GUCCC Town Class Names

[RogerM]

I've been doing a little research on the Town Class boat names and the theory that they were picked froma list of railway stations. This is intended to eventually form a page on my website but I thought I'd post it here first in case anyone is interested, wishes to add to it or pull it apart!

 

Although they were known as the as the town class, a casual glance at the list of GUCCC boat names reveals they are not consistent with this nomenclature. Instead we find a list of towns, cities, villages and even locations in London.

 

It has long been speculated that the boats were actually named after railway stations but there have always been a number of anomalies in the list that don’t appear to fit this theory. However having undertaken some research into this I now feel certain that the entire class were named after British (and in one case Irish) railway stations without exception.

 

I’m not going to go through the entire list of 172 boats because in the vast majority of cases the railway station inspiration for the name is obvious. What I will do is run through some of the more interesting, obscure or apparently anomalous ones.

 

161 boats in the fleet were named after British railway stations.

1 was named after a Northern Irish railway station (BELFAST).

10 boats were named after London Transport (Underground) stations: (ALDGATE, ALPERTON, ANGEL, BARNET, BAYSWATER, CHALFONT, CHESHAM, EDGEWARE, PINNER, RUISLIP).

 

In several cases the station name was abbreviated which has produced some of the apparent anomalies:

 

BADSEY: Littleton & Badsey (GWR)

BARNET: High Barnet (LT)

BATTERSEA: Battersea Park (SR)

BEAULIEU: Beaulieu Road (SR)

BOGNOR: Bognor Regis (SR)

CHALFONT: Chalfont & Latimer (LT/LNER)

HAWKESBURY: Hawkesbury Lane (LMS)

RAWDON: Apperley Bridge & Rawdon (LMS)

SOUTHAM: Southam & Long Itchington (LMS)

TADWORTH: Tadworth & Walton-on-Hill (SR)

TARPORLEY: Beeston Castle & Tarporley (LMS)

 

In some cases the abbreviation of the name makes it impossible to ascertain which station the boat was named after:

 

BELFAST: could be Belfast Great Victoria Street (GNR), Belfast Queens Quay (B&CDR) or Belfast York Road (NCC)

FENNY: could be either Fenny Compton (GWR & LMS) or Fenny Stratford (LMS)

HAMPSTEAD: could be either West Hampstead (LMS) or South Hampstead (LMS)

KEW: could be either Kew Bridge (SR & LMS) or Kew Gardens (LMS)

OULTON: could be either Oulton Broad North (LNER) or Oulton Broad South (LNER)

YEOVIL: could be either Yeovil Junction (SR) or Yeovil Pen Mill (SR)

 

There are five names in the list where the name could refer to either of two identically named stations in different parts of the country:

 

BARNHAM: Suffolk (LNER), Sussex (SR)

BELMONT: Middlesex (LMS), Surrey (SR)

HALTON: Lancashire (LMS), Cheshire (GWR/LMS Joint)

NORTON: Cheshire (GWR/LMS Joint), Yorkshire (LNER)

OAKLEY: Bedfordshire (LMS), Fife (LNER)

 

Finally there are the boats with mis-spelled names:

 

BILSTER: This is generally assumed to be a mis-spelling of BILSTON, which was a GWR station.

GLOSSOR: Presumably this was either supposed to be GLOSSOP (LNER) or GLOUCESTER (GWR & LMS).

BERKHAMPSTEAD: Antiquated spelling of BERKHAMSTED (LMS). It is possible the station still used the old spelling at the time the boat was named.

EDGEWARE: Mis-spelled with an extra E. There were actually two Edgware stations; the London Transport station which opened in 1923 and the LNER station which closed in 1939. I tend to think the boat was named after the LT station, but it is not possible to prove this.

FULBOURNE: Apparently mis-spelled with an extra E, but in fact although the village is called “Fulbourn”, the railway station always used the older spelling “Fulbourne”.

 

So whilst there are still questions regarding which precise station some of the boats were named after, there are no names in the list for which no corresponding railway station can be found. It seems likely that the GUCCC used a railway directory (Bradshaw?) to pick the town class names. They would have been better named as the station class boats, although it is probably a good thing that they weren’t as it would cause confusion with the LMS station boats.

