Historic Boats for sale online

[pete harrison]

But the beauty of the hydraulic drive is that the engine can be placed more or less anywhere that suits, allowing you to retain a butty back cabin that is completely unaltered.

I fully appreciate the benefits of fitting a hydraulic drive and remote engine location to a butty.

 

I still do not appreciate a back cabin that has been fitted with little or no imagination, and clearly little research to the placing of everything from the cabin step to cupboard design and location - after all there are no shortage of back cabins to use as a general reference. To my eye this cabin is so bad it may as well be ripped out either to be refitted properly or used as an engine room for a hydraulic drive.

[Jeebee]

Don't think anyone has posted France here for sale through Virginia Currer.

 

http://www.vcmarine.co.uk/boatsnb/france.html

 

[magnetman]

I fully appreciate the benefits of fitting a hydraulic drive and remote engine location to a butty.

 

I still do not appreciate a back cabin that has been fitted with little or no imagination, and clearly little research to the placing of everything from the cabin step to cupboard design and location - after all there are no shortage of back cabins to use as a general reference. To my eye this cabin is so bad it may as well be ripped out either to be refitted properly or used as an engine room for a hydraulic drive.

Would that boat have had a back cabin originally? I thought it was a horse drawn day boat not a butty?

 

I could well be wrong !

 

What I mean is if it didn't have one then an incorrectly laid out cabin is 'ok' in a way...

[pete harrison]

Would that boat have had a back cabin originally? I thought it was a horse drawn day boat not a butty?

 

I could well be wrong !

 

What I mean is if it didn't have one then an incorrectly laid out cabin is 'ok' in a way...

I am afraid you are wrong.

 

GILBERT was one of six L.M.S.R. boats built with a cabin and full running gear for use on the Staffs and Worcs Canal. It was health registered as a dwelling as Wolverhampton 1135 on 10 February 1930. GILBERT was a horse boat rather than a butty, and the hull design is similar to all of the others that the L.M.S.R. had built by W.J. Yarwood and Sons Ltd..

 

I am not aware of an original cabin plan being available for an L.M.S.R. horse boat but by the 1930's these were fairly standard. I think it fair that should a back cabin be constructed nowadays it should be to that standard and accepted design, and therefore a usable and comfortable place to reside - whether there is a full length cabin conversion or not.

[alan_fincher]

I don't think this has been listed before?

 

Peter Keay tug "Progress"

[Admiral]

This came up today!

 

Link

Edited November 21, 2014 by Admiral

[magnetman]

very nice !

[alan_fincher]

This came up today!

 

Link

 

It is refreshing to see something advertised as having a "typical ‘Josher’ style bow" that actually has one!

 

Interesting it is apparently still composite, retaining a wooden bottom.

[Timleech]

 

It is refreshing to see something advertised as having a "typical ‘Josher’ style bow" that actually has one!

 

Interesting it is apparently still composite, retaining a wooden bottom.

 

They don't say what timber was used, and a bit surprising to find it for sale just after the major expense of a new bottom. Makes me wonder if there is a story there.

I spent many hours steering that boat in the late 60s/early 70s. At that time it had a derated HA2, only about 15 bhp, but would still fly given enough water.

 

Tim

[magnetman]

anyone know who did the motor stern? It looks really good to me

the tiller and elum tube look like original equipment but it says it was a horse drawn originally.

[magnetman]

Moorings too expensive in London? or maybe potential customers want to see something other than scruffy liveaboards out of those nice big windows

 

 

 

snip

Makes me wonder if there is a story there.

 

Tim

 

edit to sort out quote

Edited November 21, 2014 by magnetman

[ChimneyChain]

Well according to HNBC it's always been a motor.

 

Darren

[alan_fincher]

anyone know who did the motor stern? It looks really good to me

the tiller and elum tube look like original equipment but it says it was a horse drawn originally.

 

Yes, but it suggests that it was converted from horse boat to Bolinder boat by FMC many, many years ago, so you might expect everything at the back to look pretty authentic!

 

EDITED TO ADD: I'm just acknowledging that is what the advert says - it may or may not be correct, I have no idea!

 

However my reading of it is that the engine is at the back, where a back cabin should be, not in the "traditional place for an engine room.

Edited November 21, 2014 by alan_fincher

[Timleech]

I must admit I didn't know (if indeed it's true - no doubt P. Harrison can confirm or contradict!) it had been built as a horse boat, always thought it was just one of the first motor boats.

Yes, the engine was put in the stern when BWB converted it into a trip boat.

 

Tim

[magnetman]

I didn't realise it was converted by "FMC" . Thats why the stern is so good !!

[Derek R.]

For use as a Zoo Waterbus? I'm sure Pete will be along sometime to inform.

[junior]

They don't say what timber was used, and a bit surprising to find it for sale just after the major expense of a new bottom. Makes me wonder if there is a story there.

 

Tim

Purely speculation, but CRT have been faffing around with new commercial/trade mooring in Paddington Basin, where this boat has been/is moored. It has its own mooring with electric bollard outside a restaurant that I had always assumed it was associated with.

