Historic Boats for sale online

[zenataomm]

54 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

When I asked at Brinklow what they thought "Dlamingo" might weigh, I think 25 tons was the answer given.

Wowsers …… you've bought yet another boat?

[alan_fincher]

8 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Wowsers …… you've bought yet another boat?

No, but I could do well to buy a new keyboard where I can actually read the letters on the keys!

[Derek R.]

2 hours ago, Ray T said:

Top dead centre, when the piston is at maximum upward travel.

 

Fuel is usually injected at a few degrees before TDC so it gets compressed before ignition.

Top Dead Centre as Ray says, is when the piston is at the top of its travel within the cyinder. As to zero timing, it's not an expression I have heard before, but will presume it means the fuel is injected at TDC rather than a few degrees before. Generally, the reason why fuel is njected a few degrees before, is to allow the flame spread from the injector nozzle, or the spark plug in a petrol engine, to reach the top of the piston at the TOP of its travel. The momentum of the flywheel then carries the crankshaft with the piston attached so that the maximum expansion of burning gas pushes the piston downwards on the power stroke. Slow revving engines such as the JP2 might benefit from zero timing due to their slow movement compared to a petrol engine or higher speed diesel, and thereby possibly reduce bottom end bearing life. But I'm no Lister engineer, and there may be a more technical reason for timing the engine so.

 

PS Nice looking boat. Bit posh for me though.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Derek R.
Added text

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

As to zero timing, it's not an expression I have heard before, but will presume it means the fuel is injected at TDC rather than a few degrees before.

 

I've just had a brief goggle for "zero timing" in relation the diesels and there are no meaningful results for that term, so the advertiser has perhaps either heard it wrong or been bamboozled with gobbledegook by the uncle. 

[MtB]

 

And regarding the spelling, I notice the name is spelt differently on the cabin side from the water can!

 

[alan_fincher]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And regarding the spelling, I notice the name is spelt differently on the cabin side from the water can!

 

 

I'm sure I have heard an explanation for the unusual spelling of "Dehli", but I'll be blowed if I can remember what that explanation is!

[MtB]

Just now, alan_fincher said:

 

I'm sure I have heard an explanation for the unusual spelling of "Dehli", but I'll be blowed if I can remember what that explanation is!

 

Maybe the uncle who 'zero timed' the engine, also lettered it!!

[roland elsdon]

I bought her 70 ft sister in 2000 for 72000, and sold in 2006 for about the same. 85000 is about the same. Apparently shes 6.10 because when rebottomed a strip was removed. Dont know what that would do to the framings. Her sister went everywhere a 70 ft can go.

Strangely im suddenly  currently asking 85000 for my boat.

[MtB]

Its a lovely looking boat. Intimidatingly clean, smart and tidy.

 

Not for me though, I'd soon having it looking a right wreck!

Edited July 5, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, Derek R. said:

 a few degrees before

This has come up in a couple of posts. For a JP it's around 24 degrees, which is quite a few

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, pete harrison said:

When B.C.N. gauged (BCN1606 - 29 May 1930 and named as DELHI) 

 

5 hours ago, pete harrison said:

... the fore end became the hire cruiser WATER VIPER. ... renamed CHARIENE, a name it carried into the early 2000's -

 

So who along the chain of rebuilding since the early 2000s was unable to spell 'DELHI'? 

If I was buying it the first thing I would want to do would be to get a signwriter to repaint a couple of the letters on each side! 

[Derek R.]

Searching for spill timing on the JP2 has come up with some results, though I still have no idea what 'zero' timing is. It may even refer to the point at which the injector pump STOPS injecting fuel.

However, 18° - 20° BTDC (before top dead centre) seems to be the point at which the injector pump should begin to pump fuel to the injector.

More info:

http://www.utterpower.com/lister_s.htm

Scroll down to past the images for spill timing. It should be noted that this is for CS engines, though the same timing figures for a JP (Joint Productiom between Lister and Ruston Hornsby) appear elsewhere.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Articles/rrchapt6.htm

Scroll down just past halfway for FUEL PUMP TIMING. 20° BTDC seems optimum.

Lastly, there are manuals available through Winget:

http://www.winget.co.uk/document/LISTER ST WORKSHOP MANUAL.pdf

Though it was flagging a 25 minute download, so I didn't wait.

 

NB: Most of my petrol engined vehicles are timed at static around 8° - 10° BTDC, and around 30° at 3000rpm and controlled by the automatic advance and retard mechanism. Such a mechanism is (I believe correctly) not fitted to old diesel engines! So we have a difference of volatility of the fuel used which will almost certainly affect burn rate and flame travel between diesel and petrol, as well as the rpm attainable. The twin plugged Guzzi engine will require slightly less advance due to two plugs firing the fuel, but not by a great deal.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Derek R.
Added text

[Movin' on]

11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I've just had a brief goggle for "zero timing" in relation the diesels and there are no meaningful results for that term, so the advertiser has perhaps either heard it wrong or been bamboozled with gobbledegook by the uncle. 

