Questions to ask on a test run before purchase?

[Salopgal]

Hello all

 

Well, rightly or wrongly, my Mum has committed us to buying a particular narrowboat and so I am going on a test run tomorrow with the vendors. Mum got a bit ahead of herself on Saturday enthusiasm wise and put down a deposit, even though we had agreed on the drive down to Nantwich to think it over for 48 hours...!!! Aaaarrggh!

 

I know this is really short notice and lots of you may not be online tonight, but in case you are, you may just be able to find some time to advise me. I'm not sure what questions to ask tomorrow. I've made a bit of a list, but you experts out there might think of something obvious that I've missed!

 

If you can think of anything, I'll check my mails before I leave at 9.45am tomorrow morning and look forward to reporting back how I got on.

 

Bye for now and thanks so much !!

 

K x

[Ray T]

Is there a paper trail of having the engine regularly serviced?

[RichardH]

It has been stated more times on the forum than "pump out is better than casette" but please reassure us that your mum has had a survey done.

 

If she has then in effect the test drive is probably limited to personal preference stuff such as does she feel comfy at the tiller - many are too high or low for the steerer. Does she feel that the boat is ok length wise, can she pull it in and hold on the rope without needing a crew of 6 etc

 

If she hasn't had a survey done then a test drive is really just scratching the surface of what could lurk within.

[Tuscan]

1. when does the current boat safety certificate expire?

2. do you expect the survey to reveal anything untoward , if so what then make sure your Mum is there with the surveyor as she will learn a lot about what may need doing now and in the future. It is normal to expect the vendor to put right defects identified by the survey or make an allowance for the cost of you doing so.

3. when was the engine last serviced and do you have the receipts.

4. check the heating works

 

Good luck

[Guest]

Questions to ask on a test run before purchase?

 

Will you take my mother in part exchange?

[Salopgal]

Hi both

 

There's a pump out and cassette toilet, so a choice.

 

There is a good service history - the boat is 20 years old but seems to be incredibly well looked after.

 

• 
   
  
• Roof repainted and hull blacked July 2012.
  
• Engine fully serviced June 2012.
  
• Whole boat professionally painted 2010.
  
• Water tank relined last year.
  
• New central heating system last year.
  
• Gas refit last year.
  
• Immaculate inside and out.
  

 

Survey will be knocked off the price of the boat...

 

Vendors are lovely, have met them already, so am much more confident than I was yesterday when I was panicking.

 

But as Mum said, we've committed ourselves now and have to live with the outcome...

 

I'm not normally this rash, but she is, so it's tricky, but nothing I can do. Hoping for the best, which probably sends shivers up your spines but Mum's taking the financial responsibility and she is very cheerful about it, I might add.

 

All a bit weird, but onwards and upwards!

 

K x

 

Questions to ask on a test run before purchase?

 

Will you take my mother in part exchange?

 

 

I wish!!

 

Moorings last till 1st Jan 2013.

 

Licence lasts to May 2013.

 

Boat safety certificate to June 2015.

[Tuscan]

Hi both

 

There's a pump out and cassette toilet, so a choice.

 

There is a good service history - the boat is 20 years old but seems to be incredibly well looked after.

 

• 
   
  
• Roof repainted and hull blacked July 2012.
  
• Engine fully serviced June 2012.
  
• Whole boat professionally painted 2010.
  
• Water tank relined last year.
  
• New central heating system last year.
  
• Gas refit last year.
  
• Immaculate inside and out.
  

 

Survey will be knocked off the price of the boat...

 

Vendors are lovely, have met them already, so am much more confident than I was yesterday when I was panicking.

 

But as Mum said, we've committed ourselves now and have to live with the outcome...

 

I'm not normally this rash, but she is, so it's tricky, but nothing I can do. Hoping for the best, which probably sends shivers up your spines but Mum's taking the financial responsibility and she is very cheerful about it, I might add.

 

All a bit weird, but onwards and upwards!

 

K x

 

 

 

 

I wish!!

 

Moorings last till 1st Jan 2013.

 

Licence lasts to May 2013.

 

Boat safety certificate to June 2015.

 

 

 

 

sounds nice - the hard bit is not to commit any more cash until you get the survey results. have a good trip and good luck

 

just one thing ring an insurance company and get a price for insurance - they might insist on a specific hull survey as its 20 years old in which case make sure its covered by the survey so you get it all done in one go whilst the boat is out of the water.

[ditchcrawler]

She did make the offer "subject to survey" didn't she.

Con men are really nice

Make sure its theirs to sell.

[Nightwatch]

You may like to consider saying the boats name so that the more knowledgeable of us might be able to advise as to what to look for from a particular boat builder.

 

Seems you are having a survey carried out. This is essential. certainly for a twenty year old boat. Be aware that some insurance companies will require a survey on boats of a certain age. Different companies, different age etc.

