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IWA Calls For Action On 'Continuous Moorers'


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IWA Calls For Action On 'Continuous Moorers'

 

With the successful launch of Canal & River Trust, IWA has been reviewing its campaigning priorities. Whilst inclusion of the Environment Agency's navigations within CRT remains the top priority the issue of so called 'continuous moorers' is fast climbing IWA's priority action list.

 

IWA is very supportive of those who wish to live aboard their boat, and indeed for those genuine continuous cruisers who travel the system in a progressive journey. However problems are caused when large numbers of live-aboard boaters without a home mooring wish, for whatever reason, to stay within a narrow geographic area. The problems had been exacerbated by years of enforcement neglect by British Waterways.

 

A recent survey by BW indicated that over a six-month period around 1000 boats without a home mooring did not move more than 5km and a further 1000 boats not more than 10km.

 

The situation in the London area and also at the west end of the Kennet & Avon canal is acute. IWA has now raised its concerns at the highest level within CRT. At a recent meeting with Sally Ash (CRT Head of Boating) these concerns were explored in detail together with her plans to tackle the situation. IWA is not alone in having concerns with other organisations, including the trade, demanding action.

Read it here IWA

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I remeber mentioning that I smelled a rat, when the nominations, and voting, for the 'boaters representatives' was happing earlier in the year. I rember predicting, that all four 'representatives' would be IWA members.

 

I was right.

 

 

I now predict, that the IWA 'representatives' are not going to represent us, boaters, but are going to push the C&RT agenda.

 

This may be a prudent time, for live aboard boaters, who don't live in a floating caravan park, to band together. Literally. It's hard to remove a boat, when it's tied to another boat...

 

Excitng times appear ahead.

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But if you kept to the rules......why would this worry you?

Is 10km not a reasonable distance every 14 days...then another 10km 14 days later (In the same direction - not back again)

I think they were actually saying that the boats didn't move more than 10km in the six month period - not every 14 days

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But if you kept to the rules......why would this worry you?

Is 10km not a reasonable distance every 14 days...then another 10km 14 days later (In the same direction - not back again)

 

Where do you get the 10km every 14 days from? I certainly do not intend to travel 10km over the next 14 days

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It's simple. Fit a tracking device, make it conditional on the CC licence. No tracker, no licence. A simple tracking recorder not transmitter that can be read if it's suspected someone is not using the CC licence properly.

 

Tin hat, coat and popcorn at the ready.

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Good post Ally.

 

I cannot help but feel that most cruisers are much younger than the boaters which are against them, boating is a very expensive hobby if you don't live onboard, making it unaffordable to most.

 

I wonder if the IWA realises it is alienating what could be its future supporters? Cruisers love the waterways too, you know, perhaps if people spoke to them instead of fearing them, they might realise that.

 

We are in the middle of a user groups consultation in London (had my latest interview with a community organiser yesterday).

 

To say that nothing is being done is just not true. I just find IWA's announcement and stance really unhelpful. It's going to do nothing except create more bad feeling, I can sense it just from reading this forum since the announcement was made.

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perhaps the RBA is a body to join and 'band together' through. Seems the most obvious way to me.

There was recent discussion in the House of Lords about distance and time for CC'ers, but they were talking about, IIRC, 30 miles in a licence period.

I feel that many CC'ers here are the retired and slightly more well off boaters, who are the ones that often will speak so harshly about so called CM'ers. It is worth remembering there is also a large group of very much less well off liveaboards, where often one person needs to be working. They perhaps can't afford a floating village marina mooring, but still need to be within striking distance of work. Or need to get children into some kind of stable schooling. Or have medical needs and require continuing care from a single team.....and so forth.

Personally I have sympathy for such people. I appreciate CM'ers can cause mooring difficulties in the higher populated areas, and I also appreciate it is 'against the rules' currently, but either way such people exist and have needs, who are we to say they may not live their lives in such a manner.

Most liveaboards love their boats...we all live under different circumstances....lets have some understanding for our fellow liveaboards, who's circumstances we rarely know fully, rather than supporting a witch hunt of CM'ers for the sake of it.

 

Greenie for Ally.

