alan_fincher Posted September 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Just now, Liam said: Badsey was re-enginedesigned a good few years ago. It now has the original engine (same serial number!l Yes, I know that, which is why I said "have had"". I first knew badsey as a Perkins P3 powered boat. Strange beast the P3 - ours we had in a boat in the 1970s was considerably older than any of the air-cooled Listers. Max RPM, power, torque etc all make them suitable, but they don't quite feel right in a working boat in the same way that newer Listers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Apologies, misread that as I'm on my phone. I cant even manage to spell properly on this thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 picture has now been added to the advert for Otley and yes it is the boat on the satellite view I linked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, magnetman said: picture has now been added to the advert for Otley and yes it is the boat on the satellite view I linked to. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, magnetman said: picture has now been added to the advert for Otley and yes it is the boat on the satellite view I linked to. I think they could still try a bit harder! Better than nothing, I guess. I suspect it's neither fish nor foul. The "under cloth" steelwork is probably not substantial enough or maybe otherwise not suitable to form an under cloth conversion, but equally would all need stripping off to go back to working condition. With no indication of hull condition, or any recent work thereon, it is hard to judge if the starting price is realistic or not. On the face of it though a possibly better prospect than one that was repeatedly offered for sale. (Maybe!) Edited September 17, 2017 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Apparently rebottomed and refooted at Wfbco in 2003. Yes it does seem quite a lot better than Tadworth! Would be nice to see in the back cabin. I'd be happy with a P3/D3. Nice engines with plenty of grunt even if they lack polishable parts. i saw Dove recently. The deconversion of Otley looks a lot easier than when Dove was deconverted from being the waterbus Brittania ! Nice boat for someone IMO Edited September 17, 2017 by magnetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. W. Walker Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 On 9/16/2017 at 11:50, alan_fincher said: Strange beast the P3 - ours we had in a boat in the 1970s was considerably older than any of the air-cooled Listers. Max RPM, power, torque etc all make them suitable, but they don't quite feel right in a working boat in the same way that newer Listers do. Perkins P3 engines are "old school" in terms of rpm, torque as in post above, but they most certainly don't feel "vintage"! Probably because they are really an automotive engine, and hence that derivation gives a different "feel" to it - just like a BMC 1.5 is also very "automotive". Hence also why there isn't much to polish. Often found in vans and commercial vehicles of the period. Having spent a lot of time working on P3's and their bigger brothers the P4 and P6, they aren't something I recall with any affection. Not nice to work on, horribly rough and shaky, particularly the P3, nearly always smoke badly and usually an absolute bas***d to start on a cold morning! Their other party piece, when worked hard, is that they are prone to "putting a leg out of bed" i.e. throwing a con-rod through the side of the block! Perhaps less of a risk on a canal boat installation where they don't get worked so hard. Kindest thing you can say about the "P" series engines is that they aren't as bad as the Perkins L and R series! Sorry to pour cold water on this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, D. W. Walker said: Perkins P3 engines are "old school" in terms of rpm, torque as in post above, but they most certainly don't feel "vintage"! Probably because they are really an automotive engine, and hence that derivation gives a different "feel" to it - just like a BMC 1.5 is also very "automotive". Hence also why there isn't much to polish. Often found in vans and commercial vehicles of the period. Having spent a lot of time working on P3's and their bigger brothers the P4 and P6, they aren't something I recall with any affection. Not nice to work on, horribly rough and shaky, particularly the P3, nearly always smoke badly and usually an absolute bas***d to start on a cold morning! Their other party piece, when worked hard, is that they are prone to "putting a leg out of bed" i.e. throwing a con-rod through the side of the block! Perhaps less of a risk on a canal boat installation where they don't get worked so hard. Kindest thing you can say about the "P" series engines is that they aren't as bad as the Perkins L and R series! Sorry to pour cold water on this thread! Not sure I would agree..... Quite a few ex working boats have a P3, or have had a P3. A member on here has a very well presented converted boat, and has told me he is more than happy with it, and no plans to change. Generally where I have known of one swapped out, I thought it was to go back to something more appropriate to the original history of the boat, than because the engine was awful. We had a P3 in a boat in the 1970s, that was not a suitable match to boat or propeller, not being able to make maximum use of the power available, but the engine itself was always reliable. The only issue we had with it was a failure of the spring on the oil pressure bypass relief valve, resulting suddenly in much reduced oil pressure, (but sufficient to get home with). Unfortunately unlike some engines this is buried inside, and needed the engine lifted and sump off to fix it. Last I heard it was still in the boat 45 (or so) years later. What vehicles do you reckon the P3 was used in? I've seen them in small tractors, I think, but am not aware of any use in road vehicles. Edited September 22, 2017 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: We had a P3 in a boat in the 1970s, that was not a suitable match to boat or propeller, not being able to make maximum use of the power available, but the engine itself was always reliable. The only issue we had with it was a failure of the spring on the oil pressure bypass relief valve, resulting suddenly in much reduced oil pressure, (but sufficient to get home with). Unfortunately unlike some engines this is buried inside, and needed the engine lifted and sump off to fix it.Last I heard it was still in the boat 45 (or so) years later. Replaced in 2005 with a Beta Marine Kubota with a P.R.M. gearbox. edit = Edited September 22, 2017 by pete harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 minute ago, pete harrison said: Replaced in 2005 with a Beta Marine Kubota with a P.R.M. gearbox. edit = Fair enough! Is there anything in the world of old narrow Boats that you don't have records of Pete! (Don't answer that - I know there are some gaps in some of your boat histories - and I still can't tell you the date that the last owner of Flamingo acquired it, and I doubt I will ever know!