Historic Boats for sale online

[magnetman]

I remember this with Callisto and Ara years ago. Owner would not sell seperately. Boats eventually got divorced .

 

Its a commonly held view that original pairs "should" stay together but I never quite understood why - it seems to be there might be some attitude going on somewhere. They are a nice pair but I would not want a butty whereas Mountbatten on its own - what a nice boat !

 

That Romford is a Braithwaite butty apparently. Not sure how good the stern is but if its as nice as Yarmouth's for instance it might make an interesting 'deconversion'

[Athy]

Perhaps, quite apart from the historic or sentimental aspect of the pair staying together, the seller realises that while he may sell the motor easily, he hasn't a cat in hell's chance of shifting the butty at anything like a realistic price because very few people are looking for just a butty.

[gazza]

Perhaps, quite apart from the historic or sentimental aspect of the pair staying together, the seller realises that while he may sell the motor easily, he hasn't a cat in hell's chance of shifting the butty at anything like a realistic price because very few people are looking for just a butty.

Along with an angle grinder, a welding set and steel stock a butty is two for the price of one.....

Edited September 27, 2016 by gazza

[pete harrison]

Perhaps, quite apart from the historic or sentimental aspect of the pair staying together, the seller realises that while he may sell the motor easily, he hasn't a cat in hell's chance of shifting the butty at anything like a realistic price because very few people are looking for just a butty.

This was exactly the case the seller made to me, even though he said he knew of one or two people who may be prepared to purchase the butty on its own. This is of course the sellers choice, but if he had a more flexible outlook he could have around two thirds of the original asking price sat in his bank account now - and as for me I will just wait for the next interesting 'historic' boat to come on the market. I wish them well with the sale as a pair, but I am also mindful that they were for sale for 4 years prior to the current owner/ seller purchasing them.

 

For the record I once owned BADSEY and BARNES, a large Woolwich pair that were also an original intended G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. pairing. Although it was commendable that a previous owner had got this pair back together when the time came to sell I had no sentiment about splitting them up if a purchaser came along. As it happened they did both sell as a pair, and remained as such for another six years and two owners

[pete harrison]

I remember this with Callisto and Ara years ago. Owner would not sell seperately. Boats eventually got divorced .

And it is my understanding that CALLISTO and ARA got 'divorced' by the person who would not initially sell them separately, although they were both sold at the same time to the two different owners

[Jrtm]

 

Why (in your opinion) should they stay together ?

Im my op because i think there a nice matched pair. 2 sim type boats being together looks better together in my opp. The same as a lms loco looks better with say 5 lms coaches than it would mk2 br coaches

[Athy]

Good point, Billy. A matched pair is aesthetically pleasing (even if they aren't the most drop-dead gorgeous of working boats).

[pete harrison]

Im my op because i think there a nice matched pair. 2 sim type boats being together looks better together in my opp.

 

Good point, Billy. A matched pair is aesthetically pleasing (even if they aren't the most drop-dead gorgeous of working boats).

So what you are saying is just because they look nice (in the eyes of the beholder) then they should be kept together.

 

edit = in my opinion they are worth more money being sold separately, even though I accept MOUNTBATTEN might sell first (well it almost certainly would have been sold to me by now) - but like I said earlier this is the choice of the seller.

 

My view on the aesthetic appeal of these boats is the opposite. I think these Yarwood 'Admirals' look very unattractive from every angle (unlike the Pimblott 'Admirals' - all in the eyes of the beholder !), and pairing them with another design of hull helps to soften them a little - such as when Ivor Batchelor had MOUNTBATTEN paired with CEDAR. These Yarwood 'Admirals' boats are however important examples of narrow boat development, and this is where the appeal lies for me.

 

From a historical point of view none of the four Yarwood 'Admirals' (JELLICOE, KEPPEL, LINDSAY, MOUNTBATTEN) were paired together until well into 1962, and I have seen no evidence that these four boats were ever intended to work in pairs

Edited September 27, 2016 by pete harrison

[Athy]

 

So what you are saying is just because they look nice (in the eyes of the beholder) then they should be kept together.

 

 

No, not JUST because, though of course it helps.

A Great Western locomotive looks better coupled to a G.W.R. tender, not an L.S.W.R. one for example.

[pete harrison]

No, not JUST because, though of course it helps.

A Great Western locomotive looks better coupled to a G.W.R. tender, not an L.S.W.R. one for example.

Sorry, I do not know what the underlined means as I know nothing about railways and rolling stock.