Just to throw in another thought on this - it may mean zero hours as in the engine has been rebuilt and zero’d from that point???

[mark99]

13 hours ago, Athy said:

MEA CULPA!

It wasn't you, it was your Alvecote boat-jousting rival! My apologies.

They merge into one after a while......... always posting and appearing together, owners of vast fleets of hulks each.   

[alan_fincher]

35 minutes ago, mark99 said:

They merge into one after a while......... always posting and appearing together, owners of vast fleets of hulks each.   

I'm sorry, but we no longer own as large a fleet as MTB now does.

 

Mind you the accumulated age of our smaller fleet is doubtless greater!

[magnetman]

On 03/07/2018 at 11:59, sparrowcycles said:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302791044812

 

Here's an interesting one. Underneath the houseboat conversion is apparently a Manchester ship canal barge, I'm not sure myself but I'd love to know what it really is. 

Regents canal barge I reckon.

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, Derek R. said:

Such a mechanism is (I believe correctly) not fitted to old diesel engines!

You are correct. It's the end of fuel delivery that is governed, not the start

 

Richard

[Stilllearning]

3 hours ago, Halsey said:

Just to throw in another thought on this - it may mean zero hours as in the engine has been rebuilt and zero’d from that point???

That was what I guessed it might mean, but it is not a phrase I have ever heard before in relation to engines.

[X Alan W]

19 hours ago, pete harrison said:

When B.C.N. gauged (BCN1606 - 29 May 1930 and named as DELHI) DEHLI had a measured beam of 7'1'' - but having being built into what it is now I suppose it could be any beam the owner wanted 

But if the boat has a replacement base plate with wear flange it would probably end up 7' or over

[X Alan W]

5 hours ago, Derek R. said:

Searching for spill timing on the JP2 has come up with some results, though I still have no idea what 'zero' timing is. It may even refer to the point at which the injector pump STOPS injecting fuel.

However, 18° - 20° BTDC (before top dead centre) seems to be the point at which the injector pump should begin to pump fuel to the injector.

More info:

http://www.utterpower.com/lister_s.htm

Scroll down to past the images for spill timing. It should be noted that this is for CS engines, though the same timing figures for a JP (Joint Productiom between Lister and Ruston Hornsby) appear elsewhere.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Articles/rrchapt6.htm

Scroll down just past halfway for FUEL PUMP TIMING. 20° BTDC seems optimum.

Lastly, there are manuals available through Winget:

http://www.winget.co.uk/document/LISTER ST WORKSHOP MANUAL.pdf

Though it was flagging a 25 minute download, so I didn't wait.

 

NB: Most of my petrol engined vehicles are timed at static around 8° - 10° BTDC, and around 30° at 3000rpm and controlled by the automatic advance and retard mechanism. Such a mechanism is (I believe correctly) not fitted to old diesel engines! So we have a difference of volatility of the fuel used which will almost certainly affect burn rate and flame travel between diesel and petrol, as well as the rpm attainable. The twin plugged Guzzi engine will require slightly less advance due to two plugs firing the fuel, but not by a great deal.

 

Did the twin plug set up on the Guzzi fire at the same time ? i had a RobinJackson twin plug head set up on a 1954 Manx Norton engine powering a F3 cooper race car the single magneto provided 2 sparks (2 sets  of points)& the non standard plug fired a few degrees after the original

[RLWP]

3 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Did the twin plug set up on the Guzzi fire at the same time ? i had a RobinJackson twin plug head set up on a 1954 Manx Norton engine powering a F3 cooper race car the single magneto provided 2 sparks (2 sets  of points)& the non standard plug fired a few degrees after the original

[pete harrison]

18 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

But if the boat has a replacement base plate with wear flange it would probably end up 7' or over

Only if the hull is flat sided, but I can not remember whether these 'Station boats' have a slightly angled chine (I think they do), and how straight the sides are following alterations to the boat it is now 

[BEngo]

9 hours ago, Halsey said:

Just to throw in another thought on this - it may mean zero hours as in the engine has been rebuilt and zero’d from that point???

Yep.    Zero-timing is a General Aviation expression meaning that a component (engine, gearbox, CSDU etc.) has been rebuilt to the extent that it now has an authorised installed life the same as a new part and when installed the log card records zero hours used. 

 

Doesn't mean you will get all the authorised life though!  IIRC a helicopter engine of my acquaintance had an authorised life of 1200 hours.  The actual mean time between replacements was well less and to get one to 900 hours was worthy of a party.!

 

 

N

 

[X Alan W]

5 hours ago, pete harrison said:

Only if the hull is flat sided, but I can not remember whether these 'Station boats' have a slightly angled chine (I think they do), and how straight the sides are following alterations to the boat it is now 

Many years a go I looked at a station boat"Forward"as far as I remember it was flat sides but at that time it was composite Denis Clarke surveyed it but advised that as it had no keelson I would do better with a "Josher" or small GU i ended up buying "Crater"

[alan_fincher]

Not the best picture in the world, but Station Boat construction can be seen in this well known example.....