Oops! - York

[Minos]

The pontoons at Linton Lock are lock landings - about three narrowboats long. The pontoon at Naburn is the water point, and home to the patrol boat. That's one boat long when the patrol boat is there.

 

Both locations are, as has already been said, several hours journey from York.

 

We've seen the water levels in York rise by two feet in an hour. In spring this year the water was a foot below the towpath at 10pm, and by 5am we were floating above the towpath.

 

Given that this can happen at any time, and you can't rely on flood alerts because the EA doesn't issue alerts until they think the water levels are going to be up to the pavement at Kings Staith, if you're going to stay in York and treat Naburn and Linton as your safe refuges, then check the water levels regularly throughout the night and be prepared to move during the night.

[Hairy-Neil]

A quote from the York Press web site:

 

"Latest on capsized barge: A spokesman for North Yorkshire Fire and Rescue said fire crews were called to reports of a long boat in danger of capsizing.

 

He said when firefighters arrived they found the boat badly listing to the port side.

 

Crews cut the mooring lines on the boat to try to right the vessel but due to the amount of water taken on board firefighters were unable to save it and had to let the boat sink."

 

 

So we have barges and long boats here in York but no mention of narrowboats. Oh... and it was actually listing to starboard!

 

Never believe newspapers!

 

When a friends's boat was reported as sinking (he wasn't there at the time) the fire brigade actually caused it to sink. They were pumping from the front cockpit, causing the stern to drop further under and subsequently submerging the engine vent. Before they knew it she was on the bottom...

[Naughty Cal]

The pontoons at Linton Lock are lock landings - about three narrowboats long. The pontoon at Naburn is the water point, and home to the patrol boat. That's one boat long when the patrol boat is there.

 

Both locations are, as has already been said, several hours journey from York.

 

We've seen the water levels in York rise by two feet in an hour. In spring this year the water was a foot below the towpath at 10pm, and by 5am we were floating above the towpath.

 

Given that this can happen at any time, and you can't rely on flood alerts because the EA doesn't issue alerts until they think the water levels are going to be up to the pavement at Kings Staith, if you're going to stay in York and treat Naburn and Linton as your safe refuges, then check the water levels regularly throughout the night and be prepared to move during the night.

 

It may take you that long to get from York to Naburn but not everyone.

 

The "lock" landings are Linton are specifically designed with huge poles to be a safe haven during flood conditions as are the floating pontoons at both Naburn Marina and Naburn lock.

 

The river level doesnt just rise of its own accord when it fancies it. So by keeping a close eye on the weather you can predict when the river is going to rise and plan where to moor accordingly.

 

Given that this storm was well forecast and there were several hours of rain before it became a problem not enough time really isnt an excuse, there is always ample time to find a safe haven on the Ouse.

[Minos]

Given that this storm was well forecast and there were several hours of rain before it became a problem not enough time really isnt an excuse, there is always ample time to find a safe haven on the Ouse.

I take your point, but personally I am inclined to be a little bit more sympathetic towards the two boat owners who had such a terrible time yesterday.

 

York is the second most popular tourist destination in the UK, beaten only by the whole of London. Last July, nine narrowboats were invited to the city for the flotilla, and then left with no safe mooring when the water levels rose.

 

In my view, telling people to use the nearest safe mooring, which is eleven miles upstream (Linton being far better in a flood than Naburn) is pretty inadequate. That's why I would advise people not to go unless they are willing to pay for a berth in one of the marinas.

[Naughty Cal]

I take your point, but personally I am inclined to be a little bit more sympathetic towards the two boat owners who had such a terrible time yesterday.

 

York is the second most popular tourist destination in the UK, beaten only by the whole of London. Last July, nine narrowboats were invited to the city for the flotilla, and then left with no safe mooring when the water levels rose.

 

In my view, telling people to use the nearest safe mooring, which is eleven miles upstream (Linton being far better in a flood than Naburn) is pretty inadequate. That's why I would advise people not to go unless they are willing to pay for a berth in one of the marinas.

 

But they were not left without a safe mooring. The safe moorings are there they chose not to use them and decided not to keep an eye on the weather.

 

And as for advising people not to visit York, all I can say is it is a good job most people are willing to do a little bit of research and realise that York is a great place to visit with a great selection of safe and adequate moorings.

 

9 narrowboats not being prepared and not watching the weather does not mean that a city is unsafe or unwise to visit.

[matty40s]

 

Given that this storm was well forecast and there were several hours of rain before it became a problem not enough time really isnt an excuse, there is always ample time to find a safe haven on the Ouse.

 

Phylis, that is a crap statement.

The weather buffs started to pick it up Thursday, but even on Saturday the track and depth were of no certainty.

This storm was not picked up by the normal public information sites (BBC, Met Office etc)at all unil Sunday.

Even then all the indications were that it would be South, Midlands and then NW area that would be worst hit.It was only as Monday progressed that it became clear that the Low had deepened to such an extent and moved in a way not expected that the MetOfice finally put warnings to the NE sector.

[Naughty Cal]

Phylis, that is a crap statement.

