How much?!!!

[mrsmelly]

Hi

 

Perhaps if you showed some genuine interest in the forum rather than 25 posts in 5 years your company would already be reaping the benefits. Plenty of other business people are on the forum and do not push their products but get custom as they become well known.

 

Tim

[howardang]

P.S. for about twice that amount you could probably buy one of your own.....

 

Or try ebay for some cheaper hires perhaps?

The other alternative is shared ownership. There are a number of boats available for within a smidgeon of what you are prepared to pay for a couple of weeks and that would be for at least three weeks each year.In fact there are some boats around that are cheaper than your budget figure.

 

Look at these presently for sale as an indication.

 

http://www.boatshare.co.uk/forsale/index.htm

 

Howard

[Starcoaster]

Have a look at Saissons, they only have two boats and both are small at around 40ft and tugs too- but both can accomodate four people in various combinations.

The 2012 high season prices are showing as £900 a week/ mid season £750 a week and I can't imagine much difference in the 2013 prices.

They might do you a discount for two weeks?

 

http://saisons.co.uk/index.html

 

I haven't hired from them but I know them pretty well as my moorings landlords!

Edited December 12, 2012 by Starcoaster

[fudd]

I don't think I would. £1400 a week in high season sounds about right to me

 

Richard

That's what I paid for six nights about six years ago. I could have gone all inclusive to Barcelona with my girls for the same money. Glad I didn't though because I got 'the bug'. Now we have our own boat.

[I want my own narrowboat]

Hi folks!

 

Thanks for all your comments.

 

My favorite one was the Tesco clubcard way of paying...

 

I live in Harrogate which is famous as the only UK postcode not to have a Tesco supermarket in the town!

 

Our schools don't let the kids have time off - very strict about it now.

 

It looks like narrowboating has become something only the wealthy can afford now - and I'm not wealthy!

 

Camping again then.

 

Cheers - Mark.

[mrsmelly]

Hi folks!

 

Thanks for all your comments.

 

My favorite one was the Tesco clubcard way of paying...

 

I live in Harrogate which is famous as the only UK postcode not to have a Tesco supermarket in the town!

 

Our schools don't let the kids have time off - very strict about it now.

 

It looks like narrowboating has become something only the wealthy can afford now - and I'm not wealthy!

 

Camping again then.

 

Cheers - Mark.

 

 

Hi

 

Arraget is too posh for a Tescos, how lucky you are they are crap shops anyway, probably why they are going bust in the states. As for schools not letting YOUR kids have time off. I always informed the schools my kids went to when they were taking their jolidays. Finances and work comitments came first as my life was not going to be run by the few hours a year they decide to call school term time. My kids all do the same with their kids at their schools and go on holiday when it is financialy and work wise viable. My daughter who lives in Bristol did have a letter sent to her requesting her attendance at the school which she duly did and explained very politely to the head why her children would be missing a few lessons, she has not had a problem since. As a bye the way All my kids did very well at school and achieved their particular aims wether that was a uni degree or otherwise. Go on holiday when the price is right, especialy in these financialy constrained times

 

Tim

[RichardH]

Hi folks!

 

Thanks for all your comments.

 

My favorite one was the Tesco clubcard way of paying...

 

I live in Harrogate which is famous as the only UK postcode not to have a Tesco supermarket in the town!

 

Our schools don't let the kids have time off - very strict about it now.

 

It looks like narrowboating has become something only the wealthy can afford now - and I'm not wealthy!

 

Camping again then.

 

Cheers - Mark.

 

Unfortunately that is the way it is going because quite simply, the costs of operating a hire boat business drive the prices. When you factor in fixed costs, booking agents fees, sponsor fees and fuel (if included) there isn't a huge slice of profit for the operator.

 

There are varying prices out there though and it is worth shopping around as many will do a deal for a 2 weeker.

 

Taking ourselves (and I appreciate it isn't where you want so doesn't count as a plug I hope) would be around £2250 on a 5 star standard 4 berther with all fixed berths. It is also worth checking what extras have to be paid.

 

In an ideal world (as a parent of 2 school children) I would love to have a fixed price for each week regardless of time of year but unless the entire holiday industry adopted it, it would never happen - all we would be doing is not making any profit and giving a few lucky ones a great cheap holiday.

 

Try our friends at Chas Hardern, they are lovely with great boats.

[dor]

There is a reason why boats all cost much the same to hire. I know someone who runs a hire fleet and they don't make these rates up out of thin air - there is a good reason they are what they are.

 

As in the case of the London boat renter, if someone is seriously bucking the trend in terms of rates it does suggest that it deserves closer examination.

[Canarrowboat TBD]

Also used Tesco Clubcard points http://www.ukboathir...co/default.aspx - I've used it twice, when I couldn't swallow the full price.

 

Or how about a 12th share in joined ownership - for similar money, it could give you 4 weeks to use in the year ?

