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Jam 'Ole run


jake_crew

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'Also controlling other users of the waterways to allow smooth passage.'

 

Now that's an interesting phrase.

 

As you probably know - what I mean is providing clear and concise instructions to them to move their boat (now usually stuck across the cut after doing an emergency stop) out the bridge 'ole, or other narrows, or show them which side of the boat to pass on! :cheers:

 

Safest for all concerned, and never taught on courses....

 

Mike

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Unfortunately some working boat enthusiasts, (fortunately a very small minority), don't seem to even need the additional argument that it is "a pair" to justify a boating style that often says "I think I have priorty, whatever!".

 

 

Going down Atherstone the other day I met a boater coming up the flight who had met several (ex) working boats earlier in the day, making their way back from Shackerstone. He had found their attitude to him quite boorish and was fairly upset. He was only placated when I said I had a fair idea to whom he was referring and that they were just as boorish to me even when I was working Alton and carrying more coal than they had had hot dinners.

 

Now I am no longer carrying and own a part converted josher (Badger) I dread to think just where I sit in their pecking order!

 

To quote Vicci........"am I bovvered".

 

George ex nb Alton retired

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As you probably know - what I mean is providing clear and concise instructions to them to move their boat (now usually stuck across the cut after doing an emergency stop) out the bridge 'ole, or other narrows, or show them which side of the boat to pass on! :cheers:

 

Safest for all concerned, and never taught on courses....

 

Mike

 

As you are the owner of a large historic narrowboat I wonder whether you have considered the possibility, that perhaps, you may be one of those whose antics are being discussed in this thread.

 

 

(edited for spelling)

Edited by Blaker
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As you are the owner of a large historic narrowboat I wonder whether you have considered the possibility, that perhaps, you may be one of those who's antics are being discussed in this thread.

I've met this one a time or two, and while they do tend to run 'top of the green' they have always been careful and courteous. Last time was in a bridge hole when I was heading for Braunston late one afternoon - think they were probably on there way to Alvecote - and we both went full speed into reverse and shifted quite a bit of water! (I have a RN DM2). No near miss, no broadside, no rude words, just a cheerful 'always happens in a bridge hole' and went our separate ways.

So as far as I am concerned, your antics are not being discussed here.

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The problem is that when there are a number of historic boats all travelling in the same direction there is almost a "guilt by association" tag placed upon all the boats because someone has met a boat in an awkward place and there is a dispute about who's bridge hole it was or whatever.

 

We found ourselves at the back of a convoy on The Ashby. I was not aware of any of the stuff that happened ahead of us but by talking to the various boats I have pieced together what happened beforehand which led to us being blamed for a coming together. Up front was Victoria who went through a brigehole that was his, a boat coming the other way moved to the side and slowed but Archimedes (loaded) was right behind following Victoris through. For some reason only known to the steerer of the other boat he thought it was a good idea to pull out in front of a fully loaded boat expecting it to give way in the bridge hole on a shallow canal? The next boat in the convoy was Biddie towing the butty Olive who where privy to the other chaps chuntering about working boats "owning the canals" then the tiny ice breaker Baltic is told that "their mate" just stole his bridgehole! regardless of whether they knew each other or not, because they own an old boat it is suddenly their fault! We had dropped back a little from the rest of the convoy and were coming around a blind bend when the other boat, probably wound up into a livid state by now by there being a line of boats all requiring the centre of the channel on a shallow canal, came around in the centre of the channel. We saw him long before he knew we were there and tried to move over as much as we dare to avoid a collision as he was not moving slowly. Needless to say once we lost the water below us we also lost steering and so realising an impact with this boat coming full pelt around the blind bend was inevitable we hit reverse hard to reduce the speed of impact. He then spotted us and yelled it was all our fault for reversing - eh? I would have thought anyone who had passed a line of 5 historic boats might have resonably thought when going into the next blind bend may have thought there was a possibility of another following?

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The problem is that when there are a number of historic boats all travelling in the same direction there is almost a "guilt by association" tag placed upon all the boats because someone has met a boat in an awkward place and there is a dispute about who's bridge hole it was or whatever.