 

As I said on the other thread, there are FAR FAR more serious issues that the IWA should be addressing as a focus of it's membership.

Maintenance, funding shortfall, investment etc are far more likely to stop their shiny boats leaving their marinas for their 2 week holiday in the future than a few boats here and there. In the winter months, it is mainly the CC'ers and CM'ers who provide the eyes and ears for CaRT.

As a CC'er with a pretty good track record of cruising, I have no issue with someone who is tied to a particular location. I do get suprised that some boats never move and nothing seems to be done, but others get notices when they do not deserve them.

A friend of mine was recently told he had been at Willoughby (nr Braunston) for 4 months without moving(according to the boat checkers)....I fitted his kitchen and plumbing out at a variety of locations including Braunston, Napton, Stockton top over an 8 week period....and there are 3 boats at Stockton Top which have been there since March with no checker visits.

The election was to represent ALL boaters, I only see the IWA getting it's voice heard on the council.

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If we take this to its logical conclusion we would be saying that for those people with similar issues, who live in bricks and mortar,dont need pay their Council Tax / electricity / etc and they dont need to tax their car which they use to take the children to school.

 

Who are we to say that they may not live their lives in such a manner ?

 

Just because someone "WANTS" to liveaboard doesnt mean that they should ignore the rules obeyed by the rest - if they did have bricks and mortar they would probably get a great deal more financial assistance to help them.

 

I "WANT" lots of things that would make my life more pleasurable but if I cannot afford them I dont have them. There is a big difference between want & need.

I beg to disagree. I'm not saying they shouldn't be licenced, or pay for their fuel etc. This is purely about moving distances. If someone has circumstances that call for them to be within an area for good reason, but are still moving over a perhaps shorter distance back and fore, I for one have no problem with that. I am not suggesting they moor themselves permanently somewhere for free, merely that some are realistically not able to A) afford a marina, and B ) make continuing progress through the system for a variety of reasons.

Edited by Ally
  • Greenie 1
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It's simple. Fit a tracking device, make it conditional on the CC licence. No tracker, no licence. A simple tracking recorder not transmitter that can be read if it's suspected someone is not using the CC licence properly.

 

Tin hat, coat and popcorn at the ready.

 

Fantastic idea!!! Maybe us CCers should also be fitted with an ASBO devise to ensure we do not wander to far from the canal, oh and maybe a bit of Community Service at weekends.

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There is a big difference between want & need.

People need shelter. Today squatting will be outlawed. Even in skanky old Tottenham you will pay about £1000 a month for a flat, in a very rough area, but like the rest of us you stay in the capital because you can get work here, even in a recession.

 

I hear the argument, 'oh but I would LOVE to live in Alderley Edge but I can't afford to.' Go on, ask most Tottenham residents if they want to live in Tottenham. :captain:

 

If you want to try renting private sector in the capital if you've no prior references or you're self employed, then good luck to you. If you're really lucky you might manage two years, before the landlord sells, then you have to move on again. That's no way to live. done it, bought the t shirt.

 

If you want a council flat, then the waiting list here was 880,000 two years ago, who knows what it is now?

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/national-housing-federation/article/nhf-social-housing-waiting-lists-rise-in-22-london-boroughs-

 

It's the main reason I'm on a boat. Call me a freeloader, whatever you like. I do not care. I pay my taxes.

 

I await the increase in squat camps, tents, houses made out of pallets, in trees, in burnt out old pubs, in the space under the flyover, (as if we haven't got enough of that here in the first place).

 

All this moaning about Cmers will not change anything, I've got a better idea, you are barking up the wrong tree. How about we lobby the goverment for something radical like they have in Germany, you know fixed rents, longer tenancies, then we might be onto something.

 

You're getting angry at the wrong people - housing should be about shelter, not making an investment or a profit, we've made a right mess of things here in the UK.

Edited by Lady Muck
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Greenie for Ally.

 

As I said on the other thread, there are FAR FAR more serious issues that the IWA should be addressing as a focus of it's membership.

Maintenance, funding shortfall, investment etc are far more likely to stop their shiny boats leaving their marinas for their 2 week holiday in the future than a few boats here and there. In the winter months, it is mainly the CC'ers and CM'ers who provide the eyes and ears for CaRT.

