Fuel Polishing Kit

[matty40s]

 

This engine was running on used engine oil, and used a large filter (near the tank on the back wall), a heating jacket (on the fuel filter), and a high pressure pump on the end of the engine.

 

Apparently it runs fine, so far no problems. They have noticed that the exhaust smell is slightly different, and the sound is a little softer.

I am pretty sure CLYDE owned by Brian(ex RN owner/director?) runs on used engine oil, chip fat and other stuff.

He has been cruising around for 5 years that I know of with his triple filter system to a RN and as far as I know has had no problems.

oh, and he has painted it too and it looks fab.

[n.b.Goldie]

I am pretty sure CLYDE owned by Brian(ex RN owner/director?) runs on used engine oil, chip fat and other stuff.

He has been cruising around for 5 years that I know of with his triple filter system to a RN and as far as I know has had no problems.

oh, and he has painted it too and it looks fab.

 

I half remember an article in one of the waterways magazines about 'the boat that uses old engine oil as fuel' and there was mention of the type of injector pump in that modern pumps are not suitable for this type of fuel. IIRC the article said the RN has something called a 'jabber' pump although I might be wrong about this and I have no idea what a 'jabber' pump might look like.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[waterworks]

I am pretty sure CLYDE owned by Brian(ex RN owner/director?) runs on used engine oil, chip fat and other stuff.

He has been cruising around for 5 years that I know of with his triple filter system to a RN and as far as I know has had no problems.

oh, and he has painted it too and it looks fab.

 

you have to have long term proof that there has been no increased engine wear or damage, and a calculation of the cost of high spec filters ( sub 10 micron )compared to the cost of clean fuel. Naturally waste motor oil is as filthy dirty fuel as you can get.

 

unless your running a clapped out BMC thats due for rebuild, you would want to know for sure that your not gambling free fuel against very expensive new piston and liner sets on a vintage engine, and a top end rebuild in a couple of years time.

[matty40s]

you have to have long term proof that there has been no increased engine wear or damage, and a calculation of the cost of high spec filters ( sub 10 micron )compared to the cost of clean fuel. Naturally waste motor oil is as filthy dirty fuel as you can get.

 

unless your running a clapped out BMC thats due for rebuild, you would want to know for sure that your not gambling free fuel against very expensive new piston and liner sets on a vintage engine, and a top end rebuild in a couple of years time.

I believe that was Brians intent with his extended cruise, the engine was checked annually by RN engineers for the first couple or three years as I recollect to assess the impact. The initial cost of the filter system was around £7-800.

[ditchcrawler]

I am pretty sure CLYDE owned by Brian(ex RN owner/director?) runs on used engine oil, chip fat and other stuff.

He has been cruising around for 5 years that I know of with his triple filter system to a RN and as far as I know has had no problems.

oh, and he has painted it too and it looks fab.

Kyle actually but I knew who you meant. It doesn't sound too bad does it.

[Flyboy]

All the talk of contaminated diesel these days made me think about a diagram I once saw (poss. ASAP supplies) for a fuel polishing kit. From memory it used a couple of filters from their range plus an electric fuel pump; not exactly rocket science. I think it connected to the tank drain and returned via the normal return line, but could be used via a pickup pipe through the filler.

I'll get to the point now; has anybody ever made one or similar and did it work?

Cheers.

 

Has anyone tried one of these. I saw a demo at Simtech Marine today and was most impressive. A cup full of diesel bug/water was cleaned in 10 seconds, you could see it through transparent pipes on a rig. The unit fits between the tank & primary filter. The fuel is swirled in the unit and the water & bug crud is removed by baffles & sinks to the bottom where it is drained via a tap. It is much more than an aglomerater/filter.

 

http://www.mlsltd.net/info.html

[Guest]

Has anyone tried one of these. I saw a demo at Simtech Marine today and was most impressive. A cup full of diesel bug/water was cleaned in 10 seconds, you could see it through transparent pipes on a rig. The unit fits between the tank & primary filter. The fuel is swirled in the unit and the water & bug crud is removed by baffles & sinks to the bottom where it is drained via a tap. It is much more than an aglomerater/filter.

 

http://www.mlsltd.net/info.html

That is interesting. I believe it is similar to the heavy duty oil filters employed on some foreign truck engines and possibly ships, which lengthens the life of the engine lube oil.

[Bobbybass]

Surely if you're just cleaning your own fuel, with a built-in system, a small pump will be absolutely fine?

 

Tim

We made a 'rig' last year...when my neighbour had the problem.

 

We used a cheap 'drill' powered pump..which was very quick...and bought some sock shaped filters from Ebay.

They look like.... long..socks..and come in all filter sizes..

Pumped it into some 25 litre carriers...started with a large size 'sock' filter... cable tied to the end of the hose pipe......then back and forth between carrier and plastic dustbin..until it was clear..using gradually diminishing filter sizes...down to about 10 microns in the end...

Occasionally took the filters off and squeezed the gunk into a large plastic container..and took it to the local council for disposal..

