ccers-CRT meeting.

[mrsmelly]

Tim

No the complete opposite CaRT recognise the value that CCers bring to the system both in the money they spend and the vital eyes and ears during the winter months. Peter McDonald is writing a summary of the meeting and as soon as that is available I know Jenlyn will post it one here. The idea was more to dicuss any changes that CaRT might bring in would effect CCers as they would non ccers. It was also a chance to ensure that genuine ccers do not become victimsed as the result of Non Compliant CCers.

 

 

Thanks John for the info.

 

Tim

 

I'm a CCer & I was blissfully unaware of any problems or prejudice until I started browsing canal forums! It's beautiful out here in the real world, friendly folk, lovely scenery, a tranquil environment. The biggest surprise of all since moving aboard has been the canal politics, that exists online.

 

 

Hi

 

A greenie for a sensible post. I and most of us from time to time seem to forget that we forum users are a tiny minority of boaters. Of the many boating friends I have most of them never log on to the forum or had even heard of the forum until I asked them. Just as many more do not have and are not interested in pCs or the internet. I agree most of it is just online. Also I have always found Bw to be helpful whenever needed.

 

Tim

[bowten]

I'm a CCer & I was blissfully unaware of any problems or prejudice until I started browsing canal forums! It's beautiful out here in the real world, friendly folk, lovely scenery, a tranquil environment. The biggest surprise of all since moving aboard has been the canal politics, that exists online.

Hmmm,I have to agree with this sentiment,however due to the changes recently(BW to CaRT)I think we need to keep one eye on the 'politics',don't yer think?

[cotswoldsman]

I'm a CCer & I was blissfully unaware of any problems or prejudice until I started browsing canal forums! It's beautiful out here in the real world, friendly folk, lovely scenery, a tranquil environment. The biggest surprise of all since moving aboard has been the canal politics, that exists online.

 

You might well be correct but I have to say I have certainly met people with a misunderstanding of what CCers are all about. I guess it all depends how many boaters you speak to on a daily bases but yes it is certainly a hotter topic on the internet than on the towpath, but I put this down to the fact that quite a few people that moan on the internet actually do not spend that much time on the towpath or maybe more likely some people prefer the internet as a medium for moaning

[alan_fincher]

The group of opinions last night were pretty unified. Now just to give a little fact, I tried through ivor Caplan to sort this out 6 weeks ago, I got nowhere. Hence I sought help for a meeting directly with CRT. The reply I got from ivor at the time was basically this, "join one of the organisations so that you can be represented". As yet, I don't wish to be in an organisation, however, my elected council member should still represent me as a boaters representative.

Succinctly put, and spot on IMO.

 

Let's also not forget the "Trustees and Council give green light for mooring rules" announcement that came at the start of much of this debate.

 

If you take that headline at face value, it was a done deal - our elected reps had already rubber-stamped a whole heap of things - but few will have felt included in that process, or that any attempt was made at consultation.

 

Good in my view that we are now gaining an acceptance that some of it remains work in progress, with more input from those who it affects.

[Jerra]

It is my strong belief that the last thing we need to be doing is further building any divides that centre on any categorisations such as CC-er/marina/towpath moorer or residential/non-residential - something I adhered to through my Council election campaign, and presumably why my support spread across a whole range of supporters from all camps. Many of the cc-ers don't ask for, (or want), special treatment either - they just don't want to be margnalised.

 

I couldn't agree more. I feel the boating community whether CCers, CMers, Leisureboaters, hire boaters, share boaters,canoeists or even paddle a bath tub have more to lose by marginalising any group and/or dividing into factions than any would gain by such actions.

[paddy r]

I'm a CCer & I was blissfully unaware of any problems or prejudice until I started browsing canal forums! It's beautiful out here in the real world, friendly folk, lovely scenery, a tranquil environment. The biggest surprise of all since moving aboard has been the canal politics, that exists online.

 

 

Have a greenie

[Pykebird]

So, will anyone be able to attend future meetings or only certain people, and when/where will they be?

[MtB]

As a CCer the only problem I have is when dimwits refer to all CCers as CMers.

 

I do hope you are not referring to me. When I use the term 'CMer' I mean exactly that. The subset of 'Licence holders without a home mooring' who don't comply with the CC guidance. In particular, those who often overstay mooring time limits. These peeps usually cite work/school commitments in the area or health issues as a justification.

