Sheffield-sized boats

[carlt]

I think "Ethelwood", at Shoreham, is Sheffield size, but am not 100% sure.

[bargemast]

No immediate help, probably a red herring as it may be long gone by now, but I remember seeing one in a Dutch boat/shipyard which had been hacked about and was in use as a sort of 'match truck' to support the jib of a floating crane! It was well over 30 years ago that I saw it, & haven't a clue now as to where the yard was.

 

Edit - maybe Bargemast knows the yard? All I can remember is that I think it was just above a lock, & not on one of the bigger navigations!

 

Tim

 

 

I'm sorry to say that I've really no idea where this may be, as you know there are lots of waterways in tiny little Holland.

 

The only Sheffield size barge that I remember having seen in Holland was "Beecliffe" in the Oosterdok in Amsterdam in I think '73.

 

Peter.

[Timleech]

I'm sorry to say that I've really no idea where this may be, as you know there are lots of waterways in tiny little Holland.

 

The only Sheffield size barge that I remember having seen in Holland was "Beecliffe" in the Oosterdok in Amsterdam in I think '73.

 

Peter.

 

It would have been '75.

 

Tim

[bargemast]

It would have been '75.

 

Tim

 

 

I'm sure you're right, the Oosterdok was my home-port until I left for France July 7, '79 for an extended holiday, and I never went back

 

 

 

 

 

After having gone a bit deeper into my memories, another Sheffield sized Keel reappeared, the "LYS".

 

 

 

I have no idea where she is now, but she used to cruise through Holland and Belgium in the late 70's and 80's.

 

 

 

A very well known man in the UK canal trading business named Michael Streat, was involved in the project running a fleet of hotel-barges owned by an American millionaire, of which "LYS" was one.

 

 

 

She was sort of abandonned for many years laying in Gent-B and later became the accomodation for a team of workers at a shipyard in Zelzate-B where they were converting a 38m barge into an hotel-barge.

 

 

 

I found a newspaper article about her here : http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19781114&id=O2JQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4lgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6027,4017742

 

Peter.

[Timleech]

I'm sure you're right, the Oosterdok was my home-port until I left for France July 7, '79 for an extended holiday, and I never went back

 

 

 

 

 

After having gone a bit deeper into my memories, another Sheffield sized Keel reappeared, the "LYS".

 

 

 

I have no idea where she is now, but she used to cruise through Holland and Belgium in the late 70's and 80's.

 

 

 

A very well known man in the UK canal trading business named Michael Streat, was involved in the project running a fleet of hotel-barges owned by an American millionaire, of which "LYS" was one.

 

 

 

She was sort of abandonned for many years laying in Gent-B and later became the accomodation for a team of workers at a shipyard in Zelzate-B where they were converting a 38m barge into an hotel-barge.

 

 

 

I found a newspaper article about her here : http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19781114&id=O2JQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4lgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6027,4017742

 

Peter.

 

I remember hearing of that one, and seeing pictures which I seem to remember looked rather hideous, never saw it in the flesh, so to speak.

 

Tim

[bargemast]

I remember hearing of that one, and seeing pictures which I seem to remember looked rather hideous, never saw it in the flesh, so to speak.

 

Tim

 

 

If all is well, I should have a brochure somewhere with a photo of "LYS" as a twin-deck hotel-barge, I'll try to find it and hope that once found my temperamental scanner is willing to scan the brochure, if not I have to find someone who can scan the picture for me.

 

It may take a while, but it will be posted.

 

Peter.

[bargemast]

Managed to find the brochure quicker then expected, but my scanner didn't want to cooperate, and I had no elsewhere, so in the end I just took a few photo's, 1 of the page, that's not very clear, and 1 with only the "LYS" which should be a bit better, and gives at least an idea of what she looked like in 1981.

 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

 

Peter.