 

Good Luck

Mark

[Paul C]

There is a reason why boats all cost much the same to hire. I know someone who runs a hire fleet and they don't make these rates up out of thin air - there is a good reason they are what they are.

 

As in the case of the London boat renter, if someone is seriously bucking the trend in terms of rates it does suggest that it deserves closer examination.

 

They don't all cost the same though. Last year and previous times when I've looked, I've seen wide variations on price (admittedly, published website/brochure prices). And I've noticed that the hire firms which price keenly, tend to have more boats on hire through the season than those whose prices are high.

[kevinl]

You could explain it by way of; they all operate in the same market so similar fixed costs, licences, insurance, maintainance etc, but it may be like the gas and electric companies, one blinks first and puts up their prices then the rest price match to them. If your competitors go up by 10% why would you only put your prices up by 5%?

I used to work the basis that a holiday on the broads or narrowboat was about 50% more than a nice static caravan in Devon or Wales so if I had some money it was a boat holiday, times not so good and we went in a caravan. Currently prices for a week on the sort of caravan we used to hire is £600 per week (in the school hoildays) so £900 for a boat would be what I'd expect to pay to hire a boat of the type we used to. I've looked at Hoseasons and like for like boat holiday prices are now double the caravan prices. So in real terms a boating holiday has gone up over the rate of a comparible, if I checked back the cost of a narrowboat holiday against 2 weeks on the Costa somewhere I suspect the difference would be greater.

The best suggestion I've seen was take a look at a share in a boat, they seem (if you have the initial investment) much the best deal.

[RLWP]

It is worth remembering that once you have hired your boat, and paid your food costs - that's usually it

 

Any other holiday, you add on extra petrol, admission to attractions, and so on. (plus 'are we there yet...')

 

Richard

[mayalld]

Why do I sense all is not right here?

 

Or blunter - Sue is your boat properly licensed and insured for hire?

 

You live in Sheffield - who does the required handover.

 

Sorry to press but this kind of stuff is important.

 

I was going to ask the exact same question, because I can't see that there is an even remotely viable business at those prices.

 

First let us look at fixed costs;

 

Licence £1,837

Mooring £2,028

Insurance £400 [a guess that it is going to be more than a private boat]

RCR £210

Maintenance £1,000 [another guess, allowing for blacking, minimal servicing to cover the boat barely being used.

Depreciation £4,000

Marketing £200

 

That's £9,700 that you have to cover.

 

Variable costs which you incur only when the boat is actually in use (per week)

Fuel £80

Cleaning, Laundy, Changeover etc £80

Pump Out £15

Additional maintenance £50

 

Total £225

So, we deduct £225 from each weeks hire fee to determine the potential margin for that week

 

Then we consider potential occupancy rates.

 

I have estimated that Occupancy in January/February/November/December will be 10% (and as you have no bookings from now to the end of March that may be optimistic). I've set occupancy at 40% for February half term at 20% and for the two peak weeks in December at 50% (again optimistic based on your current booking status)

 

March/October are 24% occupancy, except that Easter is 70% and October half term is 70%

 

The rest of the summer is 70%

 

Over the course of the year, that would mean an occupancy of around 46% (24 weeks), which is quite optimistic given the two bookings you currently have.

 

On that basis, assuming that unused weeks attract zero cost, your gross margin of income over variable costs is around £12.5k, which barely covers your fixed costs.

 

At a more pessimistic 50% summer occupancy, 25% occupancy in March and October and no use in the winter, you would be losing money.

 

Either you are a philanthropist, or this is your private boat that you are hiring out.

[Alanji]

May I ask what is wrong with hiring out your own boat - provided you have the necessary insurance and license of course.

Not that I would ever consider letting a stranger loose with my boat (which I have not quite got yet )

[RLWP]

May I ask what is wrong with hiring out your own boat - provided you have the necessary insurance and license of course.

Not that I would ever consider letting a stranger loose with my boat (which I have not quite got yet )

 

The bit in red

 

Try calling CaRT to find out what is involved in getting the correct license and you'll find out

 

Richard

[Guest]

The bit in red

 

Try calling CaRT to find out what is involved in getting the correct license and you'll find out

 

Richard

 

Useful linky for those thinking about it -

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/723.pdf

 

Importaqnt paragraph -

 

If you let your boat out for hire without a leisure business licence, you risk enforcement action that could result in the boat being removed from the waterway.

 

ed to add more -

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/boating-businesses/starting-a-new-boating-business/self-drive-hire

Edited December 14, 2012 by The Dog House

[mayalld]

May I ask what is wrong with hiring out your own boat - provided you have the necessary insurance and license of course.

Not that I would ever consider letting a stranger loose with my boat (which I have not quite got yet )

 

The bit about having the correct insurance an licence.

 

Hiring out your own boat is something that many people consider as an option to defray some of the costs of ownership.

