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Traveling on a canal at night?


Foxtrot

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On ‎19‎/‎01‎/‎2013 at 11:31, RLWP said:

 

Those sort of 'word swap' errors are becoming more common due to predictive texting on smartphones, I thought it might be one of those

 

To be honest, I enjoy the strangeness of the imagery that these accidents create in my mind. Barges worked by circus clowns was too good not to celebrate

 

Richard

Being dislectic I was very annoyed when my sister bought me an awful speller dictionary. 60 years later I think it was a good idea.

 

But back to the main subject BWB used to discourage the use of locks at night on the grounds of safety.  Navigation lights are regulated by laws red/green port and starboard white to the rear each light covering 1/3 of the circle tunnel lights are not mandatory but useful. 

Edited by The Bagdad Boatman (waits)
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2 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

I suspect the "don't travel in snow and ice" comment was more about personal safety than anything else. Getting on and off a boat at locks etc involves concentrating and not having to hurry. Having boated in ice, snow and overnight, it was ice and snow that I found the most dangerous.

That is true, in bygone days the boaters used to have a spot lock side near the hedgerow where they tipped their stove ash pans you could then spread it on the gate foot boards & other "iffy" spots lock side to help with anti slip or for racking leaky gates I doubt if folk would tolerate the  spread ash nowadays but now it is not imperative to keep going I found clogs with hob nails in the sole/heel the best for anti slip In theory shouldn't have been but worked good in practice

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1 hour ago, X Alan W said:

That is true, in bygone days the boaters used to have a spot lock side near the hedgerow where they tipped their stove ash pans you could then spread it on the gate foot boards & other "iffy" spots lock side to help with anti slip or for racking leaky gates I doubt if folk would tolerate the  spread ash nowadays but now it is not imperative to keep going I found clogs with hob nails in the sole/heel the best for anti slip In theory shouldn't have been but worked good in practice

I well remember learning the ash method of blocking leaky gates from older BW staff on the K&A. One pointed out to me where they put sacks of ash behind trees at each lock, so that leaking gates could be made temporarily watertight, thus saving time and water.

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3 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

I well remember learning the ash method of blocking leaky gates from older BW staff on the K&A. One pointed out to me where they put sacks of ash behind trees at each lock, so that leaking gates could be made temporarily watertight, thus saving time and water.

Seems strange that the 2 members owning up to gate racking with stove ash now reside in France possibly a good thing some would say.

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22 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Maybe down to the definition of night, you could take a 6 hour break between 10pm and 4am which would mean you are boating when it is still possible to see without additional lights on at that time of year.

The definition of night is " the hours between sunset and sunrise". I think this is what insurance companies will use.

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17 hours ago, X Alan W said:

As said & I would add check your insurance cover, as far as I remember & I don't think it"s changed/been amended you need a forward facing white light, most "Night Owls" use their tunnel lamps for this purpose Can I ask why not to travel in snow Back in the day I have done it many times when had to get a load to destination would perhaps not recommend for a leisure boater with little experience, but it is possible & feasible more than likely stoppages would probably prevent this.

wow this post is 4 years old and if i remember the snow was thick so not advisable to lock at night.

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  • 6 months later...
On 26/01/2013 at 16:26, Phil Ambrose said:

 

One thing that seems to have been neglected is that navigation lights should be of a certain size dependent on the length of the vessel.

 

Phil

Those 12m and under should have a stern light which covers the 120 degrees to the stern, the red  and green lights cover 120 degrees each.

http://www.powerboat-training.co.uk/articles/articles-nav lights.htm

Vessels over 12 metres should display an  all round [masthead] light.

I think this makes it clearer, here, a motor yacht under 20m is the same as a narrowboat, 

http://completeguide.rnli.org/navigation-lights.html

My own thinking is that as a steady white light in front of you should be the stern light of the boat travelling in front of you,   any white light up front should be in the nature of a deck light, fairly dim and illuminating the well deck/forward bulkhead, and not the water ahead of you as it could be confusing to a boat which is approaching on a reciprocal heading.

Edited by LadyG
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11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Not only that, but vessels over 12 metres should display an additional all round [mashead] light.

this makes it clearer

http://completeguide.rnli.org/navigation-lights.html


Actually, no, or at least not on waters controlled by CRT if the craft is narrow beam.

Without revisiting the whole thread to see what, if anything, was said maybe 4 years ago (!), the only requirement is that defined in the bye-laws.
 

Quote

2) A power-driven vessel, being a narrow canal boat, under way at night shall display in the forepart of the vessel, where it can best be seen and at a height above the deck or gunwhale or not less than one foot, a visible white light.


Anything else is simply  not required.

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17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Not only that, but vessels over 12 metres should display an additional all round [mashead] light.

this makes it clearer

http://completeguide.rnli.org/navigation-lights.html

You are forgetting that narrowboats are legally exempt from the Colregs lighting requirenents :

Displaying of Lights and Visual Signals

10. (1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other
than a narrow canal boat) when under way at night shall carry –

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On 30/07/2017 at 21:15, Heffalump said:

Yes good question!  Presumably it's on a per-policy inn-sewer-ants basis.  Perhaps they took out a bespoke policy!

Perhaps its not in the policy at all and hire companies just use that to stop people boating at night, just like some things can't be done because they are against the H&SE  

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22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You are forgetting that narrowboats are legally exempt from the Colregs lighting requirenents :

Displaying of Lights and Visual Signals

10. (1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other
than a narrow canal boat) when under way at night shall carry –

Oh, right, never realised that, very strange idea if you are on a major commercial waterway, maybe that is covered in the hereafter...............

Edited by LadyG
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6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

England's canals are hardly major commercial waterways

not many, but some narrowboats travel on rivers where there is commercial traffic.

