Sheffield-sized boats

[Max Sinclair]

Thanks for the photos Carl and Tim. Looking through old copies of Slabline (Humber Keel & Sloop Soc newsletter), Guidance seems to have been a hotel boat on the Thames around 1975. I took the photos below on Hayling Island in 1979/81 of what appears to be a Norfolk wherry. Several were taken to Portsmouth in the Napoleonic period, though I can't really see this as being one of them.

 

 

 

 

 

The above were taken in 1979, with the same boat two years later;

 

The 'Wherry. is reputed to be a Droitwich Salt barge that sailed around Lands End with a cargo for the fishing industry prior to 1916.It looks similar to the new Hereford Bull Trow.Drotwich Salt Trade collapsed in 1916 and no doubt there were desperate attempts to obtain some trade.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Max Sinclair

[Max Sinclair]

I assume the Sheffield sized boats took part in the ill- fated BACAT scheme, and as such did they carry traffic across the channel to the European network? The Barge aboard plan was sadly opposed by the Hull dockers, which led to the project being stopped. It is one of a group of cases where a Trade Union hoping to protect work for its members destroyed work for others, and eventually lost jobs for its own members. The establishment of the rail service Freighliners might have gone a similar way, when unions insisted on "closed" depots (that is where only railway union men (NUR) drove the freighliner road transport), whereas the BRB wanted "open" depots where there was freedom for union or non union men to deliver or collect from the depot. Once Freighliners were transferred out of the Rail Industry, the Rail Uniona lost their advantage and Freighliners came have an increasing importance in UK transport.

 

Ray Shill

Exactly the same with the Motor Industry and Rubery Owen, John Thompson and Sankeys. Manufacturers couldn't wait while the Unions had their stupid job destroying strikes.

[SandyNairne]

I owned M V Ethelwood, for five years, in the early 80s (pictured now at Shoreham) and moored then at Battersea Bridge on the Thames. I can confirm that she is a Dunston built Sheffield size keel - 1951.

 

Let me know if you want more details or images of her then - snairne@npg.org.uk

 

Sandy Nairne (San

[bargemast]

Hello Sandy,

 

it would be very nice, to see some pictures of Ethelwood during the period you've owned her.

 

I do like these Sheffield size keels.

 

Thanks,

 

Peter.

[wren]

To add to the list, I have just purchased Goodwill (Harkers of Knottingley, 1953) and I note that Onward, sister ship to Forward is up fpr sale somewhere down south. (The listing suggests that she's been shortened.)

 

Goodwill has a sister ship, Good Luck, according to this list: http://www.knottingley.org/history/harkerbuilt1.htm

(number 259 and 260). Anyone know where Good Luck is?

[bargemast]

To add to the list, I have just purchased Goodwill (Harkers of Knottingley, 1953) and I note that Onward, sister ship to Forward is up fpr sale somewhere down south. (The listing suggests that she's been shortened.)

 

Goodwill has a sister ship, Good Luck, according to this list: http://www.knottingley.org/history/harkerbuilt1.htm

(number 259 and 260). Anyone know where Good Luck is?

 

Hello wren,

 

despite the fact that you have never bothered to answer my PM's I congratulate you with the purchase of your Sheffield sized boat "Goodwill".

 

Peter.

[Mick and Maggie]

So far, the list of boats I am fairly sure still survive includes, with date and builder, and current location:

 

Victory Harkers Rotherham

 

 

Victory a recent purchase by the new owner from Waddingtons is now moored at Eastwood and currently being refurbished.

I could grab a few photos if needed.

Mick

.

[carlt]

 

Victory a recent purchase by the new owner from Waddingtons is now moored at Eastwood and currently being refurbished.

I could grab a few photos if needed.

Mick

.

Recent?

 

Has Sean sold it then?

 

He bought it from Waddingtons about 8 years ago and has completely refurbished the hull.

[Jastheram]

Am new to the site and am interested in trent/ upper trent keels which i believe were upto 71x14 foot and am interested in aquiring/building something similar have seen juno1 in london not sure of size but hull has nice lines although looks in poor condition.

Anyone know the whereabouts of any similar barges or have any history lessons

Regards

Jason

[Pluto]

Am new to the site and am interested in trent/ upper trent keels which i believe were upto 71x14 foot and am interested in aquiring/building something similar have seen juno1 in london not sure of size but hull has nice lines although looks in poor condition.

Anyone know the whereabouts of any similar barges or have any history lessons

Regards

Jason

Have a trip to Goole, where there are quite a few boats of various sizes tied up. Some are quite likely for sale.

[carlt]

 

Anyone know the whereabouts of any similar barges or have any history lessons

 

Also could be worth asking at Waddingtons, in Swinton....if they haven't finished with the gas axe yet.