 

I do wonder what current enthusiasts would have made of 'British Waterways' pairings that consisted of Josher motors and large Rick buttys, or large Woolwich / Northwich motors with Josher buttys. As a boy I always wanted a large Woolwich motor paired with a small Woolwich butty, both of which look quite different but in my eye are well proportioned as a pair. This pairing still carries a lot of appeal to me now, but fortunately we all like different things

[Athy]

Sorry, I do not know what the underlined means as I know nothing about railways and rolling stock.

 

 

Great Western tenders were built for use with Great Western engines. London & South Western (L.S.W.R.) ones - yes, you've guessed - were not.

[Jrtm]

 

So what you are saying is just because they look nice (in the eyes of the beholder) then they should be kept together.

 

edit = in my opinion they are worth more money being sold separately, even though I accept MOUNTBATTEN might sell first (well it almost certainly would have been sold to me by now) - but like I said earlier this is the choice of the seller.

 

My view on the aesthetic appeal of these boats is the opposite. I think these Yarwood 'Admirals' look very unattractive from every angle (unlike the Pimblott 'Admirals' - all in the eyes of the beholder !), and pairing them with another design of hull helps to soften them a little - such as when Ivor Batchelor had MOUNTBATTEN paired with CEDAR. These Yarwood 'Admirals' boats are however important examples of narrow boat development, and this is where the appeal lies for me.

 

From a historical point of view none of the four Yarwood 'Admirals' (JELLICOE, KEPPEL, LINDSAY, MOUNTBATTEN) were paired together until well into 1962, and I have seen no evidence that these four boats were ever intended to work in pairs

You asked me in my opinion???

 

Is this not the answer you got???

 

You didnt not ask me from a cost point of view why they should be sold together.

 

The reason i gave was my opinion that they should be sold as a pair as its nice to see a matched pair together. Yes there is the history side but thats not my main reason.

 

Hence my point about locomotives.

 

You cant complain when you ask me a question of my point of view and i answer it.

 

We may not agree but you didnt ask me to.

Edited September 27, 2016 by billybobbooth

[Jrtm]

I would rather see a pair of joshers or a pair of whatever it may be that are close looking than 2 that look compleatly diffrent.

 

I would rather see 2 yarwoods together than a yarwoods and a ricky

 

But something like a large ricky and small ricky or large and small yarwoods look nicer to me than a josher and yarwoods

 

(And dont go quoting there is no such thing as a large and small ricky ect im just giving examples im sure you can get the jist of what i mean by my above examples)

 

All of this is in my opinion dosnt mean selling like this makes money either quicker or better than splitting them up.

 

We all have our own views of what looks nice and what dosnt and thats fine. But please dont say i right or wrong for giving you my reason

Edited September 27, 2016 by billybobbooth

[pete harrison]

You asked me in my opinion???

 

Is this not the answer you got???

 

You didnt not ask me from a cost point of view why they should be sold together.

 

The reason i gave was my opinion that they should be sold as a pair as its nice to see a matched pair together. Yes there is the history side but thats not my main reason.

 

You cant complain when you ask me a question of my point of view and i answer it.

 

We may not agree but you didnt ask me to.

 

All of this is in my opinion dosnt mean selling like this makes money either quicker or better than splitting them up.

 

We all have our own views of what looks nice and what dosnt and thats fine. But please dont say i right or wrong for giving you my reason

I have not complained about yours, or anybody else's opinions and reasons - and you are entitled and welcome to make them. All I added was a confirmation of your opinion.

 

I have however gone on to express some of my opinions, some based upon aesthetics, some based on financial options and some based upon historical fact. Whether my opinions align with anybody else's opinions matters very little in the big scheme of things - except I was a potential purchaser of MOUNTBATTEN, and again I wish the sellers of MOUNTBATTEN and JELLICOE all the best with their sale

Edited September 27, 2016 by pete harrison

[MtB]

Perhaps, quite apart from the historic or sentimental aspect of the pair staying together, the seller realises that while he may sell the motor easily, he hasn't a cat in hell's chance of shifting the butty at anything like a realistic price because very few people are looking for just a butty.

 

 

I'd have thought the opposite was true. If the seller put a genuinely realistic price tag on the butty it would sell perfectly easily. £5k perhaps?

 

Then £25k for the motor should see that sold easily enough too.

 

What's really happening is the seller is being sentimental insisting they are sold as a pair, both to the same buyer. But in doing so he is reducing his chances of selling at all.

[magnetman]

 

I have not complained about yours, or anybody else's opinions and reasons - and you are entitled and welcome to make them. All I added was a confirmation of your opinion.

