat Safety Certificate. The last time I was present with an inspector was about 1981 (Multi-User Hire and Reward licence) and he checked the fenders.

 

Perhaps as somebody else has said it is in the Bye-Laws, which I also have never read as I have more interesting things to do :captain:

Edited by pete harrison

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4 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

. Due to the height of the fore end stem fenders on empty working boats (even some converted boats) are liable to get caught under balance beams and handrails when going uphill, which is why it is not uncommon to see these boats having a stem fender but laying on the fore deck - and yes I do know all about having a split link or string link to prevent these incidents, but I have lifted a lock gate off its pintall and it happens remarkably quickly and easily :captain:

Top gates are effectively very light when the lock is full and they are quite buoyant 

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8 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

Fenders are a requirement of the Boat Safety Certificate....

 

I don't believe they are.

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6 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

I don't believe they are.

Two people have told me that now. Oh dear I am wrong again, but as you say they are in the Bye-Laws so it makes little difference - but a stem fender is still dangerous in my opinion :captain: 

Edited by pete harrison

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Top gates are effectively very light when the lock is full and they are quite buoyant 

Unless they are steel ones!

 

But it is still probably more likely to lift a steel one off, as there are often far more opportunities to do so.  Quite a few Grand Union locks with steel gates have fairly minimal rubbing boards that need the boat to be parallel to the side of the lock, and against it to guarantee a stem actually ends up on the rubbing board.  If the boat goes diagonal in the lock, it can end up in one of the unguarded recesses, and hence lift the gate as it comes up across one of the cross members.  Some of the locks at Braunston (as an example) have been modified with extra protection, and they would only bother do that if incidents were known to have occurred.

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5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Top gates are effectively very light when the lock is full and they are quite buoyant 

Top gates on the Buckby flight are lifted out of their quoins several times a year by folks not paying attention. ..I do not know of a single boat sunk in the flight in the last 10 years going up having snagged a front fender.

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7 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

Two people have told me that now. Oh dear I am wrong again, but as you say they are in the Bye-Laws so it makes little difference - but a stem fender is still dangerous in my opinion :captain: 

I certainly agree about the fender at the front.

On the full length boat we try to be meticulous that it is not deployed whilst going through any lock.

Unfortunately we have proved that a Northwich stem can still get hung up very badly in certain circumstances, even with no fender involved, but generally no fender is still the way to go on a full length boat.

Edited by alan_fincher
  • Greenie 1

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I have found the Byelaws online and will be interested to see what they say, when I have nothing better to do as it is a 33 page PDF document :captain:

Edited by pete harrison

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9 hours ago, pete harrison said:

Fenders are a requirement of the Boat Safety Certificate, but whether that makes them a legal requirement I do not know.

 

What is clear from other threads on this Forum is that stem fenders get caught going uphill and downhill in locks and cause hang ups and sinkings, which suggests to me that they are dangerous. Due to the height of the fore end stem fenders on empty working boats (even some converted boats) are liable to get caught under balance beams and handrails when going uphill, which is why it is not uncommon to see these boats having a stem fender but laying on the fore deck - and yes I do know all about having a split link or string link to prevent these incidents, but I have lifted a lock gate off its pintall and it happens remarkably quickly and easily :captain:

I agree with the bow fenders mine is often getting pulled off, it's ok if there is a run from the gate to the balance beam but, in normally gets pulled where these meet and no metal run, I have a few times got it stuck under a hand rail but this is normally when there a little lower or slightly bend inwards.

 

But single handed and wooden the fenders do take up some of the bumps, the back ones have never got hung up and do stop my rudder from getting hit, but I do also remove the tiller bar as I have seen people get hit by this or wedged when a boat has moved back and rudder hits the gate (last owners must have hit something with the old bar as it was badly bent and had tried to be straightended out)

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14 hours ago, pete harrison said:

I have found the Byelaws online and will be interested to see what they say, when I have nothing better to do as it is a 33 page PDF document :captain:

 

15 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

The bye-laws require you to have fenders that can be deployed - thy don't actually have to be deployed at all times.

Having had a quick look through the Byelaws I have found the following:

 

Vessels to have fenders ready for use 


6. Every vessel navigated on any canal shall have ready for immediate use proper fenders of suitable material and in good condition and the master of such vessel shall use such fenders whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking against any other vessel or against any wall, lockgate, bridge or other thing.

 

These Byelaws make for much more interesting reading than I was expecting, though I suspect they are rarely enforced :captain:

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If you dont like the ram dont buy it, if they took towy as part ex I probably would buy it due to the ram, the others are just tugs with the tug history removed effectively making them just a shortened full length boat, with the ram and the ice bar its keeping the point as to why it was done and the history as to why. 

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If I had the cash, I'd buy it back. Restore the back cabin, change the paint scheme keeping the ram and bar - the two things that set TYCHO apart from ever other vessel.

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I think removing Tycho's ice ram would be as much vandalism as straightening the rounded chines on Harrison Bros. "Spitfire" because your wife didn't like the way it rolled.

If you can't respect history don't own it.

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2 hours ago, zenataomm said:

I think removing Tycho's ice ram would be as much vandalism as straightening the rounded chines on Harrison Bros. "Spitfire" because your wife didn't like the way it rolled.

If you can't respect history don't own it.

 

Which is precisely the reason Tycho hasn't sold. 

 

I'd love to buy Tycho but am not prepared to be the one to remove the ice ram. Removing it will prolly add £5-10k to the value of the boat, but it will destroy the history as you say. 

 

 

 

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