 

When out and about on the boat make sure all that should work does so. Ask how things turn on. eg. Hot water only, hot water and heating etc.

 

Safety Cert. It may be that the mods to the boat were carried out after the present cert was issued. Ensure that the gas/electrics are checked.

 

I have been bitten in the past. You can't ask too many questions.

 

Hope all goes through okay without issues.

 

As you say, onwards and upwards. Seems you life is getting a little closer to being as normal as possible. With a boat it will never be normal.

 

Martyn

[MtB]

Is there a paper trail of having the engine regularly serviced?

 

More to the point, did you see a paper trail of receipts showing the vendor actually owns the boat and is entitled to sell it?

 

Mike

 

P.S. you may decide that you trust the vendor, but in a few years and you come to sell, you'll need some paper evidence yourself that you own it, to show potential purchasers.

[Salopgal]

You may like to consider saying the boats name so that the more knowledgeable of us might be able to advise as to what to look for from a particular boat builder.

 

Seems you are having a survey carried out. This is essential. certainly for a twenty year old boat. Be aware that some insurance companies will require a survey on boats of a certain age. Different companies, different age etc.

 

With a boat it will never be normal.

 

 

Thanks for that! Am discussing getting survey done tomorrow and when. Didn't know about that in regard to insurance and none of the companies Mum has rung mentioned that.

 

The boat is Delilah:

 

http://www.swanleybrokerage.co.uk/boats/boat/120

[Paul C]

We never had a test run but wish we did! In the end, the boat is absolutely fine but there were/are a few quirks which we had to become accustomed to.

 

I'll leave the 'other' checks and questions for others, and simply concentrate on a potential test run.

 

1. Make sure you see the boat start from cold (don't let them run it up to temperature before you get there). Almost all boats should be fine but if there's an issue here, it could be a right PITA.

 

2. Try it out at a wide variety of different revs, to see if there's any unusual vibrations at any particular speed.

 

3. See how reverse is. We have a relatively small (45') boat and it has quite a stumpy swim, this means that reverse is quite ineffective at slowing the boat down; and another effect is, if the boat isn't travelling completely straight in reverse, it will tend to exaggerage whichever direction its tending towards. Some boats are quite stable in reverse, and some can even be steered backwards. There will probably be some prop-walk, see how good/bad it is.

 

4. Let go of the tiller (going forwards) and see how stable the boat is. Ours is quite stable but we've driven a boat which was, basically, unstable and was a pain to try and drive in a straight line, it needed a firm grip of the tiller at all times otherwise it would veer off.

 

5. If it has a bow thruster, try it out. Keep your finger on the button until the vendor panics and tells you "that's enough" or whatever.

 

6. Try winding it. Try mooring in a confined space. Mind you, if you're not used to driving a narrowboat, this might not be of much value if you can't compare it against another boat.

[ditchcrawler]

Ether you or your surveyor checks the material the toilet tank is made of.

I was talking to someone who bought a ex Stow Hill boat last year and the top of the pumpout tank was rotten and when the tank was full leaked into the boat.

It may have been a one off, but worth checking if they use mild steel.

[Guest]

Ed - the images seem to actually show a boat with two different lounges and bedrooms...

 

The external shots make it look like a nice boat though....

 

The PDF file seems fine though, apart from the reference to 'two chairs in the saloon' which matches one of the images in the slideshow.

 

Sloppy brokerage - I won't ever be using them to sell my boat....

Edited November 15, 2012 by The Dog House

[MtB]

Thanks for that! Am discussing getting survey done tomorrow and when. Didn't know about that in regard to insurance and none of the companies Mum has rung mentioned that.

 

The boat is Delilah:

 

http://www.swanleybr.../boats/boat/120

 

That's a very stylish-looking boat from a well respected builder. Excellent choice! All portholes too, classy!

 

I think you'll find it suits you very well.

 

Mike

[Chris Pink]

More to the point, did you see a paper trail of receipts showing the vendor actually owns the boat and is entitled to sell it?

 

Mike

 

P.S. you may decide that you trust the vendor, but in a few years and you come to sell, you'll need some paper evidence yourself that you own it, to show potential purchasers.

 

I only have paperwork for one of my boats (MCA registered). Does that mean I don't own any of them?

[onionbargee]

why are flames coming out of the exhaust, why have you got a 3 inch pump running in the cabin, is gas meant to be plumbed in with garden hose, why do the taps run canal water ?

[Salopgal]

Thanks so much for everything you have said. Paul - that's really useful stuff about steering etc - brilliant.

 

Mike - it means a lot - thanks for kind words!

 

Yes, I agree about the photos. They seem to have changed them in the last week as the cream saloon and bedroom weren't on the website last weekend so perhaps a blip? I will ask them tomorrow.