Edited by LadyG
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17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Oh, right, never realised that, very strange idea if you are on a major commercial waterway, maybe that is covered in the hereafter...............

The hereinafter :

(1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other
than a narrow canal boat) when under way at night shall carry –


(a) On or in front of the foremast, or if a vessel without a foremast
then in the forepart of the vessel, and in either case at a height
above the hull of not less than four feet, a visible white light so
constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the
horizon of twenty points on the compass (225°) so fixed as to
show the light ten points (112½°) on each side of the vessel that
is, from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on either
side; and


(b) in addition to the above light, at her stern a visible white light
so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the
horizon of twelve points of the compass (135°) so fixed as to
show the light six points (67½°) from right astern on each side of
the vessel.

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49 minutes ago, LadyG said:

not many, but some narrowboats travel on rivers where there is commercial traffic.

They do, and some of them have lights that meet the Colregs,  anything less would be Darwin territory.

I am pretty sure that the Thames is the only busy commercial waterway where narrowboats meet commercial vessels a lot, and being a given that on Central London Thames after dark is not something a narrowboat skipper would normally do, I don't think the regs are paramount for narrowboat regulation.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You are forgetting that narrowboats are legally exempt from the Colregs lighting requirenents :

Displaying of Lights and Visual Signals

10. (1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other
than a narrow canal boat) when under way at night shall carry –

... when on a canal

 

e.t.a.  

These Bye-laws shall apply to every canal or inland navigation in England and Wales belonging to or under the control of the British Waterways Board except the following canals: - (a) The Lee and Stort Navigation (b) the Gloucester and Sharpness Canal (c) the River Severn Navigation

 

Edited by Iain_S
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The hereinafter :

(1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other
than a narrow canal boat)
when under way at night shall carry –


(a) On or in front of the foremast, or if a vessel without a foremast
then in the forepart of the vessel, and in either case at a height
above the hull of not less than four feet, a visible white light so
constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the
horizon of twenty points on the compass (225°) so fixed as to
show the light ten points (112½°) on each side of the vessel that
is, from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on either
side; and


(b) in addition to the above light, at her stern a visible white light
so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the
horizon of twelve points of the compass (135°) so fixed as to
show the light six points (67½°) from right astern on each side of
the vessel.

Yes but all that "hereinafter" is specifically exempted for narrow beam craft (which they deine as "having a beam of less than 7' 6"), (see highlighted bit).

There is no requirement in law for a narrow boat to have more than a simple white light on CRT waters, irrespective of whether on the Oxford Canal or the River Trent.

EDITED TO ADD:

So strictly once any boat is more than 7' 6", (so including anything claimed to be a "wide beam narrowboat"), should comply with all the stuff just detailed to travel at night, even though a narrow boat need not!

Edited by alan_fincher
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4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:


There is no requirement in law for a narrow boat to have more than a simple white light on CRT waters, irrespective of whether on the Oxford Canal or the River Trent.

OK. I'll go for a white light which is simple as long as it can be seen all round?

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49 minutes ago, matty40s said:

They do, and some of them have lights that meet the Colregs,  anything less would be Darwin territory.

I am pretty sure that the Thames is the only busy commercial waterway where narrowboats meet commercial vessels a lot, and being a given that on Central London Thames after dark is not something a narrowboat skipper would normally do, I don't think the regs are paramount for narrowboat regulation.

It's when things are extra - ordinary that one needs to know what's what.  I would not expect commercial traffic on the Thames to understand a guttering candle could be a narrowboat underway.

Edited by LadyG
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Just skimmed this thread, but wanted to point out that the Bridgewater Canal have *different rules* to CRT for night navigation.

Quote

11. NAVIGATION LIGHTS

Navigation at night is not recommended. Every vessel when underway between sunset and sunrise or in conditions of restricted visibility must have full navigation lights or as a minimum carry a suitable white light visible fore and aft. A tunnel light is not a navigation light.

 

From http://www.bridgewatercanal.co.uk/todo/codeofuse

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15 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Just skimmed this thread, but wanted to point out that the Bridgewater Canal have *different rules* to CRT for night navigation.

 

From http://www.bridgewatercanal.co.uk/todo/codeofuse

Moved a couple of boats through there with some night time cruising,  lack of locks makes it a safe decision. 

Nobody has ever challenged me, it's a wide deep cut. I stop when I know it's safe or when I know II getting tired.......and leave at crack of dawn or earlier.

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

The following indicates the requirements for navigation lights together with the list of waterways where they are required

https://www.waterways.org.uk/boating/navigating_your_boat/vhf/navigation_lights

Interesting. From the link:

Quote

On most larger waterways, including CRT commercial waterways, you are also required to show an anchor light when moored on the waterway at night – this is an all-round white light visible at 2 miles

I have to admit we certainly did not have an anchor light when moored in Castleford Cut, but the Aire & Calder is on the list where this is required, and I suppose you technically need one on the pontoons outside the Royal Armories at Leeds.

How many narrowboats even have an anchor light?  (As opposed to a too light anchor!)

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2 hours ago, matty40s said:

Moved a couple of boats through there with some night time cruising,  lack of locks makes it a safe decision. 

Nobody has ever challenged me, it's a wide deep cut. I stop when I know it's safe or when I know II getting tired.......and leave at crack of dawn or earlier.

No complaints about that - I've night cruised the Bridgewater at night too.

It was simply the stricter light requirements for the Bridgewater I was pointing out - specifically that a tunnel light is NOT an acceptable navigation light.

Mind you, the last time we came up it we forgot the maximum 24 hours in one place mooring rule and got told off at Worsley :D

 

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