 

We found ourselves at the back of a convoy on The Ashby. I was not aware of any of the stuff that happened ahead of us but by talking to the various boats I have pieced together what happened beforehand which led to us being blamed for a coming together. Up front was Victoria who went through a brigehole that was his, a boat coming the other way moved to the side and slowed but Archimedes (loaded) was right behind following Victoris through. For some reason only known to the steerer of the other boat he thought it was a good idea to pull out in front of a fully loaded boat expecting it to give way in the bridge hole on a shallow canal? The next boat in the convoy was Biddie towing the butty Olive who where privy to the other chaps chuntering about working boats "owning the canals" then the tiny ice breaker Baltic is told that "their mate" just stole his bridgehole! regardless of whether they knew each other or not, because they own an old boat it is suddenly their fault! We had dropped back a little from the rest of the convoy and were coming around a blind bend when the other boat, probably wound up into a livid state by now by there being a line of boats all requiring the centre of the channel on a shallow canal, came around in the centre of the channel. We saw him long before he knew we were there and tried to move over as much as we dare to avoid a collision as he was not moving slowly. Needless to say once we lost the water below us we also lost steering and so realising an impact with this boat coming full pelt around the blind bend was inevitable we hit reverse hard to reduce the speed of impact. He then spotted us and yelled it was all our fault for reversing - eh? I would have thought anyone who had passed a line of 5 historic boats might have resonably thought when going into the next blind bend may have thought there was a possibility of another following?

 

This tale reinforces my opinion that, when running in convoy, a decent gap should be left between boats. The wake of a deep draughted boat will pull any boat going the other way across behind him. This puts him in the path of the next boat in convoy and room should be left for him to regain his own side in comfort.

 

Secondly I must admit to being slightly peeved that, having been courteous and allowed another boat through a bridgehole, I find myself waiting while a complete convoy comes sailing by. On a windy day I can be more than peeved as I struggle to maintain station when really only a slowing down should have been necessary.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

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Three weeks ago we were coming south through Nuneaton and just as our bows were about a third of the way through Boot Lane bridge I spotted the front of an old (and presumably deep-draughted) tug about to enter the far side of the bridge-hole from a very sharp angle to our left. If he had attempted to stop when he did see me, he would inevitably have gone straight ahead instead of turning into the bridge hole, and we would have had quite a good bang! I definitely couldn't have stopped in time either, although my boat is modern and was travelling relatively slowly, as it is almost full length and is fairly heavy. At precisely the same instant we both gave full ahead, the tug so as to swing hard into the bridge hole and line up close to the towpath, and myself to manoeuvre as far as possible to my side (because I had of course been in the middle of the bridge hole).

 

We managed to pass in the bridge-hole without any noticeable touch, and as we passed we both smiled at each other and just said "good morning" (although of course he may have been cursing me under his breath). I was just heaving a big sigh of relief that he had the skill and experience to take the right action in a split-second. And being thankful that the Hargreaves wasn't on its pub mooring, because that is where our bows ended up!

 

 

 

Edited to add, on a different part of the topic: On two occasions I have had a boat that was coming the other way, wait for me at a bridge hole and then come through and hit the boat that I was towing (one of which was on cross-straps so only a couple of feet behind me). On each occasion the steerer had attempted to justify their part in the collision by saying that while they had been prepared to wait for one boat ot was unreasonable to expect them to wait for two.

Edited by Keeping Up
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This tale reinforces my opinion that, when running in convoy, a decent gap should be left between boats. The wake of a deep draughted boat will pull any boat going the other way across behind him. This puts him in the path of the next boat in convoy and room should be left for him to regain his own side in comfort.

 

Secondly I must admit to being slightly peeved that, having been courteous and allowed another boat through a bridgehole, I find myself waiting while a complete convoy comes sailing by. On a windy day I can be more than peeved as I struggle to maintain station when really only a slowing down should have been necessary.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

I agree with what you have said. It makes perfect sense to leave a decent gap especially when in convoy. The fact is that while Baltic and ourselves were travelling together and obviously Biddie & Olive were travelling together we had all actually caught up with each other as we were travelling the same route and I think if I am correct a short while before the pair had allowed Archimedes to overtake? None of us intended there to be a convoy but as we were all travelling to the same place along a twisty and shallow canal we ended up in convoy. The boat coming the other way had to pull over for the first boat as it had right of way and having done so the second boat which was the loaded one would probably really need to take advantage of the bridge hole as the oncoming boat had pulled over and the alternative would have been likely to get stuck on the bottom. We did not see this occur. The oncoming boat then came through ahead of all the rest of us but in fact because we had actually allowed a gap to open up between our boat and the rest it was us that ended up making contact with him and bearing the brunt of his frustration!