As a CC'er with a pretty good track record of cruising, I have no issue with someone who is tied to a particular location. I do get suprised that some boats never move and nothing seems to be done, but others get notices when they do not deserve them.

A friend of mine was recently told he had been at Willoughby (nr Braunston) for 4 months without moving(according to the boat checkers)....I fitted his kitchen and plumbing out at a variety of locations including Braunston, Napton, Stockton top over an 8 week period....and there are 3 boats at Stockton Top which have been there since March with no checker visits.

The election was to represent ALL boaters, I only see the IWA getting it's voice heard on the council.

 

 

 

 

I want both of course I would like the prime focus to be on infrastructure rather than creating a linear residential park. I have no issue with the shiny boat brigade in fact I hope that they only come out for 2 weeks a year as they through license and mooring fees are effectively subsidising the rest of us. There will always those with "special" needs so the discussion should be around should it be CRT's responsibility to house them somewhere on the towpath whilst the council etc provides financial support. The housing of these boats and provision of facilities will of course mean that further costs will be diverted from the infrastructure that Matty wants investment in. So one way or another these issues are linked and need resolving.

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It's simple. Fit a tracking device, make it conditional on the CC licence. No tracker, no licence. A simple tracking recorder not transmitter that can be read if it's suspected someone is not using the CC licence properly.

 

Tin hat, coat and popcorn at the ready.

 

 

Not an idea I relish, far too much like big brother for my tastes BUT if it were implimented then in my experience all boats would need fitting with the trackers, some of the (so called) offenders in my area have the equivalent of paper moorings and seem to enjoy immunity from the rare, at the moment, patrol officers.

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Greenie for Ally.

 

As I said on the other thread, there are FAR FAR more serious issues that the IWA should be addressing as a focus of it's membership.

Maintenance, funding shortfall, investment etc are far more likely to stop their shiny boats leaving their marinas for their 2 week holiday in the future than a few boats here and there. In the winter months, it is mainly the CC'ers and CM'ers who provide the eyes and ears for CaRT.

As a CC'er with a pretty good track record of cruising, I have no issue with someone who is tied to a particular location. I do get suprised that some boats never move and nothing seems to be done, but others get notices when they do not deserve them.

A friend of mine was recently told he had been at Willoughby (nr Braunston) for 4 months without moving(according to the boat checkers)....I fitted his kitchen and plumbing out at a variety of locations including Braunston, Napton, Stockton top over an 8 week period....and there are 3 boats at Stockton Top which have been there since March with no checker visits.

The election was to represent ALL boaters, I only see the IWA getting it's voice heard on the council.

Your post seems to suggest that the IWA is only concentrating on this CC/CMer issue and nothing else. The IWA has many programmes and plans. In my area (Northampton) it is doing several practical things to help the system such as helping with volunteers for certain maintenance and litter clearing tasks to take care of the waterways. It is campaigning for other key things too and via WRG funding and getting stuck into new restoration projects. A very high proportion of members are boaters so if the IWA do not act in the interests of the membership they will lose membership subs.

 

IWA is not the enemy here. For some the idea of tackling CC/CMers is offensive and for others there is concern over an increasing problem in certain places.

 

Personally I don't see it as a big problem in my area but I might think differently if I was on the K&A for example. I also think more needs to be done for those who are in a poverty trap where they find themselves outside the system living on boats, they need help. I have no sympathy for CMers who ignore the rules and have an attitude of won't pay rather than can't pay.

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It's simple. Fit a tracking device, make it conditional on the CC licence. No tracker, no licence. A simple tracking recorder not transmitter that can be read if it's suspected someone is not using the CC licence properly.

 

Tin hat, coat and popcorn at the ready.

 

'Oi, Mate. You going up to the end of the cut? Take me tracker with you, would ya?'

 

Richard

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Firstly let me say - I completely agree that the canal infrastructure should be a priority.

 

I have absolutely no complaints about CC'ers who abide by the 'rules' (whatever todays interpretation of the rules are) but - 'freeloaders' who abuse the system are no better than those allegedly 'on the sick' who are caught out working on building sites etc.

