Closing lock gates with a strap

[Top cat]

I've hears descriptions of a technique where you close a top gate on a single lock by dropping a rope over the end post on the gate and the boat closes teh gate as it enters the lock. I've tried this without success can anyone explain how it should be done preferably with a link to a video

 

Thanks

 

TC

[kathleen bridget]

Take a peep at this thread

efficient locking

 

I have seen matty40s do this and it works....most of the time

[alan_fincher]

[Keeping Up]

Surely you'd normally do it from on the boat rather than from on the bank/gate ?

[Timleech]

Surely you'd normally do it from on the boat rather than from on the bank/gate ?

 

Why?

[Keeping Up]

I don't know (I've never done it or seen it done) but 'd just always pictured it as being done by the steerer standing on the boat and flicking the rope around the post at the end of the gate as he passed it, without taking the trouble to step off first

[MtB]

I've tried it staying on the baot counter and it doesn't work for me. I'll try it next time getting off the boat and pushing the gate to start it off like in the videos. This seems like it should work.

[alan_fincher]

I've tried it staying on the baot counter and it doesn't work for me. I'll try it next time getting off the boat and pushing the gate to start it off like in the videos. This seems like it should work.

Although Roger Fuller (or that's who I assume it is, although I'm told his brother is an identical twin!) helps the gate on its way there, it was certainly not always done strapping a motor boat in, I think.

 

I'm sure I have seen good footage of it done with a motor, (ignore the You Tube video of someone trying with Hawkesbury and not doing it at all well!), and have a feeling it was sometimes done using the motor's dolly on the side that the gate and strapping post isn't. That would result in the gate being pulled at a more suitable angle to get it going, I think. If the pull is too much "along the line of the lock", very little of the force is in the right direction to get the gate moving, which is maybe why Mr Fuller is seen giving it a helping hand.

 

I have usually seen it with stepping off, rather than trying to stay on the boat, I think.

[XAlan W]

Although Roger Fuller (or that's who I assume it is, although I'm told his brother is an identical twin!) helps the gate on its way there, it was certainly not always done strapping a motor boat in, I think.

 

I'm sure I have seen good footage of it done with a motor, (ignore the You Tube video of someone trying with Hawkesbury and not doing it at all well!), and have a feeling it was sometimes done using the motor's dolly on the side that the gate and strapping post isn't. That would result in the gate being pulled at a more suitable angle to get it going, I think. If the pull is too much "along the line of the lock", very little of the force is in the right direction to get the gate moving, which is maybe why Mr Fuller is seen giving it a helping hand.

 

I have usually seen it with stepping off, rather than trying to stay on the boat, I think.

 

It is usually more successful[ with a motor] if you drop the stern line over the dolly on the side opposite to the gate post[ Better angle of dangle]I always stepped off the boat & started the gate off like in the video

[mykaskin]

Not sure if it will work, but an historic bit of video here of it been done:

 

 

Mike

[alan_fincher]

Not sure if it will work, but an historic bit of video here of it been done:

 

 

Mike

Yes, I was thinking of that one......

 

Except......

 

It seems to strike the bottom gates quite hard still, without having fully closed up at the top!

 

I'm sure I've seen videos of it done slicker than that!

[mykaskin]

Yes, I was thinking of that one......

 

Except......

 

It seems to strike the bottom gates quite hard still, without having fully closed up at the top!

 

I'm sure I've seen videos of it done slicker than that!

 

Not sure it does - but it's hard to see. There was quite a discussion about what actually happened in the comments.

 

Mike

[Athy]

This is something I have been tempted to try, but I can't see how the geometry would work. Was it regular practice for working boat crews?

[RLWP]

This is something I have been tempted to try, but I can't see how the geometry would work. Was it regular practice for working boat crews?

 

Some canals even modified the gates to make it easier. Hawkesbury stop lock is one:

 

 

Notice the bollards on the gate ends

 

Richard

[luctor et emergo]

Interesting

 

So how much force is put into the gate, when it gets jolted about, by 20 tons of momentum? Is here a great difference between the gate stopping a boat with a piece of rope, or by slamming into it?

 

And I presume that this should not be attempted in a wide lock?

[mykaskin]

Interesting

 

So how much force is put into the gate, when it gets jolted about, by 20 tons of momentum? Is here a great difference between the gate stopping a boat with a piece of rope, or by slamming into it?

 

And I presume that this should not be attempted in a wide lock?

 

The line is allowed to slip at first, slowing the boat gently and causes the gate to start swinging, and once the gate started tightened up while preferably at the same time the bottom paddles are lifted such that the boat is resting on the bottom gates, and the gate lightly bumps closed.

 

Mike

[alan_fincher]

Interesting

 

So how much force is put into the gate, when it gets jolted about, by 20 tons of momentum? Is here a great difference between the gate stopping a boat with a piece of rope, or by slamming into it?

 

And I presume that this should not be attempted in a wide lock?

If it is done properly, nothing suddenly gets those forces applied to it, (and momentum cannot be measured in "tons", of course), because you don't just drop a loop of inflexible rope over a strapping post, you wrap it around it, play it out, and let the forces be taken up slowly, getting a tighter and tighter grip only at the point the boat has lost most of its forward movement.

 

The clue is in the fact that the lumps on the ends of the gates are called "strapping posts", and are designed as an integral part of the gate, to be used in exactly this manner.