Edited August 6, 2012 by bargemast

[Timleech]

Managed to find the brochure quicker then expected, but my scanner didn't want to cooperate, and I had no elsewhere, so in the end I just took a few photo's, 1 of the page, that's not very clear, and 1 with only the "LYS" which should be a bit better, and gives at least an idea of what she looked like in 1981.

 

 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

 

Peter.

 

That fits with my recollection, hideously impractical!

 

Tim

[bargemast]

That fits with my recollection, hideously impractical!

 

Tim

 

 

She sure wasn't what you can call pretty, but I think that she was the first hotel-barge made for the American market, with private facillities in every cabin already, which was the sort of comfort that the Yankees needed.

 

If I'm ever near Zelzate, I will ask at the ship yard if they know what happened to her later.

 

Peter.

[flatplane8]

Hi,

 

Not Sheffield sized, but we own 'Misterton' a Lincoln keel (see here).

 

Now based in Staines.

 

Simon

[fanshaft]

Hi,

 

Not Sheffield sized, but we own 'Misterton' a Lincoln keel (see here).

 

Now based in Staines.

 

Simon

 

Hi Simon,

 

I remember Misteron very well when owned and operated by Les Hill. Lincoln size was also the maximum size for the Selby Canal and in the 1970s Les was carrying wheat from Whitley Bridge to Selby for BOCM, a traffic which was later restarted using Leeds & Liverpool Short boats. Misterton also occasionally worked for me carrying aggregate to York (Walkers) and other 'freights' as we called them. I once asked les to tale a load of wire from Goole to Nottingham, but he hesitated saying 'they say it's a long way to Nottingham'! In the end his son did it using 'Green One'!

 

regards

 

David L

[flatplane8]

Hi Simon,

 

I remember Misteron very well when owned and operated by Les Hill. Lincoln size was also the maximum size for the Selby Canal and in the 1970s Les was carrying wheat from Whitley Bridge to Selby for BOCM, a traffic which was later restarted using Leeds & Liverpool Short boats. Misterton also occasionally worked for me carrying aggregate to York (Walkers) and other 'freights' as we called them. I once asked les to tale a load of wire from Goole to Nottingham, but he hesitated saying 'they say it's a long way to Nottingham'! In the end his son did it using 'Green One'!

 

regards

 

David L

 

Hi David

 

Good to hear, we still have the old registration document from 1948, and Les Hill is the last named owner. We've re-registered her as a British ship, home port is still Hull. I've got copy of the book Les wrote, sounds like she had a varied career, as your recollections confirm.

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[Timleech]

No immediate help, probably a red herring as it may be long gone by now, but I remember seeing one in a Dutch boat/shipyard which had been hacked about and was in use as a sort of 'match truck' to support the jib of a floating crane! It was well over 30 years ago that I saw it, & haven't a clue now as to where the yard was.

 

Edit - maybe Bargemast knows the yard? All I can remember is that I think it was just above a lock, & not on one of the bigger navigations!

 

Tim

 

I asked Bill Greenhalgh, because I had a feeling he had been there at the time & is a bit more organised than I am about keeping records.

 

Here's the gist of his reply:-

"Your memory is amazing and you've had me racking my brains for several days. I now have the

answers:

 

Yes, I was there.

The boatyard was the Jachtwerf Jongbert BV in Medemblick, just above the lock down into the

Wieringermeer Polder.

I took two photos when we were there in August 1984 en route from Freisland to Haarlem and

Neeroteren.

The first photo (PICT0153) is of the bows which show it was definitely a Sheffield-type keel.

The second photo (PICT0154) is actually of the steamtug "Noordzee" which was moored behind it,

but on the right-hand side of the photo you can see what I'm sure was the stern of the keel. As

you remembered it had been cut in half and converted to carry a crane jib."

 

 

 

 

 

Both pics copyright Bill Greenhalgh

 

Bill reports that he has also seen (and photographed) the RICCALL at Aigues Mortes in the last few months.