 

I have however gone on to express some of my opinions, some based upon aesthetics, some based on financial options and some based upon historical fact. Whether my opinions align with anybody else's opinions matters very little in the big scheme of things - except I was a potential purchaser of MOUNTBATTEN, and again I wish the sellers of MOUNTBATTEN and JELLICOE all the best with their sale

I feel I may owe an explanation to billybobbooth.

 

It was one of my posts which suggested that there may be some 'attitude' around selling boats as pairs and an unwillingness to split them.

 

This may be what upset him. Not sure.

 

Anyway I do think that if someone wants/needs to sell a pair of boats they should look at all options regarding the separation of the boats.

 

It comes down to the difference between wanting to sell and needing to sell.

 

I still think there is a bit of attitude going on in this whole subject but that is also just opinion.

 

Edit to remove error

For some reason it reminds me of people calling themselves "custodian" of a boat when they actually could use less letters by saying "owner".

Edited September 27, 2016 by magnetman

[rivergate]

Off topic but the big Woolwich motor with small Woolwich butty 'pair' carries a lot of appeal to me also

 

 

I saw a reference to the wooden Walton NB being for sale on ebay on a different thread recently...every search I try in ebay doesn't throw it up - can anyone help with a direct link please..? Cheers

Edited September 27, 2016 by rivergate

[Chertsey]

I'd have thought (pace Athy, I can't find the original post to quote) there was more chance of selling a butty separately. People have a motor for a while and then go really mad and decide that a butty might be a good addition to it. As long as it stays a butty, there's always the possibility of reuniting it with a suitable motor (not necessarily the same one) at some point.

 

Off topic further (but related to the post directly above), someone told me at the weekend that Argo has been cut in half - is that true? Now if I had bought Bristol, I'd have been responsible for splitting them up...

Edited September 27, 2016 by Chertsey

[magnetman]

I'd have thought (pace Athy, I can't find the original post to quote) there was more chance of selling a butty separately. People have a motor for a while and then go really mad and decide that a butty might be a good addition to it. As long as it stays a butty, there's always the possibility of reuniting it with a suitable motor (not necessarily the same one) at some point.

 

Off topic further (but related to the post directly above), someone told me at the weekend that Argo has been cut in half - is that true? Now if I had bought Bristol, I'd have been responsible for splitting them up...

Afaik argo was cut at the yard just below Braunston bottom lock opposite UCC

 

Roger Farringdon?

[MtB]

Afaik argo was cut at the yard just below Braunston bottom lock opposite UCC

 

Roger Farringdon?

 

 

Close, Roger Farrington, I believe...

[magnetman]

Off topic but the big Woolwich motor with small Woolwich butty 'pair' carries a lot of appeal to me also

 

 

I saw a reference to the wooden Walton NB being for sale on ebay on a different thread recently...every search I try in ebay doesn't throw it up - can anyone help with a direct link please..?

Cheers

It was further up this thread

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/222254952262?_mwBanner=1

 

They used the word "oak" rather than "wooden" so a bit awkward for searching.

[rivergate]

Thank you - didn't help that I was searching for a wooden motor called Walton! lol

[FadeToScarlet]

 

 

I'd have thought the opposite was true. If the seller put a genuinely realistic price tag on the butty it would sell perfectly easily. £5k perhaps?

 

Nononononono, he can't do that, I'd be far far far too tempted.....

[David Schweizer]

Afaik argo was cut at the yard just below Braunston bottom lock opposite UCC

 

Roger Farringdon?

 

If it is the boat I am thinking of, Argo was not "cut in half" as such. The butty back end was cut off and a new motor back end welded on, and brilliant job done in my opinion. I also believe that the original back end end has subsequenty been used to form the bow of a new boat.

[David Schweizer]

I'd have thought (pace Athy, I can't find the original post to quote) there was more chance of selling a butty separately. People have a motor for a while and then go really mad and decide that a butty might be a good addition to it. As long as it stays a butty, there's always the possibility of reuniting it with a suitable motor (not necessarily the same one) at some point.

 

Off topic further (but related to the post directly above), someone told me at the weekend that Argo has been cut in half - is that true? Now if I had bought Bristol, I'd have been responsible for splitting them up...

 

That's a bit over sentimental. Bristol did not spend very long paired with Argo. I remember Bristol well when she was a converted ex Black Prince hire boat owned by Geoffrey Rogerson, and and moored for years on the K&A between Bradford on Avon and Bath.