Passing Boats

[Athy]

 

no, it comes down to education.

 

experience on its own will never get you there.

The two are, I think, closely linked. But that's probably a discussion for an even rainier day!

[lexicon]

The two are, I think, closely linked. But that's probably a discussion for an even rainier day!

 

yeah very closely linked i would say as its one thing telling someone to pass close and at the last minute its another thing entirely to have the confidence at the tiller to perform such a manouevre with possibly limited hours behind the actual tiller.

 

the confidence comes from actually doing and coming out the other side having not hit.

[Chris Pink]

The thing is that if you are told you will expect the manoeuvre and not get offended and hopefully not move right over so you get stuck which is when resentment arises.

 

To me, anything more than 7 foot between the boats is a sign of inexperience. Normally I would expect less than a foot.

 

There is nothing like the feeling of skilled boating and it is to be encouraged. Hopefully this thread is a small step in the direction of education.

[Proper Job]

At least if you're at the tiller of an old boat, you can expect the steerers coming the other way to have some idea that you might be deep and need the channel. Melaleuca is 2' 10" deep, but looks modern. Unless people notice the lowish roof-line and slow exhaust note, they have no clue. I just set my face and plough on up the middle......

 

 

MP.

I'm with MP on this one

 

Spending most of my time on the muddy ditch that is the Southern Oxford with a 3' draught is fun.

 

I always adopt Chris Pinks passing method as it's the way you should pass. The problem comes in two areas:

1. The approaching boat does not slow down (usually private)

2. Especially when you are on the offside to the tow path, nothing really happens when you try to move over as there's not enough depth to move over.

 

Last years August transit across the summit was fun. For the majority of the time, I justrolled of the throttle and sat there while the approaching boat went round me. I had a few boats shout at me to move over. I would if I could, was my reply. But I'm already on the bottom

[bizzard]

The fact is that most leisure boaters and indeed some so called experienced boaters do not know or have not read or choose to ignore the proper internationally known rules of the road whether it be on the sea,river,pond,canal or lake.If you have to make an unorthodox maneuver to avoid known shallows for example you should make it quite clear to other nearby vessels by some sort of signal,''sound,hand,verbal if close enough ect''.

The head on approach to the last minute before passing is in my opinion down right stupid and dangerous as i mentioned in my other post. Ok i suppose if you know the oncoming boat and its steerer and you both are certain to do the same twitch to starboard at the last moment to dodge each other.

[Proper Job]

It's very rare that the steerer does not know to keep port to port when passing. Even the crap hire boat companies usual pass on that bit of info.

 

If they want to try to pass me starboard to starboard, then it's going to be interesting

 

[GUMPY]

Im shocked

For the first time I agree with CP

There is, if you think about it no way that you can easily hit a boat coming the other way as you are both pushing a wall of water in front of you that will push the boats apart.

I hold until the last moment and rarely have to alter course as the "wall" pushes the bow to Starboard and I then just have to correct to get round the oncoming boats stern.

 

Oh and if you think that Victoria is threatening coming down the cut the prow of Parglena is over 6ft above the water level and 11.5ft beam.

[bizzard]

Boats do not push each other aside automatically when approaching each other head on only when their bow ends have just passed each others. Take your boat to sea and try it on with a super tanker.

[alan_fincher]

It's very rare that the steerer does not know to keep port to port when passing. Even the crap hire boat companies usual pass on that bit of info.

 

If they want to try to pass me starboard to starboard, then it's going to be interesting

 

I must admit it is a very long while since I saw one of these, (other than say as you enter a tunnel).

 

This one is lock-side at Gailey, so hardly applys to use of the lock itself.

 

Presumably for benefit of hire boaters starting out from the base just below the lock ?

 

[Athy]

No, Alan, that's a vintage election poster for the Conservative Party.

[David Mack]

If you are steering a big Woolwich no one is going to argue with you as your bow comes through a bridge hole but not all deep draughted boats have the same "scare" ability If a boat is fully laden it will also be less imposing at the bow but require even more depth of water.

As an uneducated steerer it is all to easy to assume that he boat coming the other direction will move over and when it does not you can then over react and end up getting into a silly place.

 

As a regular steerer of an unconverted (and unloaded) big Woolwich, meeting near a bridge or similar obstruction is one of the more difficult situations to be encountered. If I come around a bend to find an oncoming boat in a bridgehole, or approaching so that he will clearly get there first, I want him to KEEP GOING, so that we can pass safely on my side of the bridge.

 

But all too often the inexperienced or unthinking steerer of the other boat slows right down (or worse, throws the boat into reverse gear), forcing me to do the same as I have nowhere to go, and I can end up aground and/or with the bows swinging across in front of the other boat. I had this happen to me on the BCN Challenge a few years ago when the oncoming boat was emblazoned with the name of one of the better known boat training organisations. If the boat trainers don't know how to cope when meeting a big boat, how can we expect their trainees to understand?

