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alan_fincher

Historic Boats for sale online

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22 minutes ago, matty40s said:

You would think that someone who lives in a marina and services/sells boats for a living would be able to spell Elsan and immersion by now...

I can't read it, it's all mixed together and jumbled up.

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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

First class example of an utterly hopeless advert. A boat in kit form for £50k and cant even be arsed to include any photos or say the name of the boat!! 

 

 

Just what I was thinking, everyone on the planet has a camera in their pocket.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

First class example of an utterly hopeless advert. A boat in kit form for £50k and cant even be arsed to include any photos or say the name of the boat!! 

 

Not easy to photograph a boat when it isn't all in the same place

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2 hours ago, chris_r said:

 

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

First class example of an utterly hopeless advert. A boat in kit form for £50k and cant even be arsed to include any photos or say the name of the boat!!

 

1 hour ago, NB Esk said:

Just what I was thinking, everyone on the planet has a camera in their pocket.


Well I assume the first post is by the seller, and the boat in question s the Theophilus, (a shortened Middle Northwich former ice boat like Sickle).
h
I'm somewhat surprised it is for sale.

As far as I could see passing Glascote yesterday, what I thought was earmarked as the engine room and cabin shell for it was a kit of parts, but perhaps I've been given duff information?

Edited by alan_fincher

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An optimistic price I'd agree, even more so given that the Theophilus' hull has been somewhat 'sanitised' and no longer bears any resemblance to a Middle boat, has an incomplete (albeit Tim Leech built) ten year old (at least) cabin that was cut off another Grand Union motor and a RN that hasn't run for several years.

Yes, "kit form" just about covers it 😁😁

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This may (or may not!) be part of the kit....

 

 

P1020663.JPG

  • Greenie 1

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1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 


Well I assume the first post is by the seller, and the boat in question s the Theophilus, (a shortened Middle Northwich former ice boat like Sickle).
h
I'm somewhat surprised it is for sale.

As far as I could see passing Glascote yesterday, what I thought was earmarked as the engine room and cabin shell for it was a kit of parts, but perhaps I've been given duff information?

I’m sure you’re correct as it appears the adverts for what we assume to be Baldock and Theophilus have been placed by the same seller.

 

JP

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1 hour ago, James Owen said:

An optimistic price I'd agree, even more so given that the Theophilus' hull has been somewhat 'sanitised' and no longer bears any resemblance to a Middle boat, has an incomplete (albeit Tim Leech built) ten year old (at least) cabin that was cut off another Grand Union motor and a RN that hasn't run for several years.

Yes, "kit form" just about covers it 😁😁

I think your train of thought is somewhat purist, or academic at least. It could easily be argued that THEOPHILUS lost 'any resemblance to a Middle boat' on its conversion to an ice breaking tug in 1942. Like all other existing 'historic' boats THEOPHILUS has since been subject to alteration suitable to its owners requirements, and this has included removal of the original cabin / engine room, at least two engine changes (with another in the pipeline), and multiple owners who have seen it used as an ice breaking tug / hire cruiser / pleasure cruiser / house boat / restoration project - with each owner making their 'mark' in its development to what it is today. Absolute and detailed historical restoration is a fairly recent addition to the 'historic' narrow boat world and I can count on my fingers those boatyards that are successful in this, but then all but the most dedicated owners cringe at the cost !!!! 

 

Restoration project is the part of THEOPHILUS's history that you are criticising, but what does this mean as most 'historic' boats have been subject to this at least once. Any restoration is going to be governed by a multitude of points, such as costs / time / who is doing the work (owner or boatyard) / skill availability / boatyard availability / availability of missing parts / interpretation e.t.c.. There are numerous 'historic' boats that have been restored in the past in a way that is easily criticised - but were of their time and certainly not how the specialist boatyards would do it now. Equally there are specialist boatyards now carrying out restorations that look O.K. but are not historically correct, but in the main the owners seem happy with them (there are exceptions). 

 

To be honest as good as Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. boats were when built, and they were far superior to anything else of the period, I would not want mine to replicate every aspect - and it will not do as I do not want to erase 82 years of history - some good and some not so good.

 

As to the value of any boat the seller will always start off speculatively, but ultimately the market will decide :captain:

 

 

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£50k for Theophilus would seem a fair if somewhat ambitious price once the seller has assembled it back into a finished boat. 