 

Not that I'm prejudiced, I hope. I have several friends on the cut who are both CMers and good and kind people. This does not prevent me from recognising the fact they they are CMers. There are quite a few on the Thames too.

 

MtB

[churchward]

 

Yes, of course I do feel kind of uncomfortable with saying anything here, and perhaps it is out of place. However, I actually feel passionately about trying to get things right, and I desperately need to know those speaking on our behalf are doing so fully within the context and constraints of this new organisation, not simply from a standpoint of doing "more of what they have always done", when the world is moving on.

 

Our elected representatives need to convince us that they are doing the job they have put themselves up for.

I agree representatives do need to prove that the votes that put them there were well spent otherwise it will be someone else next time. providing of course enough boaters can get off their backsides and take the voting process seriously.

 

Passion for the subject is great too and best deployed in positive pursuits and answers/solutions to questions and issues.

[jami dodgers]

Just a suggestion.......what about C&RT?

 

1. It's easier to type than other options as you just hold down the caps button for all four keys.

 

2. The & explains exactly what it is, unlike a lower case a which could be nearly anything begining with a.

 

3. It is Canal & Rivers Trust and ignoring the and altogether doesn't make sense.

 

4. It's my suggestion so it must be better than anyone else's ;-))

[Pentargon]

Great bit of sense leaking down right from the original post of this thread.

 

One thing I can't understand though is how to define CC. I bought my boat last Jan and, with it, a marina "mooring" near Buckby Top (£1500pa) which I thought would be necessary or make sense to my needs. I only spent a few weeks IN the marina about mid-year, so I could not justify £1500pa for a rarely used 'home mooring' on my little pinshin. (Got half of it back by a ruse and will be buying an 11m GOLD licence for 2013 with the windfall). I've meandered through the system and now find myself to my great surprise in the Lea, a long way from the 'home mooring', but still so designated and hey that's ok. Pentargon is my "country cottage" and I'm also a "Lone Ranger". SWMBO has a job in the city and can take boats or leave them, (but she is a good and understanding wife!) I'm shortly going into another marina, with my boat being swung up in the air and deposited on terra firma so I can avoid rather than evade licencing while Pentargon gets her bottom scraped. I'm blessed with chronic ME/Fibromyalgia LOL so I hafta take the rest, but as soon as I'm better I'll be out and off to the River Wey or somewhere else to potter about for 2013.

 

During the last ten months I've rubbed noses, drank pints, talked amiable bollox with ALL sorts of boaters, canal staff, volunteers, gongoozlers, CMers, drug dealers, bottom welders, marina owners, hire-operators, walking stick makers, staff of Pollards Fenny and Blakes Berko, musicians at The Grand Junction Arms and "Tony Islander". All of whom I consider part of the "Community of The Longest Friendliest Village in England".

 

I've never ever been asked if I'm CC by anyone. It's only on forums like this that 2C or not 2C comes up over and over again.

 

I'm ever so pleased that certain people went to the meeting mentioned in the OP and made 2C statements on my behalf, if I am indeed a CCer (or not!). And I'm not asking who they represent because for me they represent me. Thanks Jenyln, Alan, Mike, Alison you were all far more useful to me than the Council member supposed to represent ALL boaters and who let himself and the side down by not actually representing anyone except himself on the night.

 

You might wonder how or why I can make such an assertion? Well I'm active on five different forums/fora on farceburk and believe I am 'known' on this The Biggest Canal Forum Of All. I know quite a few boaters by name, having met and spent time with them during my travels. I consider each and every one to be scholars and gentleman and that includes the ladies too. (thanks Lady Muck, Starcoaster, Heidi, Kit et al).

 

Long live co-operative activity on t'cut.

 

We are all one on t'cut and I have never ever been blanked by anyone. Yiz are all the salt of the earth.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Pentargon

[Jerra]

Just a suggestion.......what about C&RT?

What about CRT which is what the Canal and River Trust use. It isn't up to us to decide how an organisation chooses to form an acronym to represent itself.

 

EDIT: to correct daft use of quote code.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jerra

[Rich]

I do hope you are not referring to me.

 

Do you " refer to all CCers as CMers". If so then yes, I am including to you. If not then no, I am not including you. Only you know the answer to that.