 

The actual saloon is the one with the two old fashioned chairs. Love them! Everything from waist height up comes with the boat so from that perspective, it is good to go...

 

[alan_fincher]

My fingers keep pulling away from the keyboard, because I'm reluctant to say anything that might be construed as negative.

 

However, although Stowe Hill boats are normally very highly regarded, I know I have seen one of a similar vintage to that on a slipway where the quality of the original hull welds was very suspect.

 

It was bad enough that, although I was working on my own boat, and in no way involved, both a surveyor and the chap who subsequently blacked it thought it unusual enough to call me over and point out the defects. The surveyor said such shortcomings were highly unusual, even on boats built by others to much cheaper budgets.

 

The main issue was in quite a few places where the side plates were joined together, the welds were nothing like full depth, leaving great indented hollows in many places where they should have been built up to the level of the plates they were joining.

 

Although not life threatening to the boat at that stage, it meant that some of it that should have started off with a full 6mm of metal had never been more than 3mm or 4mm at those points. (Obviously the other side of these welds, being hidden behind the linings of the boat, are not even available for inspection).

 

Furthermore the counter featured low down, rubbing strake or "guards", that were not fully welded top and bottom, but which actually sat under water as the boat was afloat, thereby causing potential corrosion traps.

 

Hopefully this was a one-off bad build by Stowe Hill, and not what other boats of that era from them would have been like, but on balance it was bad enough I think you should be aware other boats could have been similar.

 

The good news is that these faults are blatantly obvious even to an amateur eye, and any surveyor worth their salt would spot them straight away. Hopefully "Delilah" will not be like the one I was shown. But it emphasises why a survey is so important.

 

(Sorry...)

[Salopgal]

Thanks Alan - I really do need to know all this stuff and it's really helpful.

 

I'm printing all these replies off and will take them with me tomorrow. Really grateful that you saw my post and took the time to reply. I'm bowled over by how helpful you guys are and I need to be aware of the bad as well as the good. Especially when it's coming out of my Dad's ISA!!

 

[Paul C]

Alan's is a precautionary tale but I think its fair to say its the exception, rather than the rule, with most boat builders; and could happen to many of them, not just Stowe Hill boats. All the more reason for getting a survey, even though its unlikely.

[mrsmelly]

More to the point, did you see a paper trail of receipts showing the vendor actually owns the boat and is entitled to sell it?

 

Mike

 

P.S. you may decide that you trust the vendor, but in a few years and you come to sell, you'll need some paper evidence yourself that you own it, to show potential purchasers.

 

Hi Mike

 

I have to disagree I have owned six boats including this one. I have never had a survey and never had any paperwork to prove that I owned it. My last sale was last year to a guy through a broker who also paid me cash and he didnt survey my boat before he bought it either for nearly 60 k. Paperwork is great but can be forged and there are plenty of boats out there in good nick with honest owners wanting to sell.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

Alan's is a precautionary tale but I think its fair to say its the exception, rather than the rule, with most boat builders; and could happen to many of them, not just Stowe Hill boats. All the more reason for getting a survey, even though its unlikely.

Yes, agreed, which is why I was hesitasting to post at all.

 

I guess what surprised all who saw that boat is that Stowe Hill boats were upmarket of many, in terms of initial cost, so it was not a shell one would have expected to see such poor quality workmanship on.

 

I very much doubt if they had turned out lots that way that they would have kept building them for anything like as long as they did, so I'm very prepared to think it was not typical of the breed.

 

Another odd thing about the boat I saw was that for some reason someone had already just bought it, but was choosing to have it surveyed as an afterthought, after the deal was struck, and the transaction completed.

 

I have no idea why they did it that way round, and neither did the surveyor!

[Ange]

A test run before purchase - what's that? Our boat was still on hard standing at Harralls when we handed over our dosh - the surveyor hadn't even been able to run the engine because it's raw water cooled

 

What lucky fools we were!!!

 

Best of luck

[Grace and Favour]

Hi Mike

 

I have to disagree I have owned six boats including this one. I have never had a survey and never had any paperwork to prove that I owned it. My last sale was last year to a guy through a broker who also paid me cash and he didnt survey my boat before he bought it either for nearly 60 k. Paperwork is great but can be forged and there are plenty of boats out there in good nick with honest owners wanting to sell.

 

Tim

 

Ah! - - But, OP, please note! - - - Mrsmelly has decades of experience with boats . . . . just because he has the ability and nous to make an 'educated' (sic) decision on the condition and likely longevity of a craft doesn't mean that all should replicate it.

 

I would applaud any new (to) boat owners whom wish to have a survey - - it may not be an hundred percent guarantee against faults - - but it's certainly a step towards it

Edited November 15, 2012 by Grace & Favour