I can understand no one wants to wait for 6 boats to pass but having had to give way to one because they had right of way I do not think I would have been wanting to pull out into the path of a loaded boat and hope I could force him to stop!

 

What is rather interesting about this event is that we have met the same (oncoming) boat before, earlier this year when out on our own (more modern semi trad)boat. At that time were were working through locks with some friends on their two boats. One of those boats is a work in progress with a Gardner engine, the other a live aboard boat with the usual necessities on the roof ;). Then when we chatted happily to at the lock we were first in the line of three boats and went on our way but our friends were quite irritated by this chaps desire to loudly inform them that they were doing the locks all wrong and inform them of the correct way it should be done (even though they are both very experienced boaters)

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I agree with what you have said. It makes perfect sense to leave a decent gap especially when in convoy. The fact is that while Baltic and ourselves were travelling together and obviously Biddie & Olive were travelling together we had all actually caught up with each other as we were travelling the same route and I think if I am correct a short while before the pair had allowed Archimedes to overtake? None of us intended there to be a convoy but as we were all travelling to the same place along a twisty and shallow canal we ended up in convoy. The boat coming the other way had to pull over for the first boat as it had right of way and having done so the second boat which was the loaded one would probably really need to take advantage of the bridge hole as the oncoming boat had pulled over and the alternative would have been likely to get stuck on the bottom. We did not see this occur. The oncoming boat then came through ahead of all the rest of us but in fact because we had actually allowed a gap to open up between our boat and the rest it was us that ended up making contact with him and bearing the brunt of his frustration!

I can understand no one wants to wait for 6 boats to pass but having had to give way to one because they had right of way I do not think I would have been wanting to pull out into the path of a loaded boat and hope I could force him to stop!

 

What is rather interesting about this event is that we have met the same (oncoming) boat before, earlier this year when out on our own (more modern semi trad)boat. At that time were were working through locks with some friends on their two boats. One of those boats is a work in progress with a Gardner engine, the other a live aboard boat with the usual necessities on the roof ;). Then when we chatted happily to at the lock we were first in the line of three boats and went on our way but our friends were quite irritated by this chaps desire to loudly inform them that they were doing the locks all wrong and inform them of the correct way it should be done (even though they are both very experienced boaters)

 

 

 

I blame all these weekend charity boat sailors ! Now if you had been loaded with all these bricks you keep trying to offload you would have been deeper in the water and slower. By then you would have discovered like we did coming down behind you there were not bends but straights before some of the bridge holes. Having just crossed the Leicester section of the GU which is also very shallow had a similar experience with a community hire boat who seeing us progressing slowly in the middle went full astern, aground on the bank and then across the cut, we gently hit them causing general panic reversed into the channel and waited patiently whilst they sorted themselves out. They seemed only two have two hero title settings full ahead or full astern.

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Possibly a chance for a crewing advert here:

 

Should anyone wish to get first hand experience of working a pair, loaded and empty, and see things from the other point of view, the Narrowboat Trust is looking for more members to actively work on the boats. A opportunity to join us for a day will soon arise, along the GU.

 

If you are intersted please pm me or contact the crewing coordinator who's details are on the website at http://www.narrowboattrust.org.uk/contacts.htm

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Possibly a chance for a crewing advert here:

 

Should anyone wish to get first hand experience of working a pair, loaded and empty, and see things from the other point of view, the Narrowboat Trust is looking for more members to actively work on the boats. A opportunity to join us for a day will soon arise, along the GU.

 

If you are intersted please pm me or contact the crewing coordinator who's details are on the website at http://www.narrowboattrust.org.uk/contacts.htm

 

Will there be cake?

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Actually some recent Jam Hole events have produced boatmanship of the highest standards.

 

I shadowed Julia Cook on "Towcester" and David Lowe on "Swallow" on one a couple of years back, and you can learn an awful lot about how to make best possible progress, and still upset nobody, from experienced hands like these.

 

Watching Julia when she is single handing "Towcester" well loaded, sometimes, one can marvel at how little she relies on power, and how much on near perfect positioning and timing.

 

(I don't come close!....)