[Sir Nibble]

I hope I do not speak out of turn but I should expect CaRT are DELIGHTED to meet a group who don't believe rules don't apply to them and can string a sentence together without the words "unlawful, ultra vires, ethnic cleansing or nazi". I am very pleased that they (CaRT) are engaging constructively and supporting ccing. It would be great if you can collaborate to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Ange]

I'm a CCer & I was blissfully unaware of any problems or prejudice until I started browsing canal forums! It's beautiful out here in the real world, friendly folk, lovely scenery, a tranquil environment. The biggest surprise of all since moving aboard has been the canal politics, that exists online.

 

It was the other way round for us. I was on the forum for just over a year before we moved aboard and started ccing and I must confess that the first summer if anyone asked where our home mooring was (quite a common chit chat line at the side of a lock) I was quite nervous when I said we didn't have one. I've gradually found out that it's fine, in fact most people are envious of our lifestyle.

 

I do suspect that some posters who are aggressive and vocal on here are a little more circumspect face to face

[dmtarry]

I am not a CCer though do think that they have some different needs and problems than some other groups. It may be that simply having a CCer section / forum on this website alongside living afloat would help? At least they would be able to have meaningful discussions between themselves that may not be relevant and or open to comment from non Ccers.

[Lesd]

Well done to all who attended and have started the ball rolling, looking forward to seeing the meeting notes and further comment.

[Graham.m]

I couldn't agree more. I feel the boating community whether CCers, CMers, Leisureboaters, hire boaters, share boaters,canoeists or even paddle a bath tub have more to lose by marginalising any group and/or dividing into factions than any would gain by such actions.

 

Surely there is a difference between marginalizing a group and empowering them by encouraging them to get together, albeit informally, so they can put a coherent point of view.

[Graham.m]

What about CRT which is what the Canal and River Trust use. It isn't up to us to decide how an organisation chooses to form an acronym to represent itself.

 

EDIT: to correct daft use of quote code.

 

mmmm if you do a google search for CRT nothing about the trust appears on the first page, as far as I checked. However if you search for C&RT up comes My link which is probably because the trust has tagged the page C&RT.

[Wild Is The Wind]

So good to hear the meeting was positive and CRT are prepared to listen and work with boaters to resolve problems - it really did appear the new proposals had been rubber stamped by the Trust's board, especially in the IWA article I read. Well done everyone, sorry I couldn't be with you and looking forward to the feedback

[Jeanie920]

And i have say to that all the CCers that i know don't either.

 

 

With all due respect genuine CCs cant know what other boaters are up to because they are not in one place long enough. My partner and I regularly walk the towpaths, and we see the same boats moored up for weeks -even months sometimes. Its usually in rural places where there is road access.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jeanie920

[mayalld]

Do you " refer to all CCers as CMers". If so then yes, I am including to you. If not then no, I am not including you. Only you know the answer to that.

 

I have yet to see ANYBODY refer to all CCers as CMers.

[paddy r]

And i have say to that all the CCers that i know don't either.

 

 

With all due respect genuine CCs cant know what other boaters are up to because they are not in one place long enough. My partner and I regularly walk the towpaths, and we see the same boats moored up for weeks -even months sometimes. Its usually in rural places where there is road access.

 

 

 

Sorry but this is 2012 going on 13 i know where most of my CCing mates are .Most have f/book, here and blogs,phones.......i don't want to turn this thread into another "he said she said".I know what goes on, you know what goes on, lets not tar everyone with the same brush.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit 'cause i is thick

Edited November 30, 2012 by paddy r

[MtB]

Do you " refer to all CCers as CMers". If so then yes, I am including to you. If not then no, I am not including you. Only you know the answer to that.

 

You didn't read my post properly then, or selectively edited your quote to suit your argument!

 

The rest of my post explained my position on this exact point. Its a 'no'.

 

The confusion arises because virtually all CMers are a subset of the class 'CCer', if you recall Venn diagrams at skool. Therefore we can state that (virtually) all CMers are CCers, but all not CCers are CMers.

 

MtB

[ditchcrawler]

You didn't read my post properly then, or selectively edited your quote to suit your argument!

 

The rest of my post explained my position on this exact point. Its a 'no'.

 

The confusion arises because virtually all CMers are a subset of the class 'CCer', if you recall Venn diagrams at skool. Therefore we can state that (virtually) all CMers are CCers, but all not CCers are CMers.

 

MtB

 

Another analogy is that all the people that are divorced have also been married, but not all people that have been married have been divorced.