Damaged Morso Squirrel Stove

[Dave_P]

For a while now I've had a small crack on the top of my stove in the corner at the left rear. Recently I've noticed the crack getting a bit bigger so I had a poke at it with my finger and a small section of the stove top has completely broken off in the corner. About an inch or so long.

 

Should I be worried about CO escaping and is there anything i can easily do to repair it? Also, what might have caused the crack in the first place?

 

My stove in centrally located in my boat and I have carbon monoxide detectors both fore and aft of it, neither of which have gone off.

[tafelberg]

Yes. you should be worried that is a potential fire hazard. (I'm a fire Marshal, just finished training today)! To have a fire you need FUEL + HEAT + OXYGEN and stoves give you all of those 3 especially if you have wood nearby. I would make sure you have a smoke detector near the stove. But if it was mine, I would not use it.

[Radiomariner]

You should also be worried (perhaps more so) about the potential for CO (the silent killer) leakage into your cabin.

From Jan 1st 2013 BSS examiners will be looking for cracks in your stove.

 

Edited to add :- Fireproof cement repairs are not acceptable

Edited November 28, 2012 by Radiomariner

[Dave_P]

I wasn't really worried about a fire hazard since the bit that has broken off hasn't left a hole leading to the fire box. It's really just from the sort-of back lip of the stove top. There is a smoke detector nearby and there's no smoke escaping. The fire triangle (heat, fuel, O2) doesn't exist here anymore than if the stove was undamaged, I don't store wood nearby and the surround is correctly tiled and hasn't changed since my last boat safety inspection.

 

I'll try and upload a photo of the damaged bit later.

 

My concern was that that if the damage caused further deterioration over time, CO might start to escape. So how can I prevent that? And how can I repair the stove?

 

As things are I would be more concerned about the risk of hypothermia if I stopped using it!

[John V]

You should also be worried (perhaps more so) about the potential for CO (the silent killer) leakage into your cabin.

From Jan 1st 2013 BSS examiners will be looking for cracks in your stove.

 

Must admit to being a bit puzzled by that, a couple of times over the years I have had cracks in stoves and the thing that caused me to change them was not that fumes were leaking out but that air was leaking in and making them blaze like mad

 

edited for spelling mistake

Edited November 28, 2012 by John V

[tafelberg]

I think it will help to see pictures.

[bottle]

And how can I repair the stove?

 

You buy a new top plate.

[Radiomariner]

Must admit to being a bit puzzled by that, a couple of times over the years I have had cracks in stoves and the thing that caused me to change them was not that fumes were leaking out but that air was leaking in and making them blaze like mad

 

edited for spelling mistake

 

Yes, well that happens too. Depends on size and location of crack. That is also not good as the stove can burn too hot by getting more air than it should.

[system 4-50]

...Edited to add :- Fireproof cement repairs are not acceptable

And yet the installation instructions for my puffin said fill in the gaps in the knock-out plugs for the back boiler with fireproof cement if you are not fitting the back boiler?

[Grace and Favour]

Linky to replacement TOP PLATE

[BEngo]

SNIP> And how can I repair the stove?

 

As things are I would be more concerned about the risk of hypothermia if I stopped using it!

 

 

Buy a new top from Harworth Heating, some 7mm fire rope to go all the way round and some glue to hold the rope to the top while you fit it.. It's held on by 4 M8x 15 (I think) bolts. Like the four elephants in a Mini- two at the front, two at the back. Pound to a pinch of the proverbial that you will have to grind the heads off them as they corrode in.

 

You can change over the blanking plate, if its a back flued stove; if not you have to take the flue out. Drain undo and wriggle the back boiler (if fitted) to where you can get at the bolts. Don't overtighten the new ones or the stove can't accommodate the movement needed when it warms up and will crack again.

 

N

[onionbargee]

your stove has two big holes in it already, the air controls.

 

Who started the panic on teeny little air gaps in stoves ?

 

can some one film a stove burning with the door open, with a co2 alarm next to it ?

[Grace and Favour]

your stove has two big holes in it already, the air controls.

 

Who started the panic on teeny little air gaps in stoves ?

 

can some one film a stove burning with the door open, with a co2 alarm next to it ?

 

I certainly cannot provide a film of a damaged stove being used.

 

But if you need proof of suitability, I suggest you use a similarly damaged stove during your next BSS

[Radiomariner]

And yet the installation instructions for my puffin said fill in the gaps in the knock-out plugs for the back boiler with fireproof cement if you are not fitting the back boiler?

 

So? What has that to do with it? These holes are in the stove design and intended to be filled with fireproof cement, manufacturers instructions.. A crack , especially in the top plate, is a very different thing. A cement repair, not manufacturers instructions, to such a crack can only be considered as a temporary repair. (Dont want anybody to die from hypothermia). Think about why the crack appeared in the first place. Apply some logic please!

 

your stove has two big holes in it already, the air controls.

 

Who started the panic on teeny little air gaps in stoves ?

 

can some one film a stove burning with the door open, with a co2 alarm next to it ?

 

I certianly can not show such a film, and what purpose would it serve? With the door open, the fire is getting lots of air and burning efficiently (very little CO produced) but possibly out of control. (Different hazard). Also a strong draught directs all the gases up the flue. Controling the fire means shutting the door and limiting the air. The fuel burns less efficiently and more CO is the result. The CO then accumulates in the fire box and flue. This will leak out.through unintended cracks into the cabin.

I can not believe that anyone with an ounce of brain can not see the possibility of a cracked stove as a hazard.

 

Come January, BSS eximiners will also be looking for cracks in glass doors (more than 2mm), incomplete damaged or missing door seals, (as well as signs of overheating surroundings which are already in the BSS guidelines).