[RLWP]

Sorry Roger, I don't buy your theory

 

Many, many places had a railway station. The boats are named after places

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

BERKHAMPSTEAD: Antiquated spelling of BERKHAMSTED (LMS). It is possible the station still used the old spelling at the time the boat was named.

Highly unlikely - pre-war photos of the Stanier streamliners passing Berkhamsted signal box clearly show the modern spelling.

 

One source I have says that the railway adopted the revised spelling as early as the 1860s, which I am suspicious of, but for most purposes, I would say the new spelling had long been the common one, long before any of the Town class coats were built.

 

In the 1970s, the boat carried the old fashioned spelling.....

 

 

The balance of probability does seem to be that BW scrapped a wrong boat in error, and cut "Berkhampstead". The boat that now carries the modern "Berkhamsted" spelling is believed by many to be "Ayr", the boat BW would claim to have cut.

 

It seems likely that the GUCCC used a railway directory (Bradshaw?) to pick the town class names.

I don't know what Bradshaw contained, but did it include London Underground stations ? For the theory to hold up, it would have to have done, wouldn't it ?

 

So how would a 1937-ish Bradshaw spell "Berkhamsted", I wonder ?

[RogerM]

Sorry Roger, I don't buy your theory

 

Many, many places had a railway station. The boats are named after places

 

Richard

 

But could you really pick 172 places at random and guarantee every single one has a railway station? It seems very unlikely to me, despite the profusion of stations prior to Beeching.

[RLWP]

But could you really pick 172 places at random and guarantee every single one has a railway station? It seems very unlikely to me, despite the profusion of stations prior to Beeching.

 

None of them are small places.

 

And you have suggested they were picked by some kind of system. I just disagree that the system was that they picked railway stations

 

Richard

 

MORE:

 

I'll bet that list could also be found in a list of Post Offices, in a telephone directory, and in a 1930's trade directory

Edited July 5, 2012 by RLWP

[RogerM]

Highly unlikely - pre-war photos of the Stanier streamliners passing Berkhamsted signal box clearly show the modern spelling.

 

One source I have says that the railway adopted the revised spelling as early as the 1860s, which I am suspicious of, but for most purposes, I would say the new spelling had long been the common one, long before any of the Town class coats were built.

 

I don't know what Bradshaw contained, but did it include London Underground stations ? For the theory to hold up, it would have to have done, wouldn't it ?

 

So how would a 1937-ish Bradshaw spell "Berkhamsted", I wonder ?

 

I only suggest Bradshaw as a likely candidate, the names could just as easily have been drawn from individual railway company timetables or maps. I don't doubt the station signs used the modern spelling if you've seen the photographic evidence but that doesn't mean it was spelled that way on every railway document etc. This sort of inconsistency in station spelling has been seen in all sorts of places over the years (Hanborough/Handborough on the Cotswold Line for instance).

 

It would be interesting to get hold of the Bradshaw for 1937 though

[alan_fincher]

It would be interesting to get hold of the Bradshaw for 1937 though

I would certainly wish to know if underground lines were included in that Bradshaw. If not, the theory doesn't hold up without adding some exceptions!

[Chertsey]

I have always bought the 'railway gazetteer' theory. This would not however preclude the inclusion of other place names if they took someone's fancy. With regard to the tube stations, at least some of them, in the thirties, were on railway lines rather than being part of the underground network, although I am not sure that would account for all of them. Doesn't it seem most likely that having decided that 'towns' (using the term loosely) would make good names, they chose them from a range of sources, relying on the gazetteer for the bulk of them? Am I right in thinking that they avoided all the town names already used by FMC?

 

Back then I guess also most fair sized and many small towns would have had a railway station.

 

Re. the odd/misspellings, surely that could be accounted for by communication breakdowns, whether it be spelling the name over the phone or reading someone's handwriting, between head office and signwriter.

 

PS. I mused about this on my blog a few years ago and got some interesting comments - here.

 

And I still wonder why there are none beginning with M.