Edited September 6, 2013 by carlt

[Guest]

Have a trip to Goole, where there are quite a few boats of various sizes tied up. Some are quite likely for sale.

 

Wot he said....

 

Taken a couple of weeks ago-

 

[Giant]

 

Wot he said....

 

Taken a couple of weeks ago-

 

 

I had been wondering around the same time you took this, which boat the keel in the foreground was - looked to me to be about Sheffield sized but nobody around at the museum knew. On returning last Saturday though, it had a roughly made sign on the side of the wheelhouse naming it as "THE FLOSS", and has a couple of people cleaning up and painting it.

[Guest]

 

I had been wondering around the same time you took this, which boat the keel in the foreground was - looked to me to be about Sheffield sized but nobody around at the museum knew. On returning last Saturday though, it had a roughly made sign on the side of the wheelhouse naming it as "THE FLOSS", and has a couple of people cleaning up and painting it.

 

The Floss on the Historic Ship register

 

A Humber Keel it seems... and for sale too.

 

A snip at £27.5K??

 

http://www.alanpease.co.uk/boats/floss.htm

Edited September 10, 2013 by The Dog House

[John V]

Sabina H 1929 (?) Dunstons(?) Used as a coastal tanker by P. Horlock of Mistley in 60's now on Thames estuary

[Giant]

Another one for the list:

 

Unitan, built 1950 at Paull, now at Tower Bridge.

 

http://www.towerbridgemoorings.co.uk/2010/05/16/unitan/

[goober]

Hello all this is my first post on here. I own valiant and as the updated list shows she is indeed in Rotherham and her year of build is also correct at 1959 by Hepworth's at paul. I've read a good bit of this tread and going back to the very beginning where it talks about wey I can throw some more info on her. She was indeed section 8ed and was taken to Goole from Nottingham during spring/summer of 2013. A friend of mine has since brought her and we used my barge valiant to tow her from Goole to Rotherham in September 2013. Also on our moorings we have noe and number 9 which are also Sheffield size.

 

I'd just like to update the list also

Just to bring the list up-to-date:

 

Number 9 1927? Rotherham

 

Agenda London

 

Alison mona Rotherham

 

Amy Howson 1914 J Scarr, Beverley South Ferriby

Beecliffe 1925 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Poplar Dock

Charles William 1924 J. Scarr, Beverley Cowley, GUC

Comrade 1923 Warrens, New Holland South Ferriby

Danum Rich. Dunston, Thorne France

Daybreak 1934 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Thames

Drake Falmouth

Dritan 1950c Hepworth, Paull Brixham?

Elspeth May 1951 Rich. Dunston, Thorne London?

Enterprise 1957 Hepworth, Paull

Ethelwood 1950c Rich. Dunston, Thorne Shoreham?

Ferncliffe 1925 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Medway

Forward 1954 John Harker's Poplar Dock

Guidance 1905 Stainforth Shoreham (wood construction)

Goodwill

Harlequin

Heritage 1957/8 Waddingtons Swinton?

Hope 1908 J Scarr, Beverley River Thames

Kama 1903 Gainsborough GermanyGermany

 

Lightcliffe 1927 thames or Medway?

 

Lys 1937 Henry Scarr Ltd Belgium/Netherlands

Mimo Belgium

 

Neo 1938?

 

Nidd 1937 Henry Scarr Ltd Belgium

 

Noe 1938 Rotherham

 

Onesimus 1913 Joseph Scarr, Bev. Keadby

Orotan (James & Mary)1950c Hepworth, Paull Ireland

Pioneer 1910 Gainsborough Stainforth

Reliance Thames?

 

Resolute 1959 Hepworth's Paull

 

Riccall France

Richard

Sara

Sectan 1950c Hepworth, Paull Beverley

Service 1957 Hepworth, Paull

Sheaf Wakefield

Shirecliffe 1923 London

Sobriety 1911 Joseph Scarr, Beverley Goole

Southcliffe 1923 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Goole

Spider T 1926 Warrens, New Holland Keadby

Swift 1894 Joseph Scarr, Beverley Wakefield

Syntan 1949 Hepworth, Paull Beverley

Thomas H 1940 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Staines

Victory Harkers Rotherham

Valiant 1959 Hepworth, Paull Rotherham

 

Wey 1937 Henry Scarr (Dunstons) Rotherham

 

 

Has anybody any ideas on where resolute has ended up she's the sister to valiant and kinda step sister to enterprise and service who were both built 2 years earlier at Hepworth's paull.