 

David

[Proper Job]

As a regular steerer of an unconverted (and unloaded) big Woolwich, meeting near a bridge or similar obstruction is one of the more difficult situations to be encountered. If I come around a bend to find an oncoming boat in a bridgehole, or approaching so that he will clearly get there first, I want him to KEEP GOING, so that we can pass safely on my side of the bridge.

 

But all too often the inexperienced or unthinking steerer of the other boat slows right down (or worse, throws the boat into reverse gear), forcing me to do the same as I have nowhere to go, and I can end up aground and/or with the bows swinging across in front of the other boat. I had this happen to me on the BCN Challenge a few years ago when the oncoming boat was emblazoned with the name of one of the better known boat training organisations. If the boat trainers don't know how to cope when meeting a big boat, how can we expect their trainees to understand?

 

David

As every one knows...........

 

The only way to do the BCN Challenge is on Team Tawny Owl. She can float on a damp flannel

[alan_fincher]

No, Alan, that's a vintage election poster for the Conservative Party.

Or possibly a more recent one for the Labour party ?

[Chris Pink]

Boats do not push each other aside automatically when approaching each other head on only when their bow ends have just passed each others. Take your boat to sea and try it on with a super tanker.

 

Scenario: you are head to head with an oncoming boat. They keep their course, you keep their course. It seems fairly obvious they either know what they are doing or they are being bloody minded. Either way the course I steer means they will not be able to hit me. As my bow turns to starboard the wave pushes their boat to (my) port.

 

A boat that is going to try and pass the wrong side will in all cases have made some kind of move long before. I treat the fact that they are maintaining a steady course as a sign they know what they are doing.

 

Your sea example is a deviation from your usual common sense. We are discussing boats that are, very roughly speaking, the same size.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Chris Pink

[nicknorman]

The "play chicken" method is clearly the most effective method for passing and works well, provided both boaters subscribe to the practice. I have to say that even though we draw 2'8" plus the amount the back dips under power, I tend to move over a little earlier so that stress is reduced! In the past year I have had one guy coming straight towards me - he took no action to avoid and on passing he aplogised and said "sorry, didn't see you, sun in my eyes" which is an excuse I am more accustomed to on the motorbike. We were passing moored boats and fortunately there was just enough room (literally a couple of inches each side) to miss both him and the boats. Then we had the guy at Fradley village coming the towards us on the wrong side. Jeff was driving and hit reverse big time, which stops Telemachus on a sixpence so we were stationary in the water, well over to "our" side, when he hit us head on. With 5 seconds to impact a shout from the back brought me out onto the welldeck to see bows a few feet away coming straight for us. I shouted my head off at which point steerer of other boat suddenly noticed that there was a large shiny boat about 3' in front of him and applied full rudder, which saved us from a absolutely head on and gave us a hard glancing blow bow to bow instead.

 

Therefore, every time I contemplate the play chicken method I generally consider the stress of wondering whether the other steerer is even awake, so tend to move over a little earlier than optimal, but only enough to miss by a foot or so.

Edited April 18, 2012 by nicknorman

[mykaskin]

It's very rare that the steerer does not know to keep port to port when passing. Even the crap hire boat companies usual pass on that bit of info.

 

If they want to try to pass me starboard to starboard, then it's going to be interesting

 

 

I had that several times on my way back from Droitwich - usually because they panicked and put their boat in my way. I can't normally stop the boat in a short distance, so the best method is to keep going and head around them. I usually give instructions for them to move forward and then I tuck around their stern.

 

It rare for an issue to force me to pass the wrong side unless near locks and their landings and then I make it obvious.

 

Mike

[koukouvagia]

I used to belong to the polite school and tend to move over. That was until I got stuck once too often. It was on a lump of concrete and it took me over four hours and five assisting boats to extricate myself. Now I stay in the channel no matter what. While I agree that Chris' method is ideal, I do have a slight modification.

 

Chris' diagrams show very clearly whathappens when two boats approach mid channel: your boat first is pushed to the right and the stern moves to the left. As you pass the oncoming boat, the reverse happens: the your back swings to right and the front goes to the left. It's at this point that the stern of your boat can get too close to the bank. A deep draughted boat wants to avoid being in the position of diagram 5.

 

My technique is to position myself just to the right of the channel and turn slightly towards the oncoming boat so that when it passes me my stern swings left and my boat remains in mid-channel throughout the manoeuvre.

 

You might say, why don't you just push the tiller over when your boat reaches diagram 5. The answer is that working-boat tillers are hard at the best of times – it's especially hard work to do this on a passing manoeuvre. Also you don't want to push the boat you're passing too far over.

(There are different considerations when passing on bends.)

 

I usually slow down, not because it helps the passing manoeuvre, but because it appears less intimidating. Like most owners of historic, deep-draughted boats, I'm very conscious of our image, which, if this forum is anything to go by, is in need of a bit of burnishing.