 

PPS. I think it may not be correct to say they *were* known as the Town Class. They are now, but this is, according to lots of people, a fairly recent and definitely post hoc development. Having said that, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the word Town would have been used as shorthand to distinguish the large Woolwiches, Northwiches and Rickies from their small Star counterparts - it would have just been so much quicker and easier as a way of referring to the newer boats.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Chertsey

[pete harrison]

10 boats were named after London Transport (Underground) stations: (ALDGATE, ALPERTON, ANGEL, BARNET, BAYSWATER, CHALFONT, CHESHAM, EDGEWARE, PINNER, RUISLIP).

 

Finally there are the boats with mis-spelled names:

 

EDGEWARE: Mis-spelled with an extra E. There were actually two Edgware stations; the London Transport station which opened in 1923 and the LNER station which closed in 1939. I tend to think the boat was named after the LT station, but it is not possible to prove this

The original naming of the Large Woolwich motor EDGWARE was spelled correctly, although it is spelled incorrectly in most publications and on most 'historic' narrow boat websites. My records suggest that the miss-spelling to EDGEWARE did not happen until after its disposal by B.W.B. in 1968.

 

In my view the subject of G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. 'Town Class' names will only ever be speculative and so has no value. This will remain the case until the original Company minutes are discovered where the naming format was discussed - if they still exist. I have heard "Bradshaw" being mentioned on numerous occasions during the past 40 years or so but with no supporting evidence, and the more this is published on internet websites the more it will be believed to be true.

[tarboat]

 

I don't know what Bradshaw contained, but did it include London Underground stations ? For the theory to hold up, it would have to have done, wouldn't it ?

 

So how would a 1937-ish Bradshaw spell "Berkhamsted", I wonder ?

 

I looked in my 1938 Bradshaw and it does indeed include the London Underground stations. It spells "Berkhamsted" as here.

 

Cheers,

[Chertsey]

Are there any legends as to which publication the 'Stars' might have been plucked from? They seem in a way to be even more random.

 

After all, there are no large boats called 'Town' or 'Village'.... (cf. 'Planet' and 'Star')

Edited July 5, 2012 by Chertsey

[alan_fincher]

After all, there are no large boats called 'Town' or 'Village'.... (cf. 'Planet' and 'Star')

Also "Comet", "Meteor", "Moon", "Satellite" & (presumably!) "Glaxy".

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

We passed "Bargus" the other day, and Cath said "what's that then?". "A 'Star' class", said I.

 

Cath looked puzzled, and said "That's not a name I know in any connection with astronomy, stars, planets, consellations, etc.".

 

I've just "Googled", and other than references to the boat, can't find anything instantly obvious. Anyone know where "Bargus" got it's name from,please >

Edited July 5, 2012 by alan_fincher

[BEngo]

I've been doing a little research on the Town Class boat names and the theory that they were picked froma list of railway stations. This is intended to eventually form a page on my website but I thought I'd post it here first in case anyone is interested, wishes to add to it or pull it apart!

 

<snip>

In some cases the abbreviation of the name makes it impossible to ascertain which station the boat was named after:

 

<snip>

 

YEOVIL: could be either Yeovil Junction (SR) or Yeovil Pen Mill (SR)

 

 

Pedant Alert

 

Or even Yeovil Town (GW/SR Joint I think)

 

Oh, and Yeovil Pen Mill was GW (on the line from Castle Cary to Dorchester, formerly the Bristol and Weymouth railway)

 

 

N

[Catrin]

Also "Comet", "Meteor", "Moon", "Satellite" & (presumably!) "Glaxy".

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

We passed "Bargus" the other day, and Cath said "what's that then?". "A 'Star' class", said I.

 

Cath looked puzzled, and said "That's not a name I know in any connection with astronomy, stars, planets, consellations, etc.".

 

I've just "Googled", and other than references to the boat, can't find anything instantly obvious. Anyone know where "Bargus" got it's name from,please >

I did wonder if it was a mis-heard 'Argus' or 'Argos' - but I can't turn anything obvious up on that either.

