turn without moving forward?

[Naughty Cal]

No, it is the moment when you admit that you lack the skill to move your boat properly...

 

 

And it's called the "wail switch" btw....

 

No it's the girly button.

[luctor et emergo]

No it's the girly button.

 

a.k.a "the wail switch"

[Higgs]

No, it is the moment when you admit that you lack the skill to move your boat properly...

 

 

And it's called the "wail switch" btw....

 

I don't think that way. Use what ever tool will get the job done. Only want the boat moving in the right direction. Simple logic.

 

No - it's called 'the switch that's there whenever I feel like using it'.

[Paul C]

Hurleston locks are very tight for 2 boats to pass each other but can be done. Also what doesn't help is its often windy there too.

 

PS I understood it was the convention when you KNOW you're going to pass a boat in a short lock pound, is (if you're first to complete the lock) to open the gates but remain in the lock. Once the other boat is ready (gates open and in the lock) you both set off at the same time, this way it gives the best chance to meet in the middle (which is undoubtedly the widest part) and without needing to accelerate, then decelerate, then wait at this point (more than might be necessary to adjust for slight variation in boat speeds).

[Keeping Up]

until the shear pin......shears...

 

 

The only time I've ever been in a truly dangerous situation, was when it did that above a Thames Lock (not on my boat, it's why I won't have one) and nearly sent me over the weir.

 

Hurleston locks are very tight for 2 boats to pass each other but can be done. Also what doesn't help is its often windy there too.

 

PS I understood it was the convention when you KNOW you're going to pass a boat in a short lock pound, is (if you're first to complete the lock) to open the gates but remain in the lock. Once the other boat is ready (gates open and in the lock) you both set off at the same time, this way it gives the best chance to meet in the middle (which is undoubtedly the widest part) and without needing to accelerate, then decelerate, then wait at this point (more than might be necessary to adjust for slight variation in boat speeds).

 

That can result in your bows meeting in the middle with the sterns of both boats still in the lock. That is a difficult position to get out from.

 

Have you ever tried that? I have found that even though the stern is hard over against the side of the lock, the torque from the rudder will still steer the bow across. Clearly, you haven't got as much movement as in clear water, it is still useful to know getting a 70' boat down the Lapworth flight

 

It doesn't work if your boat has parallel sides right to the start of a square stern (see Calcutt) or a semi-circular one (see Anglo-Welsh) but works OK if you have an elliptical stern (see most trad boats) or semi-elliptical one (see good cruiser sterns such as ours and apparently yours)

[Paul C]

That can result in your bows meeting in the middle with the sterns of both boats still in the lock. That is a difficult position to get out from.

 

IMHO not at Hurleston - there's enough space to get out the lock and start to get out the way of the other boat. Basically, whoever built the locks got it right.

[Keeping Up]

IMHO not at Hurleston - there's enough space to get out the lock and start to get out the way of the other boat. Basically, whoever built the locks got it right.

 

You're probably right, I can't quite remember. Clearly it can't have been the same person who designed :Lapworth.

[Radiomariner]

As I recall the Llangollen actually has a flow, with a wier at the top and a sluice at the bottom of each lock. Inexperienced boaters going down often find themselves unexpectedly pushed onto the starboard bank just as they leave the lock. If a boat is coming up in the other direction it is usually best to stay in that position against the bank until boats have passed each other. If you try and correct the direction of the boat as the bow passes the sluice, the stern will go towards the bank as it passes the sluice and the boat (going down) can end up across the pound. Lady boater going down would have been aware that she was not quite in control of her boat would have been anxiously irate to get into the next lock and in control again. Boater going up perhaps should recognise the problem and take his time to see exactly what is happening with other boat and manoeuvre out of lock in a fashion as others have suggested ignoring irate and confusing instructions from other boat. Concentrate on avoiding boat to boat contact and be prepared for oncoming boat to end up across your bows. If other boat does end up across the cut the steerer will most certainly blame you because you were too slow! This in in part true,( a bit of speed on the boat makes steering past the sluice easier) but would have been avoided if she had better control of her boat, or stayed in the lock until you were ready to exit and both boats could have passed each other at a speed suitable to counteract the effects of the cross flows caused by wier and sluice.

 

Edited to add: - It's a long time since I've been on the Llangollen and my memory is that at that end, all the weirs are on the port side when going down. However if I am wrong the same applies, vice versa, only in which case it may be easier for boats to pass starboard to starboard under OP's circumstances.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Radiomariner

[SteveS]

Paul C is correct at Hurleston. Sit in the lock and wait. Both boats move gently forwards. I let the passing of the other boat suck my bow off the bank to line up on the lock I'm entering. If it's windy I will hold the boat with rope against the side. There are no weirs that affect you at Hurleston most of the water goes into the reservoir before the top lock. The side wash on the rest of the Llangollen can be a 'B'!

 

Slight deviation but similar topic; I have been told it is possible to swap four 70 footers (two up two down) in a staircase. I can't see it personally but has any one seen it happen?

 

Steve

[Iain_S]

Slight deviation but similar topic; I have been told it is possible to swap four 70 footers (two up two down) in a staircase. I can't see it personally but has any one seen it happen?