 

£50k for the rusty pile of bits seems laughable. I’m not surprised there are no photos on the ad. 

 

Assuming it IS Theophilus in the first place. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Assuming it IS Theophilus in the first place.

 

As it is the same seller for both this one and Baldock, I think that is beyond doubt.

As he just posted the ad, he can always tell us if it isn't!

 

I'm surprised to see Chris offering both for potential sale - it is not long ago he was still telling me of his great plans for both.

The kit of parts for Baldock may even include a Kabola drip fed boiler ex Flamingo - I'm not sure!

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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

The kit of parts for Baldock may even include a Kabola drip fed boiler ex Flamingo - I'm not sure!

Is Baldock offered as a 'kit'?

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26 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Is Baldock offered as a 'kit'?

Words from the Apollo Duck advert for BALDOCK :captain:

 

"This is an original 1936 boat with a full length conversion. Originally built at Harland and Wolff yard in Woolwich she has a working history and equally a history as a comfortable residential craft.

Presently based in the Midlands she has been stripped out internally to the gunwales in readiness for turning into an exceptional living space.

The most recent survey indicates there is some tidying up required to an overplated rear swim but overall the boat is in sound condition

There is a wealth of new and unused equipment which can be re-used ... essentially there is everything needed to refit the boat

Genuine reason for sale (old age !!!) "

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47 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

I think your train of thought is somewhat purist, or academic at least. It could easily be argued that THEOPHILUS lost 'any resemblance to a Middle boat' on its conversion to an ice breaking tug in 1942. Like all other existing 'historic' boats THEOPHILUS has since been subject to alteration suitable to its owners requirements, and this has included removal of the original cabin / engine room, at least two engine changes (with another in the pipeline), and multiple owners who have seen it used as an ice breaking tug / hire cruiser / pleasure cruiser / house boat / restoration project - with each owner making their 'mark' in its development to what it is today. Absolute and detailed historical restoration is a fairly recent addition to the 'historic' narrow boat world and I can count on my fingers those boatyards that are successful in this, but then all but the most dedicated owners cringe at the cost !!!! 

 

Restoration project is the part of THEOPHILUS's history that you are criticising, but what does this mean as most 'historic' boats have been subject to this at least once. Any restoration is going to be governed by a multitude of points, such as costs / time / who is doing the work (owner or boatyard) / skill availability / boatyard availability / availability of missing parts / interpretation e.t.c.. There are numerous 'historic' boats that have been restored in the past in a way that is easily criticised - but were of their time and certainly not how the specialist boatyards would do it now. Equally there are specialist boatyards now carrying out restorations that look O.K. but are not historically correct, but in the main the owners seem happy with them (there are exceptions). 

 

To be honest as good as Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. boats were when built, and they were far superior to anything else of the period, I would not want mine to replicate every aspect - and it will not do as I do not want to erase 82 years of history - some good and some not so good.

 

As to the value of any boat the seller will always start off speculatively, but ultimately the market will decide :captain:

 

 

I agree Pete. Each owner be they commercial or private individuals has, and shall continue to do so, left their mark on these boats whilst under their respective tenures and I believe that is no bad thing. If every boat were 'as built' that would make for some tedious sights. 

I concede that budget restraints will ultimately decide on what degree of 'restoration' any boat is likely to undergo but that shouldn't, in this day and age and with the original present for use as a reference, affect the overall shape of the boat.

As one boat builder put it "it's as flat as a witches t*t and all welded".

Does that not make it sanitised? 

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50 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Is Baldock offered as a 'kit'?

Depends how you interpret.....
 

Quote

There is a wealth of new and unused equipment which can be re-used ... essentially there is everything needed to refit the boat

 

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2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I’m sure you’re correct as it appears the adverts for what we assume to be Baldock and Theophilus have been placed by the same seller.

 

JP

 

Not sure how you know that. I can't see a seller ID anywhere on the Theophilus ad. Who is it then?

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

I'm surprised to see Chris offering both for potential sale - it is not long ago he was still telling me of his great plans for both.

 

Chris? I thought he sold Baldock six or seven years ago.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Chris? I thought he sold Baldock six or seven years ago.

 

 

You'll be amazed, I know - there is more than one person called Chris!

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