 

What scuppers it in many cases, is that modern reconstruction of the gates have been done in such a way that the required clearances are lost, or handrails get in the way.

 

As it is a fairly specialist skill, I'd not expect to see every boater attempt it, nor even to generally try it myself, but there is no reason to suppose that someone knowing what they are doing is in danger of damaging anything, because they are simply using equipment as it was designed to be used. If you are bringing a butty in, then it is not being done for show - it is being done precisely so you don't damage gates, as you have no brakes.

 

I'm not saying that none exist, but have you ever seen strapping posts on the tp gates of broad locks ? If there are none, and generally I think you'll find there will not be, then then I'd personally not attempt it!

[mykaskin]

I'm not saying that none exist, but have you ever seen strapping posts on the tp gates of broad locks ? If there are none, and generally I think you'll find there will not be, then then I'd personally not attempt it!

 

I'd say it was never done on wide gates, but I'm sure someone will be along to prove me wrong - actually I've done it myself off the handrail in extremis, but all wide locked used to have strapping posts in the correct place for slowing boats down - fewer and fewer are in place these days.

 

Mike

[pete harrison]

I only ever strap the top gate when on full length boats (I am never on anything shorter than 70'). I tend to not strap the top gate when on a butty as I do not like the strapping line going tight across the helm (damages paint / woodwork / dirties and loosens helm strings and belting). I always put the strapping line 'eye' on the dolly nearest to the gate but loop the line around the dolly on the off side to spread the load a little and get a better angle of pull on the gate. I step off the motor as soon as I can leaving it in forward gear slightly above tickover then take two turns around the strapping post let it slip a little which will reduce the motors speed as well as starting to close the gate (I do not start the gate closing when I can let the boat and the water do the work for me), then let it bite whilst I travel across the lock on the closing lock gate. All being well the fore end of the boat will touch the bottom gate just as the top gate is pulled fully closed. After placing the strapping line in coils onto the cabin slide (ready for the next lock) I then draw the bottom paddles although the top gate may have opened a little due to the turbulence of the propeller still turning. I rarely have anybody to draw the bottom paddles for me as I do not like boating mob handed - 3 handed with a pair is quite easy and should not be slow - 1 with the motor and 2 with the butty.

 

edit - I have just watched the 'RIBBLE' video and I would say that example is not a brilliant one.

Edited September 6, 2012 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

This is something I have been tempted to try, but I can't see how the geometry would work. Was it regular practice for working boat crews?

It was quite a common practice for working boat crews, but please bare in mind they knew what they were doing. If you are going to try this please watch your fingers and do not be too rough on either your boat, your ropes (which should be fairly substantial) or the lock gate. If you get it right you should be quite quick and your hanging plates should not clang together in the back cabin (or you ornaments should not fall off the shelves) whilst keeping your fingers and not breaking anything else.

[Smelly]

I strap in quite often when I'm single handed although if one lock won't play I'll write the flight off. It was how I was taught.

[NickF]

Surely you'd normally do it from on the boat rather than from on the bank/gate ?

 

I have tried it with success a couple of times. I stayed on the boat and took the strain gently on the gate so as not to "snatch" it with the full weight of the boat (which was going very slowly at the time). The rope needs to be tied onto the stern of the boat on the non gate side so there is enough outward force to start the gate moving in the correct direction.

There are a couple of other times when I have not done it because the gate is too rotten and I didn't want to risk it.

I hasten to add it is not my normal practice but I was just curious as to how it was done and if it worked.

Nick

[down the north]

I've hears descriptions of a technique where you close a top gate on a single lock by dropping a rope over the end post on the gate and the boat closes teh gate as it enters the lock. I've tried this without success can anyone explain how it should be done preferably with a link to a video

 

Thanks

 

TC

 

Hi , the vid of Ilford being strapped by me was good, not seen it before but the jist of it is to help the gate a bit, let the rope slip round the post as it goes, if you dont, the butty can come to an abrupt stop too early, so conservation of energy is needed in this operation. Once the gate is half way round, I lock the rope giving a direct pull by the butty and this then controls the butty when the gate is shut.

As pointed out elsewhere, a pull in line with the boat is pointless and will do nothing, but motor boats that have fenders pointing skyward are not strapping customers, as the strap gets hooked on the fenders , being attached to the opposite dolly. Another problem can be the fender eyes,that hook up the strap, so then we look at the strap size, make it big, inch and a quarter soft poly or nylon.

theres so many things that have to be just right for a polished performance, cheers, Martin

[David Schweizer]

I was taught how to strap more than forty years ago, but it wasn't exactly the same as shown in that Iford video. I dont remember us giving the gate any assistance, and it was usually done from the boat after the rope had been put on from the lockside. The rope was allowed to slip a bit round the strapping post at the beginning to get length of rope and the tension correct, however the strapping posts in those days were round, not square, so it was a much smoother operation. There is a video somewhere of it being done back in the 1960's but I cannot remember where it is, Laurence Hogg will probably know.

 

I haven't tried it for years, the last time I did it was at Sutton Stop, and the boat stalled in the lock, caused by an air lock in the fuel after I had just changed the fuel filter, and nothing to do with the strapping operation, but it didn't look like that to the bystanders. The engine would not re-start and I had to unceremoniously bow haul the boat out, very humiliating!

[Bobbybass]

I watched this YouTube video and was impressed...but oneday..he's gonna slip off that gate..and the gate is gonna shut with him in it !!!...squish...

 

(Always look on the bright...side of life)