 

Three is possible, but with four, there's no place to go

 

Iain

[Guest]

Slight deviation but similar topic; I have been told it is possible to swap four 70 footers (two up two down) in a staircase. I can't see it personally but has any one seen it happen?

 

Steve

 

I've done it I'm sure on the Bingley Five rise (obviously not with 70ft) but it was I'm pretty sure only three boats - we were going down and two were coming up.

 

One entered the chamber we were in beside us, the other boat moved over we took their space, the boat that had gone into our chamber moved across behind us and the other boat moved in beside it.

 

Of course it was under the guidance of the lock keepers.

[Keeping Up]

On a two-rise staircase you can only swap three 70-footers. But with a five rise you can swap more. IIRC we had 7 in Northgate at Chester once.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Keeping Up

[Paul C]

On a two-rise staircase you can only swap three 70-footers. But with a five rise you can swap more. IIRC we had 7 in Northgate at Chester once.

 

Northgate is a 3 chamber broad staircase. If you really had 7 boats in it, then two (or more) must have had their combined length less than 70', ie they fitted lengthways together.

 

Its possible in a broad staircase for 2 narrow boats per chamber in one direction to pass another in the other direction, ie assuming no lengthways combining, a 3 chamber could at any time accommodate 5 max, or 6 max if going same direction.

 

A shuffle would be required every time the intermediate lock gates were opened and boats moved from chamber to chamber, if boats needed to pass each other.

 

If one or more of the boats are short, its possible to do it with both chambers 'full' widthways, so long as there's enough space for it to use the extra space available once the gates are opened, to create a space for the other to pass.

[Keeping Up]

Northgate is a 3 chamber broad staircase. If you really had 7 boats in it, then two (or more) must have had their combined length less than 70', ie they fitted lengthways together.

 

Its possible in a broad staircase for 2 narrow boats per chamber in one direction to pass another in the other direction, ie assuming no lengthways combining, a 3 chamber could at any time accommodate 5 max, or 6 max if going same direction.

 

A shuffle would be required every time the intermediate lock gates were opened and boats moved from chamber to chamber, if boats needed to pass each other.

 

If one or more of the boats are short, its possible to do it with both chambers 'full' widthways, so long as there's enough space for it to use the extra space available once the gates are opened, to create a space for the other to pass.

 

You are quite right of course. Upon reflection (and re-reading my old log book) I see that in fact although we DID have 7 boats, which was why it stuck in my mind. In fact only two of them were full length and they weren't in the same chamber together. Of the smaller boats, 3 were able to fit in the same chamber at once.

[SteveS]

Once the gates are open then I would have thought that so long as three boats together didn't exceed 144 ft then a four way swap was quite easy. The 4x 70 ft always eluded my imagination.

[Paul C]

Has anyone passed a boat in the other direction in Northgate staircase? Its very much underused, being near the end of the canal, and there being not much of an incentive to go that far up it (yes there's the boat museum, but the wirral line is not that popular a stretch).

 

Bunbury is far more used and quite often, boats pass in it.

[Keeping Up]

Has anyone passed a boat in the other direction in Northgate staircase? Its very much underused, being near the end of the canal, and there being not much of an incentive to go that far up it (yes there's the boat museum, but the wirral line is not that popular a stretch).

 

Bunbury is far more used and quite often, boats pass in it.

 

 

Yes, in the example I mentioned above the smallest 3 were coming down in the same chamber together while we and the 3 other longer boats were all heading upwards.

[nb Innisfree]

Of course when the time comes to put all these tips into practice it all turns to nasty smelly rat shit.

[RLWP]

Not so. We have passed two other boats in Bascote staircase. The look on the steerer's face directly in front of Tawny was a picture!

 

Richard

[ditchcrawler]

Has anyone passed a boat in the other direction in Northgate staircase? Its very much underused, being near the end of the canal, and there being not much of an incentive to go that far up it (yes there's the boat museum, but the wirral line is not that popular a stretch).

 

Bunbury is far more used and quite often, boats pass in it.

I have done a 3 there.

[Paul C]

Apparently its nickname is "The Bunbury Shuffle". Bunbury is close to us so we've traversed it probably 20-30 times. Done all sorts of variations of numbers of boats and crew. Its a very nicely maintained lock.

[TNC]

Having done this umpteen times at Bascote, Northgate and on the eastern side on the L&L, it was refreshing to go to Ireland where it would not be possible, as being good Europeans, do staircases the French way!

[GraemeE]

Well, just returned from this year's annual trip (Anderton to Middlewich, to Barbridge to Tyrley and back again), and the advice provided at the start of this conversation was spot on thanks. There were many occasions where I needed to move away from the left hand bank after waiting for the "crew" to sort out the locks (which seemed to be always set against us), and the breeze wanted to pin me against the canal side, but this reversing to move the back of the boat out worked a treat. Thanks to everyone that responded.

[Ark Right]

That is after all why you carry a boat pole.

Thought it was there in case I ran out of logs. Bow thruster does me fine

A