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koukouvagia Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 17/09/2017 at 19:12, alan_fincher said: The "under cloth" steelwork is probably not substantial enough or maybe otherwise not suitable to form an under cloth conversion, but equally would all need stripping off to go back to working condition. I am curious to know what prompts this observation. Both Owl and Hampton started their undercloth conversion lives with steelwork looking just like that. If WFBCo did the steelwork the gunwales will have been straitened and strengthened so that there is no need for bracing A frames to keep the boat drawn in. Provided the conversion is well insulated there is no reason why Otley should not make a good conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, koukouvagia said: I am curious to know what prompts this observation. Both Owl and Hampton started their undercloth conversion lives with steelwork looking just like that. If WFBCo did the steelwork the gunwales will have been straitened and strengthened so that there is no need for bracing A frames to keep the boat drawn in. Provided the conversion is well insulated there is no reason why Otley should not make a good conversion. The way it read, I assumed the steel top was not part of the work done by WFBCo. It looks incomplete, and the advert talks about "the start of a steel top". Unless they ran out of money why would WFBCo send it away incomplete? But I don't know the history, and am happy to be corrected if somebody else does. I was also trying to decide if it is the right height to look correct as an under-cloth conversion. It seems that on some GUCCCo "Towns" the top plank is higher at the rear end than the back end beam, but on others it is not, so I'm not convinced thre is any "right" answer on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 11 hours ago, alan_fincher said: What vehicles do you reckon the P3 was used in? I've seen them in small tractors, I think, but am not aware of any use in road vehicles. The Trojan Van had P3 as standard spec power unit in my early boating days a boat " Grange end"? was fitted with a complete Trojan front end ,parts of the Chassis, radiator, road engine & GB, even drivers seat, maneuvering required a person iin the drivers seat in the engine "ole a bus type bell between steerer & engine man & on the signal the clutch was dipped & reverse/forward gear was engaged i remember being up behind on the Shoppie & being held up he started to draw away in the end I couldn't keep up. At WA lock I asked what had happened & it seems a bit of fiddling with gear ratios had been done that's when I saw his power unit set up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 hours ago, alan_fincher said: What vehicles do you reckon the P3 was used in? I've seen them in small tractors, I think, but am not aware of any use in road vehicles. Trojan Van/personnel carrier, early 1950's. More drama starting it than a kelvin K petrol start. Ki-gass starting system with hand priming pump, inlet air heater and counting 30seconds to pressing start button, by which time the battery is on it's last legs . Muir-Hill LH1 loading shovel, same era. IIRC these were designated P3.144 (V) v for vehicle, with chain driven valve gear. There was a gear driven version ,was that D3.152? Once started,performance was reasonable for a small diesel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 hour ago, koukouvagia said: I am curious to know what prompts this observation. Both Owl and Hampton started their undercloth conversion lives with steelwork looking just like that. If WFBCo did the steelwork the gunwales will have been straitened and strengthened so that there is no need for bracing A frames to keep the boat drawn in. Provided the conversion is well insulated there is no reason why Otley should not make a good conversion. Does having the steel gunwales completely do away with the need for chains, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midsmatt Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 47 minutes ago, zenataomm said: No What does then? I've always wondered what the get around for this was as I've seen apparently very differing views on what's best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 I did wonder, i've got camping boat style 'A' frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midsmatt Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 minute ago, BWM said: I did wonder, i've got camping boat style 'A' frames. Do you know what they're made from? ie softwood or hardwood? Or in one case I spotted layers of glued ply panel... strong but not the sexiest looking solution it has to be said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, midsmatt said: Do you know what they're made from? ie softwood or hardwood? Or in one case I spotted layers of glued ply panel... strong but not the sexiest looking solution it has to be said! Welded steel of a fairly heavy construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midsmatt Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, BWM said: Welded steel of a fairly heavy construction. That's better than some... I imagine a few boats have spread due to removing the chains and so on and thinking a few lightweight supports would hold it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Substantial steel bulwarks or bulkheads welded to knees twixt the horizontal and the vertical elements there of and disguised as a cabin wall. Converted Town Class Gainsborough when owned by Euan Corrie (possibly still is, but I believe it has benefitted from the creeping de-conversions now) used to have spaces in the cabin sides where if you moved the books and then the speakers opposite you could still attach the chains and bottle screws. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagedamager Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Our a frames are made from 100x50x3mm box section. They work a treat. We have 2 styles, with the box on edge and on flat. Both work a treat. Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midsmatt Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 3 hours ago, stagedamager said: Our a frames are made from 100x50x3mm box section. They work a treat. We have 2 styles, with the box on edge and on flat. Both work a treat. Dan I'd love to see some of your work Dan... perhaps on another thread or linked? Hold on a tic... I 'sort of' know you... Lyra and Harrier are coming to see you soon aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagedamager Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 yes they are! Here you go, these are a set made for my BCN day boat, including one for a mast, and one for a stove pipe.......just in case! Originally we were going to have an undercloth fit out..... until we bought Oak and Ash. Kind Regards Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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