 

Alan, thank you for the kind words. I have been boating for 50 years, for about 35 of them managing and operating passenger and freight craft ranging from narrow boats to 500 tonners, and I still learn something new every day. I try to be considerate to others, especially when on 'Swallow' as we all do represent historic / working craft, giving way at bridgeholes if there is any doubt, etc and am almost always greeted with a smile and a wave, and sometimes a compliment about my boat so I guess I must generally get it right. I also manage to 'get it wrong' every now and then including breaking my ankle recently just stepping from a tail lock gate footboard on to the (as it turned out slippy) lock side! (Hence I missed Shackerstone and couldn't personally get to Alvecote).

It was indeed a pleasure and a privilege to travel with Julia, and I echo your sentiments - superb, unhurried, efficient boating.

While on the subject of passing other boats I have been involved recently in discussions with a heritage group concerning their training programme for boat crews. It is my opinion that one of the most important of all boating skills in canal (and river) boating is to learn how to recognise and keep to the channel, the importance of going round the outside of bends not only for the deeper water but so anyone coming the other way can see you in good time, to know the channel is not exctly always 'down the middle' (as some think) and that you don't always 'travel on the right' as many tend to do, while others move over far too early and too soon when passing (but I think that's been discussed on anther thread). I made the point that from discussions with and observations of people who have been on RYA and MCA courses that this is something that doesn't seem to be covered at all by course providers and trainers. I received a negative reaction from the group leader.

 

Kind regards

 

David L

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Possibly a chance for a crewing advert here:

 

Should anyone wish to get first hand experience of working a pair, loaded and empty, and see things from the other point of view, the Narrowboat Trust is looking for more members to actively work on the boats. A opportunity to join us for a day will soon arise, along the GU.

 

If you are intersted please pm me or contact the crewing coordinator who's details are on the website at http://www.narrowboattrust.org.uk/contacts.htm

Out of interest does the Narrow Boat Trust Ltd. still operate their crew / steerer training programme, and if so who are the principle trainers ?

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Having to deal with a rather large number of hire boats, and weekend privateers, on my local stretch of canal, I find that, on average, I can steer around almost any situation that they throw at me. Why, I hear you ask?

 

I assume that the boat coming my way, is inexperienced, and possibly stupid, and maybe even drunk. I therefore apply the same attitude that I apply when driving a 44tonner on the road. I know what I'm doing, I know where I want to go, and I make sure that I have a line to do so, regardless of the other users present.

 

 

Usually, I can adjust my speed, and approach, and actions, to deal with the other boat, and simply steer around them, and be on my way.

On the rare occassion that I tow a boat, I use the same practice as I use in an artic on a roundabout approach. Straddle the available space in such an obvious way, that is is almost impossible to get in the way, for others.

 

When you come through a bridge hole whilst towing a butty on a line, steer into the line of the waiting boat, and shout at them, that a towed boat is following. I take it, that you pass the waiting boat, before it has a chance to pass you into the bridge hole?

 

 

Looks to me, like a lot of chips, are being balanced, on to many shoulders...

 

 

A true proffessional will simply get on with his job, simply shrugging his shoulders at other's incompetence..

 

 

 

(Remember, everything you have, eat, or dispose of, has been, or will be, moved by a truck)

 

 

 

 

Edit to clean up phone spolling mistokes...

Edited by luctor et emergo
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Last time they did this they came past me a 4am at FULL speed, they also let the paddle gears slam down, which they know genuinely knackers them like nothing else. No boating skills involve not slowing for other moored boats, or abusing the locks, it's just arrogant boat pests, who've got nothing better to do than re-enact a coal delivery to a jam factory that doesn't even exist. At least train spotters do no harm, and keep the anorak industry alive, these Walter Mitys are just a P in the A.

 

Your not coming past me like that again fellas.

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Last time they did this......................

I very much doubt this was "the last time they did this" TBH.

 

The last runs have featured crews I would generally expect to have more respect, (and many of whom I am totally confident would have had more respect).

 

I'm not suggesting that no "cowboys" have ever got involved, but suspect you are tarring the more recent runs with what may have happened on some of the earlier ones. (And for balance, I do believe there are some historic boat owners, a small minority, capable of behaving like total plonkers, and giving the rest an undeserved bad name).

 

By the way, some of the boats involved still provide a very useful service as fuel boats, plying their trade up and down the canal. In my view far better to see these well presented boats out and about, getting very active use, rather than those spotted in run down state, that very seldom move any great distance over the same limited stretch of canal.

 

Just my view, anyway......

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