 

Cheers Goober

[matk]

I spent yesterday with various surveyors, boat builders, welders etc gazing through various holes in the hull of my recently purchased and very recently grit blasted, Sheffield sized keel, Drake at present in dry dock in Falmouth. Does anyone here know any of its history. I have been told she was built in Doncaster in 1912. I have also been told she was originally a "Barnsley Barge", which would have been longer, but there seems to be no sign that she has been cut down. She measures 60 feet ten inches by 14 feet ten.

I know very little more than that apart from that he was brought down to Falmouth from Waddingtons some 7 or 8 years ago

[magnetman]

Is it this one?

 

http://www.londontideway.com/boats-drake.html

 

I guess the 5.8m beam was an error if it is.

 

Nice boat

[Giant]

I spent yesterday with various surveyors, boat builders, welders etc gazing through various holes in the hull of my recently purchased and very recently grit blasted, Sheffield sized keel, Drake at present in dry dock in Falmouth. Does anyone here know any of its history. I have been told she was built in Doncaster in 1912. I have also been told she was originally a "Barnsley Barge", which would have been longer, but there seems to be no sign that she has been cut down. She measures 60 feet ten inches by 14 feet ten.

I know very little more than that apart from that he was brought down to Falmouth from Waddingtons some 7 or 8 years ago

 

That is an odd size for a keel, and makes her not really a Sheffield size. Are you sure the 14'10" width is accurate?

 

Fred Schofield's book Humber Keels and Keelmen lists the following sizes (p. 274):

 

West Country 57' 6" x 14'2"

Sheffield 61'6" x 15'6"

Manvers, Wath, Dearn & Dove 57'6" x 14'8"

Barnsley 70' x 14'4"

Driffield 61' x 14'6"

Weighton 66' x 14'6"

Lincoln 74' x 14'4"

Trent 74' x 14'4"

Horncastle 54' x 14'4"

Louth 72' x 15'

 

All of these were constrained by the smallest locks on each waterway. The boats were usually built to serve a particular one, and sized to maximise load on that route.

 

If it wasn't for the beam being a few inches over 14'4", I'd have guessed she was designed to be able to navigate a wider range of the network rather than achieving the biggest possible load for a single canal.

[FadeToScarlet]

Out of interest, do keels tend to spread like narrowboats, or do they have more substantial framing and the deck keeping them within gauge?

[Pluto]

Wooden short boats did tend to spread if left empty for a while, though their cross beams were designed more to hold the sides apart when loaded. The aft one was removable on general cargo boats to allow large items to be carried, and normally just wedged in place. I would expect keels to be the same, though most of those which survived into the 70s and 80s and I have looked at were in the coal trade, where there was no need for removable cross beams.

[Timleech]

Steel keels have wide side decks, which along with the hatch coamings will add a lot of strength and stiffness.

I'm pretty sure that both of the cross beams in the Beecliffe were fixed in place, and the mast beam was quite substantial.

 

Tim

[Giant]

Steel keels have wide side decks, which along with the hatch coamings will add a lot of strength and stiffness.

I'm pretty sure that both of the cross beams in the Beecliffe were fixed in place, and the mast beam was quite substantial.

 

Ours was built with cross beams, but they were cut out to allow her to load railway track straight into the hold.

 

She might have spread a little - I tried to measure across the top with a pole and some eyeballing once and it seemed closer to 15'8" than 15'6". But I also heard a story that Victor Waddington went round all the locks with a tape measure and then ordered her two inches wider so she could haul an extra ton.

[matk]

 

That is an odd size for a keel, and makes her not really a Sheffield size. Are you sure the 14'10" width is accurate?

 

Fred Schofield's book Humber Keels and Keelmen lists the following sizes (p. 274):

 

West Country 57' 6" x 14'2"

Sheffield 61'6" x 15'6"

Manvers, Wath, Dearn & Dove 57'6" x 14'8"

Barnsley 70' x 14'4"

Driffield 61' x 14'6"

Weighton 66' x 14'6"

Lincoln 74' x 14'4"

Trent 74' x 14'4"

Horncastle 54' x 14'4"

Louth 72' x 15'

 

All of these were constrained by the smallest locks on each waterway. The boats were usually built to serve a particular one, and sized to maximise load on that route.

 

If it wasn't for the beam being a few inches over 14'4", I'd have guessed she was designed to be able to navigate a wider range of the network rather than achieving the biggest possible load for a single canal.

Thank you for this and I apologise for my mistake, I got my conversion from metres to feet and inches wrong. According to the surveyor's report she is 18.6 metres...61 feet... by 4.65 metres near enough 15 feet 3 inches which at least indicates she wasn't a Barnsley barge. I was also told that she was a sister ship to the Grenville, but that could be wrong too.