The weather buffs started to pick it up Thursday, but even on Saturday the track and depth were of no certainty.

This storm was not picked up by the normal public information sites (BBC, Met Office etc)at all unil Sunday.

Even then all the indications were that it would be South, Midlands and then NW area that would be worst hit.It was only as Monday progressed that it became clear that the Low had deepened to such an extent and moved in a way not expected that the MetOfice finally put warnings to the NE sector.

 

The Ouse rises when a bluebird cries on the upper reaches. It isnt at all rocket science that if there has been a lot of rain in the upper sections of the Ouse that it is going to rise like this.

 

By Sunday it was fairly obvious that the Ouse was going to be in flood before too long. It didnt become a huge problem until Monday nigh, Tuesday morning this gave boaters at the very least a whole day to find safe moorings, ample time by even a narrowboaters timescales.

[Mac of Cygnet]

You can watch the river levels of the entire catchment area of any river using the website which Martin (The Dog House) posted on the Aire and Calder thread recently. The progress of water levels moving down the main river and tributaries over a 48 hour period in the form of graphs allows you to predict fairly accurately when the flood will reach any point. Here is the relevant page for the Yorkshire Ouse. As you can see, the graphs are pretty dramatic recently. (Click on the dots, which are monitoring stations.)

 

Far better than the weather forecast for where you are, which can be pretty irrelevant.

 

Edited to alter the timescale

Edited September 26, 2012 by Mac of Cygnet

[Minos]

But they were not left without a safe mooring. The safe moorings are there they chose not to use them and decided not to keep an eye on the weather.

 

And as for advising people not to visit York, all I can say is it is a good job most people are willing to do a little bit of research and realise that York is a great place to visit with a great selection of safe and adequate moorings.

 

9 narrowboats not being prepared and not watching the weather does not mean that a city is unsafe or unwise to visit.

I see I'm not the only person who thinks you're being a little bit blunt and unsympathetic about this.

 

My comments do include the added point that you would need to be prepared to pay for a marina mooring to ensure that your boat is safe; if you choose to ignore that and bludgeon on with your challenge to it, it's not me who is being less than straightforward about this.

 

The simple fact is that in my opinion, after more than a dozen trips up the Ouse to York in the last 18 months, it is not a safe place to bring a narrowboat unless your intention is to use a marina - and I advise people to that effect.

 

You're entitled to disagree, but to suggest that I came to this conclusion without having done "a little bit of research" when you are clearly not even bothering to read what I have posted is a bit rich! I would also add that your implication that the two boats lost yesterday were crewed by people who had also failed to do any research is jumping the gun.

 

Unless, of course, you know the two crews and have good reason to conclude that they were negligent?

Edited September 26, 2012 by Minos

[Naughty Cal]

I see I'm not the only person who thinks you're being a little bit blunt and unsympathetic about this.

 

My comments do include the added point that you would need to be prepared to pay for a marina mooring to ensure that your boat is safe; if you choose to ignore that and bludgeon on with your challenge to it, it's not me who is being less than straightforward about this.

 

The simple fact is that in my opinion, after more than a dozen trips up the Ouse to York in the last 18 months, it is not a safe place to bring a narrowboat unless your intention is to use a marina - and I advise people to that effect.

 

You're entitled to disagree, but to suggest that I came to this conclusion without having done "a little bit of research" when you are clearly not even bothering to read what I have posted is a bit rich! I would also add that your implication that the two boats lost yesterday were crewed by people who had also failed to do any research is jumping the gun.

 

Unless, of course, you know the two crews and have good reason to conclude that they were negligent?

 

And where have I suggested that the crews of the lost boats were negligent?

 

My point was that your suggestion that York is an unsafe place to moor unless you want to pay for moorings is a nonsense as is your stance that you cant possibly get to safe moorings should the river start to rise. Both of which are nonsense.

 

As has repeatedly been pointed out to you there are ways and means of predicting when the river is going to rise and when you should seek out safe moorings which you dont necesarily have to pay for.

 

If you have been so many times over the past 18 months though you will already know this having done your research

[Québec]

Lots of road closures around York.

 

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9950058.Road_closure_updates/

[Naughty Cal]

Lots of road closures around York.

 

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9950058.Road_closure_updates/

 

One line in that report sums that up quite nicely.

 

A council spokeswoman said: "Current river levels are 4.54 mtrs above summer level (asl). Levels are expected to peak in the next 24hrs and decrease steadily. To put this into context. the maximum river levels in the year 2000 floods was 5.4 mtrs asl, so York is very much open for business and all agencies have sufficient resources in place."

 

York is used to flooding, this is nothing out of the ordinary for the city

Edited September 26, 2012 by Phylis

[Roxy]

Thought you was on about our boat OOPS! but were now back from York and safely moored at our home moorings, mind you I watched the River Soar come up about 5 inches in about 3 hours yesterday, and the poor guy thats boat sunk last time the Soar flooded was down checking his newly bought boat mooring lines...Guess it's because he has such good neighbours his new boat hasn't sunk for a second time.