 

Treated the carriers with marine 16 biocide..and then back into the tank...

 

Washed the filters in bio washing power at the end...

 

Filters : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3X28-50-10-1-MICRON-FILTER-BAGS-USED-COOKING-OIL-VEG-OIL-BIO-DIESEL-/170962977618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27ce300352

 

The bug didn't come back..and the tank is still nice and clear..

Cost of bits...was about £20...

Edited December 31, 2012 by Bobbybass

[Guest]

We made a 'rig' last year...when my neighbour had the problem.

 

We used a cheap 'drill' powered pump..which was very quick...and bought some sock shaped filters from Ebay.

They look like.... long..socks..and come in all filter sizes..

Pumped it into some 25 litre carriers...started with a large size 'sock' filter... cable tied to the end of the hose pipe......then back and forth between carrier and plastic dustbin..until it was clear..using gradually diminishing filter sizes...down to about 10 microns in the end...

Occasionally took the filters off and squeezed the gunk into a large plastic container..and took it to the local council for disposal..

 

Treated the carriers with marine 16 biocide..and then back into the tank...

 

Washed the filters in bio washing power at the end...

 

Filters : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3X28-50-10-1-MICRON-FILTER-BAGS-USED-COOKING-OIL-VEG-OIL-BIO-DIESEL-/170962977618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27ce300352

 

The bug didn't come back..and the tank is still nice and clear..

Cost of bits...was about £20...

Nice work That is the sort of Dunkirk spirit that is missing today

Those drill pumps are really useful for lots of jobs.

Being made in Lancashire, it goes without saying that the filters will be superb.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Guest

[ditchcrawler]

Has anyone tried one of these. I saw a demo at Simtech Marine today and was most impressive. A cup full of diesel bug/water was cleaned in 10 seconds, you could see it through transparent pipes on a rig. The unit fits between the tank & primary filter. The fuel is swirled in the unit and the water & bug crud is removed by baffles & sinks to the bottom where it is drained via a tap. It is much more than an aglomerater/filter.

 

http://www.mlsltd.net/info.html

I wonder what speed the diesel has to flow at to work.

[steamraiser2]

Waste engine oil, centrifuged & polished, mixed with an appropriate amount of diesel and an odourant ,if required, has been used as a fuel in the right circumstances for years. Waste oil alone is not suitable. Lister JP's will run quite happily on black diesel especially in generator applications, especially as they were not designed to run on modern diesel ,as we know it, in the first place. Elsewhere in this thread there is the description of the RN that runs without problems. I used to run a brace of generators powered by Perkins P6s that even had preheaters to enable warming of the fuel oil. They would run 24/7 and did so for years without complaint. As did a brace of V8 driving a drilling rig. We used to use Castrol R40 as an odourant otherwise the exhaust could be a little ripe. A local company used to centrifuge waste oil from garages and sell it on as heating oil.We used to buy it in by the tanker load, cut with gas oil and use in most of our generators. Saved the company a fortune.

 

Having carried out routine overhauls of black dieseled engines bore wear was never any more than similar diesel fuelled engines although coke in manifolds was usually worse. Hardly worth bothering in a narrowboat though as the consumption is not high enough.

[Guest]

Waste engine oil, centrifuged & polished, mixed with an appropriate amount of diesel and an odourant ,if required, has been used as a fuel in the right circumstances for years. Waste oil alone is not suitable. Lister JP's will run quite happily on black diesel especially in generator applications, especially as they were not designed to run on modern diesel ,as we know it, in the first place. Elsewhere in this thread there is the description of the RN that runs without problems. I used to run a brace of generators powered by Perkins P6s that even had preheaters to enable warming of the fuel oil. They would run 24/7 and did so for years without complaint. As did a brace of V8 driving a drilling rig. We used to use Castrol R40 as an odourant otherwise the exhaust could be a little ripe. A local company used to centrifuge waste oil from garages and sell it on as heating oil.We used to buy it in by the tanker load, cut with gas oil and use in most of our generators. Saved the company a fortune.

 

Having carried out routine overhauls of black dieseled engines bore wear was never any more than similar diesel fuelled engines although coke in manifolds was usually worse. Hardly worth bothering in a narrowboat though as the consumption is not high enough.

I knew of a car breakers yard that were using a heating system fired by waste oil in the mid 1980's without problem, though have no experience of running diesel engines on it. I wonder if the metals used makes a difference, perhaps similar to valve seats for unleaded fuel? As I stated earlier, a geezer I met was running his aged Peugeuot on black diesel without even polishing it. He just bunged it in the diesel, thinking it didn't matter as the car was so old. He claimed it had run like that for ages! Wouldn't risk it in my Vetus though! I have heard that diesels run nicely on waste ATF too.

[steamraiser2]

To make you cringe even further. The little BP oil well at Kimmeridge in Dorset used to have a tanker loading pump powered by a Lister HA2. The crude oil produced there was thin and green and looked remarkably like Duckhams engine oil. On more than one occasion the little Lister had it's fuel tank filled with oil straight out of the ground. It would go like the clappers!