[koukouvagia]

It's very rare that the steerer does not know to keep port to port when passing. Even the crap hire boat companies usual pass on that bit of info.

 

 

Not always the case. I think I've told the story before on this forum of the absolute chaos and mayhem in Blisworth tunnel because the steerer of a hire boat had been told to "keep port to port when passing". The hirer thought the boatyard had said "keep to port when passing" and stuck resolutely to the left side of the tunnel when trying to pass - i.e. encounter, oncoming boats.

[nicknorman]

I usually slow down, not because it helps the passing manoeuvre, but because it appears less intimidating. Like most owners of historic, deep-draughted boats, I'm very conscious of our image, which, if this forum is anything to go by, is in need of a bit of burnishing.

Surely the primary reason for slowing down a bit is so that the boat sits a little higher in the water (or if you like, the local water level around the back of the boat is higher) thus keeping the bottom of the canal a little further from the bottom of the boat? That is why I do it (on shallow canals) anyway. Even though perhaps the middle of the boat remains mid channel, because the boat ends up skewed the back end will not be in the middle/deepest bit.

Edited April 18, 2012 by nicknorman

[cheshire~rose]

I am afraid this is a misconception - and I tend to think of it as 'car thinking' You don't need to move over until the last moment. There is no invisible lane divider as, until the moment of passing both boats should be in the centre of the channel.

 

I did not make myself very clear - I was trying to hightlight the fact that both boats should use the centre of the channel and pass close to each other and consider an invisible line at either side of the canal to define a "hard shoulder" that whould only be ventured into in an emergency. Sorry I should avoid typing things in a rush!

[mykaskin]

Surely the primary reason for slowing down a bit is so that the boat sits a little higher in the water (or if you like, the local water level around the back of the boat is higher) thus keeping the bottom of the canal a little further from the bottom of the boat? That is why I do it (on shallow canals) anyway. Even though perhaps the middle of the boat remains mid channel, because the boat ends up skewed the back end will not be in the middle/deepest bit.

 

I slow down to stop putting the other boats on the bottom - especially when they are in the shallows. If it doesn't look they are slowing down however I keep the power on!

[nicknorman]

I slow down to stop putting the other boats on the bottom - especially when they are in the shallows. If it doesn't look they are slowing down however I keep the power on!

Probably quite reasonable but my crew really hates it when the boat develops a nasty list due to being lowered onto the bottom at one side as the other boat passes - no matter how often I explain that it is not going to roll over, I am not believed! I therefore tend to take more power off if boat coming the other way is sucking all the water out of the local bit of canal!

[mykaskin]

Probably quite reasonable but my crew really hates it when the boat develops a nasty list due to being lowered onto the bottom at one side as the other boat passes - no matter how often I explain that it is not going to roll over, I am not believed! I therefore tend to take more power off if boat coming the other way is sucking all the water out of the local bit of canal!

 

I rarely run with a crew - so not an issue!

[David Mack]

Then we had the guy at Fradley village coming the towards us on the wrong side. Jeff was driving and hit reverse big time, which stops Telemachus on a sixpence so we were stationary in the water, well over to "our" side, when he hit us head on.

 

As I said earlier, hitting reverse in this situation could well put you across the canal in a position where the oncoming boat has no way of not hitting you! Agreed it is pretty horrible if someone oncoming is on the wrong side and appears not to have seen you, but in such a case I would just steer clearly to the left and pass wrong side. That way you get no impact(if your lucky) or a glancing blow, rather than a head on.

 

David

[nicknorman]

As I said earlier, hitting reverse in this situation could well put you across the canal in a position where the oncoming boat has no way of not hitting you! Agreed it is pretty horrible if someone oncoming is on the wrong side and appears not to have seen you, but in such a case I would just steer clearly to the left and pass wrong side. That way you get no impact(if your lucky) or a glancing blow, rather than a head on.

 

David

Yes that might have been an option but bearing in mind I was inside and not driving, I did not see how the situation developed. Telemachus does stop straight on a sixpence and does not yaw across the canal like so many boats with insufficiently submerged props, so at the point of impact we were still pointing in exactly the correct direction, just stationary.

 

Jeff was pretty shaken (our boat was about 2 months old from brand new at the time) but I did "debrief" him that use of the horn would have been appropriate. It hadn't occurred to him, since the guy was visibly moving a bit on the back (so not dead!) and seemed to be looking in generally the right direction. I think Jeff just could not believe what was unfolding. I mentioned to him that there are no medical standards for boat driving and perhaps he was partially sighted etc. Just as in car driving, sometimes people are reluctant to use the horn because it can seem agressive, but of course its proper use, just as on the roads, is to warn of approach and not to "tick off". As it was, it was me shouting that brought the guy to his senses, sounding the horn a little earlier would perhaps have had the desired effect in time to avoid a collision.