 

There have been a number of threads on here about claiming HB, let those who are CC'mers and cannot afford a mooring move into a marina / mooring and get the HB and any other entitlements they can. - No problem with that its their legal right.

 

Maybe we will just have to agree to differ - Law breakers should be punished, not encouraged.

 

You're getting angry at the wrong people - housing should be about shelter, not making an investment or a profit, we've made a right mess of things here in the UK

Would not disagree with these sentiments - however, we are not talking about institutions or private companies 'ripping off' tenants we are talking about CM'ers claiming to be CC'ers

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Ally gets a 'greenie' from me for an excellent, and thoughtful post.

 

Now where has this 10km come from?, I thought our canals were built in miles, measured in miles, and signposted in miles. Therefore 10km (or any other metric measurement) is invalid when applied to canals, and must be ignored as completely meaningless.

 

How come the IWA got 4 members on the committee?, I suggest they were supported in like party political animals, against any independent. I did say there was no chance of an independent getting elected when this whole issue started off.

 

This whole CCer issue, surely is not that important, there must be 50 other topics that need addressing first?.

 

Gripe over, but I side with Ally on this one.

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To illustrate a point, here are two piccies I took this week.

 

The first one is a priority to boaters, and the second is a priority to the IWA.

 

Barrow flood sluices - now non operational (smelly posted a piccy of the cracked brickwork and concrete above recently). CaRT operations team (in suits)turned up and had to borrow a tape measure off a boater. The repairs visible were made, and nothing else can be done as "there's no money available". If these give way in times of flood, there will be a real mess.

10012000248.jpg

 

Two boats, have been moored here for 3 years that I know of. Most people probably don't know they are there. IWA want action against people like this.

 

10012000256.jpg

 

Priorities eh...

 

 

oh, and we had a fantastic time out canooeing!!

Edited by matty40s
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People need shelter. Today squatting will be outlawed. Even in skanky old Tottenham you will pay about £1000 a month for a flat, in a very rough area, but like the rest of us you stay in the capital because you can get work here, even in a recession.

 

I hear the argument, 'oh but I would LOVE to live in Alderley Edge but I can't afford to.' Go on, ask most Tottenham residents if they want to live in Tottenham. :captain:

 

If you want to try renting private sector in the capital if you've no prior references or you're self employed, then good luck to you. If you're really lucky you might manage two years, before the landlord sells, then you have to move on again. That's no way to live. done it, bought the t shirt.

 

If you want a council flat, then the waiting list here was 880,000 two years ago, who knows what it is now?

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/national-housing-federation/article/nhf-social-housing-waiting-lists-rise-in-22-london-boroughs-

 

It's the main reason I'm on a boat. Call me a freeloader, whatever you like. I do not care. I pay my taxes.

 

I await the increase in squat camps, tents, houses made out of pallets, in trees, in burnt out old pubs, in the space under the flyover, (as if we haven't got enough of that here in the first place).

 

All this moaning about Cmers will not change anything, I've got a better idea, you are barking up the wrong tree. How about we lobby the goverment for something radical like they have in Germany, you know fixed rents, longer tenancies, then we might be onto something.

 

You're getting angry at the wrong people - housing should be about shelter, not making an investment or a profit, we've made a right mess of things here in the UK.

 

 

 

CRT hopefully is a charity and not an action group for a change in housing policy. I don't call you a freeloader at all.

 

I guess by extension however you are advocating that we all choose to disregard the rules and laws that we don't think should apply to us. Guess once residential moorings are created on the Lea at commercial rates that some can afford but others on boats can't the problem will remain as it is now.

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I guess by extension however you are advocating that we all choose to disregard the rules and laws that we don't think should apply to us.

Eh? where did you get that idea? <Intrigued>

 

I think we should be lobbying the government for affordable housing first and foremost. Until they do something the housing crisis will only continue to get worse and the overspill onto the canals will continue to increase.

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Eh? where did you get that idea? <Intrigued>

 

I think we should be lobbying the government for affordable housing first and foremost. Until they do something the housing crisis will only continue to get worse and the overspill onto the canals will continue to increase.

 

Worth a greeny, but . . .

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