 

Tim

Edited August 19, 2012 by Timleech

[egret]

Yes she's definitely a West Country Keel.

 

Is Egret Sheffield size and originally Furley & Co?

Egret is a converted lighter from the river hull, dimensions 63 feet by 17 foot 6 inches constructed by Joseph Scarrs of Beverley made of iron in 1905.Owners being originally D. Hurtley Flour Millers, Akesters, Waddingtons and myself.

[Heartland]

I assume the Sheffield sized boats took part in the ill- fated BACAT scheme, and as such did they carry traffic across the channel to the European network? The Barge aboard plan was sadly opposed by the Hull dockers, which led to the project being stopped. It is one of a group of cases where a Trade Union hoping to protect work for its members destroyed work for others, and eventually lost jobs for its own members. The establishment of the rail service Freighliners might have gone a similar way, when unions insisted on "closed" depots (that is where only railway union men (NUR) drove the freighliner road transport), whereas the BRB wanted "open" depots where there was freedom for union or non union men to deliver or collect from the depot. Once Freighliners were transferred out of the Rail Industry, the Rail Uniona lost their advantage and Freighliners came have an increasing importance in UK transport.

 

Ray Shill

[carlt]

I assume the Sheffield sized boats took part in the ill- fated BACAT scheme, and as such did they carry traffic across the channel to the European network?

No, the BACATs were specifically designed boats, made to measure to fit the purpose built catamarans which made the voyage.

 

[Skipari]

So far, the list of boats I am fairly sure still survive includes, with date and builder, and current location:

(...)

Kama Germany

(...)

 

 

May I complete the dates for this barge:

 

Kama 1903 Watsons/Gainsborough Germany

[Pluto]

Just to bring the list up-to-date:

Agenda London

Amy Howson 1914 J Scarr, Beverley South Ferriby

Beecliffe 1925 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Poplar Dock

Charles William 1924 J. Scarr, Beverley Cowley, GUC

Comrade 1923 Warrens, New Holland South Ferriby

Danum Rich. Dunston, Thorne France

Daybreak 1934 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Thames

Drake Falmouth

Dritan 1950c Hepworth, Paull Brixham?

Elspeth May 1951 Rich. Dunston, Thorne London?

Enterprise 1957 Hepworth, Paull

Ethelwood 1950c Rich. Dunston, Thorne Shoreham?

Ferncliffe 1925 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Medway

Forward 1954 John Harker's Poplar Dock

Guidance 1905 Stainforth Shoreham (wood construction)

Harlequin

Heritage 1957/8 Waddingtons Swinton?

Hope 1908 J Scarr, Beverley River Thames

Kama 1903 Gainsborough Germany

Lys 1937 Henry Scarr Ltd Belgium/Netherlands

Mimo Belgium

Nidd 1937 Henry Scarr Ltd Belgium

Onesimus 1913 Joseph Scarr, Bev. Keadby

Orotan (James & Mary)1950c Hepworth, Paull Ireland

Pioneer 1910 Gainsborough Stainforth

Reliance Thames?

Riccall France

Richard

Sara

Sectan 1950c Hepworth, Paull Beverley

Sequana

Service 1951 Hepworth, Paull

Sheaf Wakefield

Shirecliffe 1923 London

Sobriety 1911 Joseph Scarr, Beverley Goole

Southcliffe 1923 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Goole

Spider T 1926 Warrens, New Holland Keadby

Swift 1894 Joseph Scarr, Beverley Wakefield

Syntan 1949 Hepworth, Paull Beverley

Thomas H 1940 Rich. Dunston, Thorne Staines

Victory Harkers Rotherham

Valiant 1959 Hepworth, Paull Rotherham

Wey 1937 Henry Scarr (Dunstons) Nottingham

 

Non-Sheffield-sized boats

(Hunt's) Eden 1924 Henry Scarr Ltd Goole

Egret 1905 Joseph Scarr Castleford?