Cath

[alan_fincher]

I did wonder if it was a mis-heard 'Argus' or 'Argos' - but I can't turn anything obvious up on that either.

Cath

But there is a butty "Argus" as well..... Are you saying you don't know that name in this context either ?

 

"Star" buttys include Argo, Argon & Argus......

[Catrin]

But there is a butty "Argus" as well..... Are you saying you don't know that name in this context either ?

 

"Star" buttys include Argo, Argon & Argus......

I know the name from Greek mythology (Argus the builder of the ship the Argo as in Jason and the Argonauts), but there is no constellation or star corresponding to any of those.

 

I can't find a lunar crater with a name like this, there are a couple with similar-ish names on Mars, but they are both named more recently.

 

I've looked for natural satellites - nothing obvious. Nor in asteroids.

 

I have no idea what it might be.

[Chertsey]

Well, 'Star' is a post hoc classification too, so who's to say that they didn't turn to Greek mythology (and chemistry?) when they ran out of heavenly bodies?

[c c]

I looked in my 1938 Bradshaw and it does indeed include the London Underground stations. It spells "Berkhamsted" as here.

 

Cheers,

Well done that man

 

None of them are small places.

 

 

Littleton ?

[Tuscan]

Not sure where that leaves us with Aber as number 101 guess we were the first. I don't but the station idea you could have had 170+ boats after stations all starting with the letter A.

[Chertsey]

Not sure where that leaves us with Aber as number 101 guess we were the first. I don't but the station idea you could have had 170+ boats after stations all starting with the letter A.

You could, likewise towns, but why would you want to?

They clearly divided them up in advance so that the Woolwiches got the first half of the alphabet and the Northwiches the second (with Halsall being a bit of an anomaly) so there must have been some advance planning.

I find it quite credible that they would have thought, we'll name this lot after towns, what's a good source of town names for when we run out of ideas, ah yes, Bradshaws...

[the grinch]

Bognor did not become Bognor Regis until 1929 so that may have some bearing on that name.

[Derek R.]

Yes, King George V stayed thereabouts convalescing and the town took the title 'of the King' - Regis.

 

Bit of a dull place. http://www.bognor-regis.org/History/history_home.htm

[Laurence Hogg]

There is no such class of boat. "Town" class is a modern enthusiast naming which has been incorrectly given to these craft. All types of GUCCCo Ltd boats had a letter designating their type. Middle Northwich boats for instance are type "E". The only original drawings which show a name attached to the type are the "Royalty" class.

 

Boatmen knew them as large or small ie "small Ricky" for a Walkers boat and so on. I have never heard anyone who worked the boats in the heyday use any of the class names except for the Royalty boats. The enthusiasts "Town class" contains boats from orders "D" (H&W 24 pairs), "S" (24 motors ex H&W), "F" (38 motors ex Yarwoods)& "K" (62 buttys ex Walkers).

 

There little evidence the letters were used in practice and the terms large or small seem to be common.

 

But .......

 

Curiously in a unpublished history of the GUCCCo written in the early 1950's believed to be by Curtiss he does state quite clearly that the larger boats were named after British Towns or Villages stating,

" These boats, which were of very similar design to the original "Star" class craft, but had holds 4ft 91/2" deep, were known as the "Town" class, being named after towns or villages in the British Isles"

 

He then goes on to give precise details of the orders but refers to the boats in a different way, ie

"18 having mild steel sides and a elm bottom. The motors were fitted with National diesel engines. The craft were known as the "Small Woolwich" class"

 

So within this one document you have no less than three versions of class description!

Edited July 5, 2012 by Laurence Hogg

[Tim Lewis]

None of them are small places.

 

And you have suggested they were picked by some kind of system. I just disagree that the system was that they picked railway stations

 

Richard

 

MORE:

 

I'll bet that list could also be found in a list of Post Offices, in a telephone directory, and in a 1930's trade directory

 

In 1937 Fulbourne had a population of not much more that 1,200 - hardly a big place!

 

Tim

[Laurence Hogg]

Refering to Bradshaw's I think the planning for this was all done in 1934/5 so an earlier version would be more applicable.