[Guest]

To make you cringe even further. The little BP oil well at Kimmeridge in Dorset used to have a tanker loading pump powered by a Lister HA2. The crude oil produced there was thin and green and looked remarkably like Duckhams engine oil. On more than one occasion the little Lister had it's fuel tank filled with oil straight out of the ground. It would go like the clappers!

Brilliant! Did it live a long life?

[steamraiser2]

Brilliant! Did it live a long life?

 

It still lives! Powers a narrowboat these days, polished to within an inch of it's life

[Arthur Brown]

I do remember a youtube vid of someone trying and failing to use old engine oil to fuel his diesel volvo estate. He had massive starting problems and some running problems too. Lots will depend on the type of oil and the engine.

 

Now I could see waste oil being useful for steam boats.

 

Edited December 31, 2012 by Arthur Brown

[ditchcrawler]

I do remember a youtube vid of someone trying and failing to use old engine oil to fuel his diesel volvo estate. He had massive starting problems and some running problems too. Lots will depend on the type of oil and the engine.

 

Now I could see waste oil being useful for steam boats.

 

I know one steam boat owner who happily takes all the waste oil his friends can supply.

[waterworks]

as you may know if your into this, in the U.S using waste motor oil is being tried in Lister CS engined offgrid generators, i haven't seen any reports that any engine has gone over 1200 hours on straight WMO without being seriously knackered, and the rebuild cost wiped out the fuel saving.

 

(I am not on either side on this, so don't get your panties in a bunch.) I have access to a lifetimes free supply of the stuff, and i'm looking into using it if possible. It may not be.

 

You can distill it, into a thin clean ( ish ) oil though, that may be the way forward.

 

Just cause theres a single RN running on it is not really proof of anything.

[steamraiser2]

There is a world of difference between WMO and black diesel. You often hear of diesels being run on "chip fat" while in truth no one does. They do run them on biodiesel made from chip fat though. Converting WMO into a useable fuel oil is a black art and is not the same process as biofuel.It works but is not that cheap and, unless you are gulping up lots of diesel, not cost effective in a narrowboat application.

[rrt2]

In this weather why not pump or drain out the bottom of the diesel tank into a container, leave outside and wait for the water to freeze then pour off the diesel.

[matty40s]

Kyle actually but I knew who you meant. It doesn't sound too bad does it.

Ah, yes, Kyle, memory not fully working between Christmas and new year due to too much lubricant!!

 

as you may know if your into this, in the U.S using waste motor oil is being tried in Lister CS engined offgrid generators, i haven't seen any reports that any engine has gone over 1200 hours on straight WMO without being seriously knackered, and the rebuild cost wiped out the fuel saving.

(I am not on either side on this, so don't get your panties in a bunch.) I have access to a lifetimes free supply of the stuff, and i'm looking into using it if possible. It may not be.

You can distill it, into a thin clean ( ish ) oil though, that may be the way forward.

Just cause theres a single RN running on it is not really proof of anything.

 

Well there's two RN's featured on this thread alone and Brians has now gone for over 5 years, all over the network - far more than your 1200 hours.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

As the crud from water, rust and bug, sits in the bottom of the tank and a good fuel supply pipe should be at least 2 inches off the bottom. 1: A stiff small bore pipe can be used to with a vacuum cleaner to clear the bottom of the tank. 2: In a sea way or in rough river conditions any crud will be stirred up and you do not want blocked filters in those conditions. On the Mersey with wind over tide the boat was thrown up and down by a metre and it weighed 40 ton. I was glad I had used the vacuum cleaner to check the bottom of the tank.

[Flyboy]

I wonder what speed the diesel has to flow at to work.

 

I had a chat with Simtech again today and raised the question of flow rate. The filter unit does not rely on a high flow rate, just a continual movement through the device. The normal diesel return (leak off) is sufficient. There are no moving parts in the device, just a clever arrangement of baffles & swirl.

 

There has been a lot of interest from hire firms.

[waterworks]

There is a world of difference between WMO and black diesel. You often hear of diesels being run on "chip fat" while in truth no one does. They do run them on biodiesel made from chip fat though. Converting WMO into a useable fuel oil is a black art and is not the same process as biofuel.It works but is not that cheap and, unless you are gulping up lots of diesel, not cost effective in a narrowboat application.

 

running on straight vegtable oil is well proven, pre heated oil at 80 deg C, and starting and shut down and purging the fuel system on Diesel. used chip fat is unfortunatly not available for free anymore, the chippy gets 25 p a litre on their used oil. Though at that price it's still third the cost of pump Diesel ( without the tax, which of course we would immediatly volunteer to pay HMRC )

 

The Lister HA in my next boat i'm fitting out this year will be run on recycled veg oil, unless waste engine oil becomes viable.

Edited January 2, 2013 by waterworks

[ditchcrawler]

Looking for something else I came across this

 

http://www.wasp-pfs.com/explore/fuel-polishing-systems/overview