 

I must point out, these checks are for "Advisory" purposes only, BSS are not promoting sales of new stoves or their parts. You can still get a certificate. However once the examiner has found such defects it will be on file that the owner has been advised of these findings. As it is the owners responsibility to keep his boat safe at all times, should an accident happen, owners negligence could be cited as a root cause.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Radiomariner

[onionbargee]

to stop the crack spreading drill a small hole at the end of it. You might find the casting has a hard skin, and ruins your drill bit, but once your through that its soft iron.

 

 

fill the crack with High temp silicone. fire cement shrinks as it dries.

[nbfiresprite]

 

I must point out, these checks are for "Advisory" purposes only, BSS are not promoting sales of new stoves or their parts. You can still get a certificate. However once the examiner has found such defects it will be on file that the owner has been advised of these findings. As it is the owners responsibility to keep his boat safe at all times, should an accident happen, owners negligence could be cited as a root cause.

 

But then there are some chandler owning examiners who would have a interest promoting sales of new stoves or their parts.

[system 4-50]

So? What has that to do with it? These holes are in the stove design and intended to be filled with fireproof cement, manufacturers instructions.. A crack , especially in the top plate, is a very different thing. A cement repair, not manufacturers instructions, to such a crack can only be considered as a temporary repair. (Dont want anybody to die from hypothermia). Think about why the crack appeared in the first place. Apply some logic please!

 

I plead guilty to not fully expressing what I was thinking, which is - I am not entirely happy that the tiny ridge of cement that I can get into the blanking hole cracks is good either.

[BargeeSpud]

I had the same with mine & as it was 12 years old, decided to replace rather than risk CO poisoning.

 

If you're thinking of replacing the top plate, be aware that it will be a very delicate job removing the old one without damaging the caseing as the nuts & bolts/studs holding it together will be virtually welded together. I had to destroy my stove to get it out, unbolting the flue collar was impossible without smashing off the nuts as space is so restricted.

 

I think the idea of sealing with the silicon is a great idea as it will buy you time to decide if & when you want to replace the stove.

[ditchcrawler]

I had a Back Cabin Stove from MC and I thought just the chimney collar had cracked, got it off and found the top had also cracked, started taking it apart to fit a new top and the end had also cracked, weighed it in for scrap and bought a new one.

 

I would say that for people worrying about a small crack in the top and CO escaping, this stove has two round hatches that sit on the top, one over the fire the other over the oven, the one over the fire even sits in a removable ring that also just sits on the top of the stove. There are no seals around them, or around the fire door. I am sure the gaps would add up to much more area than a crack. But I do know they wont cause the stove to fall in half when its hot.

[churchward]

your stove has two big holes in it already, the air controls.

 

Who started the panic on teeny little air gaps in stoves ?

 

can some one film a stove burning with the door open, with a co2 alarm next to it ?

I can give a first hand account.

 

On a share boat some years ago the stove glass cracked and a section of glass fell back in to the fire. I thought it would be OK like you and actually removed the piece which was about a third of the glass area so a large section. I intended to get some new glass in the morning.

 

Fortunately we had brought our portable C0 detector from home (the boat didn't have one at the time) and was on the table a couple of metres away from the fire. about an hour later it went off. The display showed over 650 parts CO per million. Given that at the time (2004 possibly) I think the maximum background tolerable level was about 70 this measurement was significant. I opened all windows and doors to get some air in and got the fire out of the stove into the cut.

 

I hate to think what may have happened had we not had the CO detector with us, would we have fallen to sleep and not woke up.

 

As it was the detector gave us enough warning and we seemed to suffer no particular ill effects other than a bit of a headache for my wife.

 

So within the very confined spaces of a narrow boat we need to be cautious I think and unintended holes or cracks can be very significant. It is not comparable with the same things happening in a house.

[BargeeSpud]

 

I would say that for people worrying about a small crack in the top and CO escaping, this stove has two round hatches that sit on the top, one over the fire the other over the oven, the one over the fire even sits in a removable ring that also just sits on the top of the stove. There are no seals around them, or around the fire door. I am sure the gaps would add up to much more area than a crack. But I do know they wont cause the stove to fall in half when its hot.

The OP explained that the hole had developed & was not just a crack. The various "cracks" that exist around doors, plugs etc., are designed to be there, a hole in the caseing is not.

[Flocal]

Can anyone recommend a good high temperature silicon please?

[BargeeSpud]

Most chandlers that sell stoves, flues & stove accessories etc., should have it.

 

This product from Midland Chandlers does the job:

 

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/Products/Heating/SolidFuelSparesAccessories/SolidFuelConsumables/CementAdhesives/AM061.aspx

 

Same product at Screwfix:

 

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=Yl3zQ3PWKsGMfPtDWvNQ8MGLq7KvJyzGGz5nMrXv7z4rFMCL1p8j!-400250036?fh_search=Plumba+Flu&fh_view_size=20

Edited November 29, 2012 by Spuds

[BEngo]

Can anyone recommend a good high temperature silicon please?

 

 

Depends on what you mean by High Temp, but Dow Corning Dow Corning Product Selectorwould be a good starting point as they have a wide range of silicone(silicon is the stuff for transistors, integrated circuits and glass) sealants. If it's just for a boat fire mine seems quite happy with Plumba Flue, which is probably easier to get hold of than Dow Corning high temperature products.

 

N

[bottle]

Can anyone recommend a good high temperature silicon please?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/geocel-trade-mate-plumba-flue-silicone-black-310ml/66373?cm_sp=Search-_-SearchRec-_-Area2&_requestid=241557 (they also do it in red)