Historic Boats for sale online

[magnetman]

I don't know the answer but the story was there was some old git who owned several boats which were moored on piles outside the old waterworks just below Thames Ditton Marina. He was awkward to deal with and let several boats sink over the yars despite people trying to buy them. In total there were 3 narrow boats, a thames tug and a lighter barge. Of these 2 of the narrow boats sunk, the tug sunk and one of the narrow boats (Grand Union motor) was removed before sinking and is now at Laleham. The tug was later salvaged and removed to the same place at Laleham (4allmarine).

 

The area where the boats were is subject to redevelopment by Thames water as an extraction point for a treatment plant. The boats had been down for a long time and the moorings piles had been removed so effectively these things were obstructions and basically waste products. 

 

I would hazard a guess that the riparian ownership there is with Thames Water and that they just wanted everything cleared so it seems entirely probable that the person salvaging the craft was allowed to keep whatever he floated.

 

My theory could be wrong but suspect this is what happened.

 

Needs checking obviously. I think original owner is pushing up daises these days.

 

 

The subject of the Grand Union motor narrow boat did come up here some yars ago as somebody was concerned it was going to go down but I'm not sure how to find the thread. None of the boats were advertised for sale as far as I know until now but I know that people had been trying to buy them.

 

 

 

ETA here is the story from 2014.

 

 

Just to clarify the Pegasus did not sink. It was removed while afloat.

 

Both the salvaged boats are modern boats. I think they are actually quite nice boats but I don't know where the 1937 thing came from as it isn't correct.

 

 

Picture of Pegasus and the  butty before the butty went down and also some of when the boat looked immaculate previously.

 

https://hnbc.org.uk/boats/pegasus

 

 

The Pegasus is a Star class Composite Grand Union boat.

Edited March 10, 2023 by magnetman

[David Mack]

Pegasus was acquired by Michael Pinnock and restored. It is now part of his fleet delivering fuel around the London area.

It won the HNBC's Hemelryk Award for the most improved iron/steel/composite boat of 2022.

https://hnbc.org.uk/awards

Edited March 10, 2023 by David Mack

[magnetman]

i'm a bit slow these days ! He comes past me regularly with it I didn't even notice it was the same boat. 

It might have one of my magnet boat hooks on it by now as I gave him some of them recently. 

 

 

[David Mack]

On 09/03/2023 at 08:36, merline said:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/narrowboatsforsaleuk/permalink/2638259129659482/

Interesting story here....

Ad no longer visible. So has it been sold?

[alan_fincher]

From Facebook...

 

 

Quote

 

1911 FELLOWS MORTON & CLAYTON FMC EX STEAMER

Fellowes, Morton & Clayton EX STEAMER WORKING NARROWBOAT 1911.

Historic boat .. one hundred & twelve years old .. stunning working history.

Kelvin K2Marine engine.

Would make fabulous live-aboard.

Kudos overload.

We shall be very happy to consider any & all sensible offers .. the “right person” of utmost importance.

07825 177322

 

 

[magnetman]

OWL? (K2)

Kudos overload? Oh dear !

My favourite narrow boat of all of them but I'm not having a narrow again..

[David Mack]

16 minutes ago, magnetman said:

OWL? (K2)

Kudos overload? Oh dear !

My favourite narrow boat of all of them but I'm not having a narrow again..

Owl is a 1928 Bolinder boat, not a 1911 steamer.

 

Maybe Vanguard

https://hnbc.org.uk/boats/vanguard

Edited March 11, 2023 by David Mack

[stagedamager]

I thought it was Vanguard listed for sale

[agg221]

Vanguard looks the most likely. The only other 1911 composite steamer is Victory which is still around but not sure what engine it has in it currently?

 

Alec

[davidg]

48 minutes ago, agg221 said:

Vanguard looks the most likely. The only other 1911 composite steamer is Victory which is still around but not sure what engine it has in it currently?

 

Alec

It ain’t Victory.

And to answer the question a CE2

Edited March 13, 2023 by davidg

[magnetman]

Lister CE2 is a nice unit. 

Not as impressive as a K2 but possibly more practical I think and slightly less ear damage. 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Lister CE2 is a nice unit. 