 

The problem is that once you've factored in the extra expense of licence insurance, BSC, wear and tear, you would have to have the boat out on hire most of the year (particularly the weeks when you actually want to use it) just to recover those costs before it starts paying for itself.

 

As that wasn't in the plan, it would seem that most people chosing this route decide to skip all the extra expenditure, and hire the boat out without the correct licences etc

[RichardH]

I was going to ask the exact same question, because I can't see that there is an even remotely viable business at those prices.

 

First let us look at fixed costs;

 

Licence £1,837

Mooring £2,028

Insurance £400 [a guess that it is going to be more than a private boat]

RCR £210

Maintenance £1,000 [another guess, allowing for blacking, minimal servicing to cover the boat barely being used.

Depreciation £4,000

Marketing £200

 

That's £9,700 that you have to cover.

 

Variable costs which you incur only when the boat is actually in use (per week)

Fuel £80

Cleaning, Laundy, Changeover etc £80

Pump Out £15

Additional maintenance £50

 

Total £225

So, we deduct £225 from each weeks hire fee to determine the potential margin for that week

 

Then we consider potential occupancy rates.

 

I have estimated that Occupancy in January/February/November/December will be 10% (and as you have no bookings from now to the end of March that may be optimistic). I've set occupancy at 40% for February half term at 20% and for the two peak weeks in December at 50% (again optimistic based on your current booking status)

 

March/October are 24% occupancy, except that Easter is 70% and October half term is 70%

 

The rest of the summer is 70%

 

Over the course of the year, that would mean an occupancy of around 46% (24 weeks), which is quite optimistic given the two bookings you currently have.

 

On that basis, assuming that unused weeks attract zero cost, your gross margin of income over variable costs is around £12.5k, which barely covers your fixed costs.

 

At a more pessimistic 50% summer occupancy, 25% occupancy in March and October and no use in the winter, you would be losing money.

 

Either you are a philanthropist, or this is your private boat that you are hiring out.

 

I have been tempted on so many occasions when someone is batting on about how we are ripping off the holidaymakers to details the costs in the way Dave has (and very accurate they are too)

 

Add to this sponsor payments (which is how many hire firms are structured) and booking agents fees and trust me we don't spend all winter counting the cash.

 

Would anyone like to buy a hire boat business.......?

[Guest]

Would anyone like to buy a hire boat business.......?

 

Frankly no -

 

As long as there are folk willing to take the mick renting out their own boats to naive folk and take shortcuts with proper licensing and insurance, small firms like yours in particular are being unfairly undercut.

 

We often get certain members popping up on here spouting 'don't worry about such trivial matters it will be fine ignore the naysayers' - what they don't appreciate is the long term consequences of such actions such as putting small business at an unfair dis-advantage.

[Albion]

I have been tempted on so many occasions when someone is batting on about how we are ripping off the holidaymakers to details the costs in the way Dave has (and very accurate they are too)

 

Add to this sponsor payments (which is how many hire firms are structured) and booking agents fees and trust me we don't spend all winter counting the cash.

 

Would anyone like to buy a hire boat business.......?

Spot on Richard. I've always wondered, when you look at the figures, how anyone can make a living out of hiring boats (particularly in a small fleet).

Roger

[comfortably numb]

If you only want to go boating every few years then hiring is really the only way to go. But if you like it enough to want a few weeks every year then shared ownership is definately worth considering. You get to own a 12th of a boat and get 4 weeks cruising every year (usually 2 weeks in high and 2 weeks in low season) or sometimes you can get a half share which gives you 2 weeks a year.

 

After 20+ years of hiring nearly every year, we went along this route in 2009, and our 4 weeks costs us around £1,100 per annum (including having it looked after by a management company). If you go for an older boat you can pick up a share for around £2-3k and at that age they hardly depreciate although the annual running costs might be a bit more.

 

We are selling our share now because we are buying our own boat, and we're selling it for virtually what we paid for it 3 years ago. So we've in effect had at least 3 weeks boating holidays every year for well under £400 a week.

 

Here's a selection of boats you may be interested in looking at that are looked after by the company we're with (who are excellent).

 

 

http://www.bcbm.co.uk/shares/narrowboat_shares_for_sale.asp

 

 

Neil

[mayalld]

I have been tempted on so many occasions when someone is batting on about how we are ripping off the holidaymakers to details the costs in the way Dave has (and very accurate they are too)

 

Add to this sponsor payments (which is how many hire firms are structured) and booking agents fees and trust me we don't spend all winter counting the cash.

 

Would anyone like to buy a hire boat business.......?

 

Not a hope in hell!

 

Who'd be in a game of such fragile margins where the market is undercut by people who can charge less than you because they choose to ignore the niceties of actually operting legally.

[bigste]

Have a look at http://www.bettisfieldboats.com/ The dearest week is 750 and I bet they discount the second week.