Hiddekel Goole

Hunt's Kim 1923 Henry Scarr Ltd S&KC

John M Rishworth 1915 Henry Scarr Ltd Milldock, London

Misterton 1923 J Scarr, Beverley Staines (Lincoln sized boat)

Phyllis 1907 W H Warren South Ferriby

Taurus Swinton

Vivos Swinton

 

Billy boys

Brillant Star

Saira 1899 Hunt & Fowler, Hull Wakefield

[Timleech]

Just to bring the list up-to-date:

 

 

 

'Tobias' on the Medway

(Photo Bill Greenhalgh, taken from a train)

 

 

'HOPE' on the Thames, just below Mapledurham:-

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tim

Edited December 5, 2012 by Timleech

[PaddingtonBear]

What is the boat in front?

[carlt]

Please tell me that it is an optical illusion and the thatched gazebo is really on the bank, not on the boat...

 

[tillergirl]

Theres quite a few Selby Barges moored at Goole................don't know if the harbour master or the museum could help you out

[egret]

May I complete the dates for this barge:

 

Kama 1903 Watsons/Gainsborough Germany

 

May I complete the dates for this barge:

 

Kama 1903 Watsons/Gainsborough Germany

I think Karma was a sloop built by watsons to a smaller dimension than sheffield boats to try and atract buyers from the broads this never happened it then being used as a market boat out of hull.

[Skipari]

I think Karma was a sloop built by watsons to a smaller dimension than sheffield boats to try and atract buyers from the broads this never happened it then being used as a market boat out of hull.

 

 

Thank you.

The correct name of this sloop is KAMA, - but already this well known old photo (glass negative in Gainsborough) is marked as KARMA, and even Fred Shofield, who's father had been her first skipper in 1903, reports her as KARMA. The old photo clearly shows the correct name. There is a comment by Dave Robinson long years ago:

"The spelling KARMA seems to have been the Photographers idea of KAMA’s name and he wrote it on his negative. In Barton the older folk who remember KAMA spell the name KAMA because they saw KAMA on the bow of the ship. Fred Shofield and the Photographer probably never saw the name. Fred’s Dad was dead 1953(?) and Fred wrote his book in the 1980s."

 

Maybe you are right with your guess about the Broads, but why should Watsons have speculated on buyers there and produce 4 hulls without order, when his shipyard had enough work at that time? Maybe a contract failed for some reason and Watsons had to decide what to do with his 4 identical hulls. I don't know what happened to the other 3, but KAMA had been rigged for and aft as a normal sloop and worked for Watsons as a general transporter on the Trent for long years. Somewhere in the 30s she had been sold to a company in Owstan Ferry, but I was unable to find any records about. I don't know records about her time during WW2 as well.

In 1952 or 1953 she had been converted to a motor barge by Clapson and Sons Barton Ltd. for William Stamps market boat company. She got a secondhand Kelvin K2 from a Humber Keel.

The sloops KAMA and ANNE were bought by Stamps to replace EVER READY and ROSALIE STAMPS, both were broken up in the 50s. So the two wooden craft were replaced by older iron vessels.

KAMA had been used as a Market Boat until 1962, and was then sold to a Wakefield couple and restyled to be a houseboat. She is now built back to her origin image.

 

Kama's measures 61ft 8", so she is longer than the Sheffield sized PIONEER, which is recorded with 57.60 feet, but KAMA never had been a Humber Sloop in the narrower sense, her hull is really elegant compared with the typical Humber Sloop, and she hadn't been rigged as a Humber Sloop originally.

[Pluto]

At 61 ft 8 in, KAMA should have been able to reach Sheffield. Boats 57.5 feet long were probably built for the Calder & Hebble, though the Yorkshire navigations seem to have had no particular standard, with boats being built for specific traffics and waterways. This could also be a reason for KAMA's fine lines which suggest that she was destined for trades around the coast, perhaps to the Louth Canal.