Not as impressive as a K2 but possibly more practical I think and slightly less ear damage. 

 

 

My K2 is rather quiet actually. A helluvalot quieter than the Skandia ever was! 

 

 

[GUMPY]

16 hours ago, magnetman said:

Lister CE2 is a nice unit. 

Until the crank breaks, common fault with them. There were a lot of ex GPO ones about in the early 90's. Two friends fitted them despite the warning about cranks, both broke their cranks within 10 years.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Loddon

[Stroudwater1]

What is the  difference between a CE and CE2? I thought it was the CE that has a crank that can break? 

[David Mack]

8 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

What is the  difference between a CE and CE2? I thought it was the CE that has a crank that can break? 

CE2 is a name sometimes incorrectly applied to the Lister CE, which is a 2 cylinder engine. The one cylinder version is the CD.

[furnessvale]

9 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

What is the  difference between a CE and CE2? I thought it was the CE that has a crank that can break? 

Don't know about the CE, but the Petter PD2 had that reputation.  I never had that problem but I put it down to only bolting 3 engine mounts down before carefully shimming the last one.  Probably all in my head,  but I was trying to remove any possibility of crankcase distortion.

[Tonka]

20 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Don't know about the CE, but the Petter PD2 had that reputation.  I never had that problem but I put it down to only bolting 3 engine mounts down before carefully shimming the last one.  Probably all in my head,  but I was trying to remove any possibility of crankcase distortion.

I had a PD2 and I dread to think how much an oil change would cost today. It used to take a case of Delvac and even then it was never on max. 

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

I had a PD2 and I dread to think how much an oil change would cost today. It used to take a case of Delvac and even then it was never on max. 

 

 

In principle the larger the reservoir of oil, the less frequently it needs changing, I'd have thought...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by MtB
Missing worm

[Tonka]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

In principle the larger the reservoir of oil, the less frequently it changing, I'd have thought...

 

 

 

 

You may be right but thinking like that may be why they broke the Crankshaft. I used to change the oil annually 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Tonka
Spelling

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

You may be right but thinking like that may be why they broke the Crankshaft. I used to change the oil annually 

 

 

Crankshafts don't break from contaminated lubrication. It will be either a flaw in the forging or metal fatigue, I'd have thought...

 

 

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Crankshafts don't break from contaminated lubrication. It will be either a flaw in the forging or metal fatigue, I'd have thought...

 

So why is it that certain engines earn a reputation for it.

 

Having seen a Petter PD2 crank (in two pieces!) laid alongside one from a Lister HA2, all parts of the Petter offering are massive compared to the Lister.

 

On might think that "massiveness" equated to strength, and expect the much less heavily engineered Lister to be the more prone to breaking, but I have never heard of an HA suffering such a failure, but one hears of plenty of examples with the Petter.

 

I believe the PD2 was principally built as a fixed speed industrial engine - could the failures in boa use be because it is put under much more strain with constant varying of the speed and load, rather than just chugging along all day under a constant load, and at constant speed?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

So why is it that certain engines earn a reputation for it.

 

Poor quality control in the forging, I'd suggest. 

 

I could ask why failing to change the oil regularly results in busted cranks on some engine models but not others. If you are arguing that failing to perform timely oil changes is the cause, that is. Are you? 

 

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Poor quality control in the forging, I'd suggest. 

 

I could ask why failing to change the oil regularly results in busted cranks on some engine models but not others. If you are arguing that failing to perform timely oil changes is the cause, that is. Are you?

 

No.  Like you I doubt that "newness" of the oil is a major factor.

But I don't know a lot about what makes one diesel long lasting, and another prone to early failure.

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

But I don't know a lot about what makes one diesel long lasting, and another prone to early failure.

 

I think that makes two of us. 

 

On reflection I think that makes all of us, in the world! 

 

If anyone knew, word would spread and all engines would be made the 'long lasting' way.

 

 

[David Mack]

Putting the flywheel on the front of the engine and taking the drive from the back, as the older 'vintage' diesels do, puts a pretty big strain on the crankshaft if the propeller suddenly stops rotating and the flywheel tries to carry on (especially with the heavy flywheels of slow running engines). Whereas putting the flywheel between the load and the engine protects the crankshaft to a large extent.