 

Maybe as part of the new scheme they have been asked to move, or had the fee's increased. Or maybe they just don't want/need it anymore!

[alan_fincher]

From the CRT Digital Archive

 

 

Black and white photograph showing the "Fellows, Morton & Clayton Ltd" motor 'Lapwing' and a butty (number "121"). There are 2 men at the stern of 'Lapwing', one of whom is holding a gauging stick between the boats.

 

 

Date 1930s

[Steve Priest]

Lapwing was built as a motor, at Saltley, 1913, one of the first batch of Bolinder boats ( Linda, Lynx, Laurel, Lily, Lupin etc)

[Timleech]

Here it is, as Water Lapwing, as a trip boat in BWB ownership, late 1950s or early 1960s, in Dutton Stop Lock.

 

 

It had that style of conversion until it left this area. It was actually removed, and afterwards replaced, early in Peter Froud's ownership, so that the boat could be loaded with timber as part of a consignment taken from Manchester Docks to Leicester. The rest was taken by Short Boat over the Leeds & Liverpool.

 

They've just today finished fitting a new top gate to the lock, I wish they had followed that pattern of paddle gear!

What they have used is taller than the last lot, so

(a) you have to be tall with long arms to reach over it to the handrail, and it's fitted with safety guards to cover the gearing so that

(b ) the front guard pushes you further out from the gate, when crossing the footboard, than did the last lot (which was bad enough), and

( c) the rear guard is actually in contact with the handrail, so that even of you can reach the handrail over the paddlegear you suddenly find that your grip is forced off by the guard, unseen because the paddlegear is in your line of sight between hand and eye.

 

Rant over.

 

Tim

[RLWP]

This came up today!

 

Link

 

I can't decide about that price. Is it higher because the boat is ex FMC, old, with a new bottom and you can use it to run a business. Or is it lower because it would need to be completely refitted to be either a 'working boat' or a toy boat

 

Richard

[Laurence Hogg]

 

I can't decide about that price. Is it higher because the boat is ex FMC, old, with a new bottom and you can use it to run a business. Or is it lower because it would need to be completely refitted to be either a 'working boat' or a toy boat

 

Richard

Be a good boat turned over for educational use, can see some school going for that.

[alan_fincher]

 

I can't decide about that price. Is it higher because the boat is ex FMC, old, with a new bottom and you can use it to run a business. Or is it lower because it would need to be completely refitted to be either a 'working boat' or a toy boat

 

Richard

 

The one thing I have come to a conclusion about with "historic" boats is that there is little logic to how the asking prices are decided, or indeed what they actually sell for, if different, (assuming they ever do - some just continue to fail to!).)

 

Some pricing may just be sheer trying it on by the vendors, (or they may equally have no real idea, and hence not trying it on at all), but frankly every boat is so different, even if you have seen quite a few, it is hard to place any new one you view into the spectrum and say "I think that is probably worth £nn,nnn".

 

I have been genuinely surprised what some have actually achieved, although I accept if you take the line "they are worth, on the day, what someone is prepared to pay" that perhaps my idea of true value was wrong. However in some of those cases I suspect if the new owner put them back on the market shortly after they would probably not recoup anything like what they paid, because they will not find anyone else as attracted to the boat as they were.

 

Trip boats are an even odder thing to price I think. From memory "Lancing" was originally offered for about £40K, but eventually being marketed for about half that. Even so I was getting messages saying "offer £16K cash, and they might accept". That said, by all accounts, Lancing was in a fairly appalling state, but at least for anybody looking at a boat to either make residential, or deconvert the engine and back cabin arrangements had remained original. I never heard what it did make in the end.

 

Clearly the fact that "Lapwing" is proper FMC motor must count for a lot, (although personally I would not get involved in planked bottoms).

Edited November 21, 2014 by alan_fincher

[Tuscan]

I think you are right Alan there is little logic, to pricing. But then look at how much has been spent on some historic boats whether converted or not but I don't honestly think any sane person would expect to recover their costs.

 

I think you almost have to forget about any one else's valuation and focus on what budget you have. We've heard a couple of stories this year where the deal was done because the owner and vendor clicked and the price was adjusted to make the sale and others where the reverse was true.

[Derek R.]

Any market place will be driven by fear and greed, Fear of losing a "bargain" - and greed for wanting something so bad that emotion drives out logic.

If you could obtain an old boat riddled with problems for nothing, then how much would it cost to renovate into a sound and usable craft? I suspect more time and money than most could muster, but that element of emotion rears its head, and with more disposable income sitting in bank accounts earning diddly squat in interest, chances are taken. You can't take it with you, so enjoy what it could bring while still alive. This affects what "value" an item has, and for those of us who are drawn to the long gone community of the working boats, we make up for it by attempting to re-create something of value that has passed. In a sense it works, as there are so many rallies and gatherings around the system which draw previous boat owners and handlers for a good chin-wag, something that modern day society has lost in the mists of time and technology - though the latter has brought many together again through the internet, because the pubs that were once social meeting places have gone up-market or just gone.