[matty40s]

A couple of piccies of the rescue at 7am. Looks like all the ropes were tied to the bollards and couldn't be loosened quick enough.

The water is now higher than at any time since 2000.

Edited September 26, 2012 by matty40s

[Québec]

Cawood, down river from York. 5pm. Still rising. Apparently you can stand by the flood wall, put your hand over, and touch water.

Residents, including friend who took this, all received telephone warnings from Environment Agency to move valuables upstairs and livestock to higher ground.

 

[Guest]

A couple of piccies of the rescue at 7am. Looks like all the ropes were tied to the bollards and couldn't be loosened quick enough.

The water is now higher than at any time since 2000.

Exactly. There is a lot of "shoulda, woulda, coulda" as usual, but freak conditions can catch anybody out. The river next to our home was a foot short of flooding us in the early hours of this morning. I have lived here since 1978, and that is the first time it has come anywhere close.

 

My sympathy to those who have been affected in any way by this freak weather.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Guest

[Circe]

 

York is used to flooding, this is nothing out of the ordinary for the city

 

Actually - we live in central York close to the Museum Gardens. This IS out of the ordinary for the city. Everyone is comparing it with the 2000 floods and we're anticipating it's going to come in just short of the levels it reached back then.

 

 

I feel very sorry for the people who've lost their boat. It's just awful for them.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Circe

[Derek Porteous]

About 7 years ago we were moored overnight at Kings Straith. The river rose to a foot or two from the top of the wharf so we decided to run up to Linton Lock for a safe mooring. We arrived some four hours later (the current was strong by this time) and moored on the floating pontoon above the lock to sit out the flood. The following day the whole of the lock was under water. We were quite safe and, unlike the floating pontoon below the lock, had access to the river bank. We waited it out for a week before it was safe to move. This got me thinking. Where do York Boats go during severe floods? Their normal berth is just downstream of Lendal Bridge, rafted up. Do they remain there or go elsewhere? Also how secure are the numerous private moorings which seem to be fixed to the river bank by somewhat flimsy looking scaffolding poles? Anyone know?

[Circe]

Yes - York boats have a floating pontoon, so are safe.

 

The flood defences have been breached in a few parts of the city during the night and homes that are normally safe from flooding have been hit.

 

We've always booked into York Marina when the river's flooded in the past, but I wonder how all the boats are getting on at the moment. Water levels are incredibly high.

[Naughty Cal]

Cawood, down river from York. 5pm. Still rising. Apparently you can stand by the flood wall, put your hand over, and touch water.

Residents, including friend who took this, all received telephone warnings from Environment Agency to move valuables upstairs and livestock to higher ground.

 

 

Our friends in Barlby a little further downstream have been told by the EA that they expect the Ouse to break its banks this morning near where they live. Luckily for them they are on slightly higher ground but the village and farm near their cottage probably wont be so lucky

 

The 2000 floods in York reached a height of 5.4m, this one is expected to peak at 5.0m so is some way off the levels of the 2000 floods. That is of course of little use to those who have been affected by the flood waters.

 

Yes - York boats have a floating pontoon, so are safe.

The flood defences have been breached in a few parts of the city during the night and homes that are normally safe from flooding have been hit.

 

We've always booked into York Marina when the river's flooded in the past, but I wonder how all the boats are getting on at the moment. Water levels are incredibly high.

 

But they are not on their usual moorings!!

 

There is a narrowboat and a cruiser on their "normal" moorings

[Minos]

 

But they are not on their usual moorings!!

 

There is a narrowboat and a cruiser on their "normal" moorings

All the York Boats are kept on floating pontoons owned by the York Boat operator. He has several - in the city centre and elsewhere.

 

When the river flooded in July I spoke to him about the possibility of using his floating pontoons as a refuge to keep narrowboats safe. His answer was as clear as an answer can be: he is not allowed to stop people using his pontoons when water levels are dangerously high and he is not operating from them.

 

Even when the river is flooded, though, if the York Boats are operating he can and will remove any boats that use his pontoons.

[Naughty Cal]

All the York Boats are kept on floating pontoons owned by the York Boat operator. He has several - in the city centre and elsewhere.

 

When the river flooded in July I spoke to him about the possibility of using his floating pontoons as a refuge to keep narrowboats safe. His answer was as clear as an answer can be: he is not allowed to stop people using his pontoons when water levels are dangerously high and he is not operating from them.

 

Even when the river is flooded, though, if the York Boats are operating he can and will remove any boats that use his pontoons.

 

As would any trip boat operator. Their moorings are there to earn them money.

[luctor et emergo]

remove boats? How? Tow them to a different mooring? Simply untie them, and let them drift? Crane them out??

[Naughty Cal]

remove boats? How? Tow them to a different mooring? Simply untie them, and let them drift? Crane them out??

 

Ask them to leave?

[luctor et emergo]

Ask them to leave?

 

No, it says "he can, and will remove any boat..". That implies he physically removes a boat from the mooring, if it's in the way. Sure, if the boater is present, an exchange of words will likely see the offending boat moving on. But if the owner is not present, then what? Does he still move the boat, or work around it?