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lister LH 150 marine gearbox


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helping out a friend who has a LISTER SR2 in his boat.

 

the AHEAD function of the gearbox works well,but reverse will not engage until a lot of throttle is applied.

 

have down loaded adjustment instructions,looks like the brakeband may need adjusting?

 

nipping up the brakeband is simple enough so will try it and see if the problem disappears.

 

question is,is the hydraulic system on these gearboxes bullet-proof,is it best to check that side of it out as well?

 

i have rebuilt dozens of marine reversing gear units,but never a lister version.

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Does it reliably engage neutral? The Lister hydraulic box defaults to the "ahead" condition and relies on hydraulic pressure to engage neutral or reverse so it may be worth checking out the hydraulics if you can.

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Does it reliably engage neutral? The Lister hydraulic box defaults to the "ahead" condition and relies on hydraulic pressure to engage neutral or reverse so it may be worth checking out the hydraulics if you can.

thanks.

 

neutral seems fine, the prop shaft comes to a standstill quickly after selecting neutral.

 

the propshaft is easy to rotate by hand when the engine is shut down.

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thanks.

 

neutral seems fine, the prop shaft comes to a standstill quickly after selecting neutral.

 

the propshaft is easy to rotate by hand when the engine is shut down.

 

 

Well that is not normal. They normally lock in ahead with the engine stopped.

 

Are you sure it is a LH150?

 

Ignore that - not reading the posts properly. Yes, sounds like brake band adjustment would be a good first move.

 

Second reading - don't ignore it. It should lock with a stationary engine.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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They don't lock into forward gear right away.There is a delay whilst the hydraulic pressure gradually disperses,how long this takes depends on the wear and condition of the seals in the box,it can be 5 mins or so.

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Well that is not normal. They normally lock in ahead with the engine stopped.

 

 

But not immediately, IME. On our canal society boat, the shaft is locked for the first weed hatch check (before engine start), but duing subsequent weed clearances, it is easy to turn the prop. Haven't checked how long it takes to lock in ahead after engine switched off, though :blink:

 

Iain

 

P.S. crossed with bizzard.

Edited by Iain_S
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Mucky old oil that's not been changed for yonks can cause hydraulic problems with these boxes too,if suspicious i'd drain it, flush it and replenish with fresh oil. The forward clutch,reverse brake band and hydraulic pressure are adjustable.

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Mucky old oil that's not been changed for yonks can cause hydraulic problems with these boxes too,if suspicious i'd drain it, flush it and replenish with fresh oil. The forward clutch,reverse brake band and hydraulic pressure are adjustable.

thanks bizzard.

the oil is clear and smells like good old EP gear oil,you know,the vegetable stuff.

 

would EP 80/90 be suitable?

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Well that is not normal. They normally lock in ahead with the engine stopped.

 

Are you sure it is a LH150?

 

Ignore that - not reading the posts properly. Yes, sounds like brake band adjustment would be a good first move.

 

Second reading - don't ignore it. It should lock with a stationary engine.

 

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure ;)

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thanks bizzard.

the oil is clear and smells like good old EP gear oil,you know,the vegetable stuff.

 

would EP 80/90 be suitable?

Yes that's fine.Also for the reduction gear,if its got one.

Edited by bizzard
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thanks.

 

neutral seems fine, the prop shaft comes to a standstill quickly after selecting neutral.

 

the propshaft is easy to rotate by hand when the engine is shut down.

Have you checked the dipstick in the reversing box.

 

Being short of oil would produce the symptoms you describe

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Have you checked the dipstick in the reversing box.

 

Being short of oil would produce the symptoms you describe

Spent some time on this gearbox today.

 

brake band adjustment is correct,nipped down and 3 full turns back.

 

ahead adjustment correct.

 

drained the oil and refilled with EP 80/90.

 

the reverse function engages sweetly sometimes,on some occassions it fails to engage without lots of revs and a few seconds delay.

 

a kind and knowledgable chap who repairs and restores listers suggested altering the hydraulic pressure by shim adjustment.

 

 

looks like the problem may be more complex than it first appeared to be.

 

 

any one have any more tips ?

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Spent some time on this gearbox today.

 

brake band adjustment is correct,nipped down and 3 full turns back.

 

ahead adjustment correct.

 

drained the oil and refilled with EP 80/90.

 

the reverse function engages sweetly sometimes,on some occassions it fails to engage without lots of revs and a few seconds delay.

 

a kind and knowledgable chap who repairs and restores listers suggested altering the hydraulic pressure by shim adjustment.

 

 

looks like the problem may be more complex than it first appeared to be.

 

 

any one have any more tips ?

The hydraulic pressure is adjusted by adding or deducting shims from behind the relief valve spring which is situated behind the forward and reverse lever unit on the port side of the box. Adjustments to this should be done with a pressure gauge screwed into the plug port on the boxes top plate,but for the small increase in pressure that you need just a calculated guess would surfice.Probably a weak relief valve spring,but add shims to increase pressure.There are O ring seals on the F&R lever unit behind which the relief valve,spring and shims are so go gently.

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The hydraulic pressure is adjusted by adding or deducting shims from behind the relief valve spring which is situated behind the forward and reverse lever unit on the port side of the box. Adjustments to this should be done with a pressure gauge screwed into the plug port on the boxes top plate,but for the small increase in pressure that you need just a calculated guess would surfice.Probably a weak relief valve spring,but add shims to increase pressure.There are O ring seals on the F&R lever unit behind which the relief valve,spring and shims are so go gently.

Many thanks bizzard

 

the suggestion i got was that the shims had possibly been increased already to increase the pressure for the ahead gear to release.

 

the astern function is actuated by the 'blow-by' from the pressure control valve,if there is insufficient flow as a result of the release valve being set to high,astern wont engage?

 

if the pressure is set too low,the ahead will be unable to disengage?

 

so,could it be that the pressure is too high?

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I have a pressure gauge with an adapter for checking the pressure on that box if you would like to borrow it.

 

Well, I say I have it, I'll have to get it back from PaulCatchpole, but you are welcome to use it

 

Richard

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Many thanks bizzard

 

the suggestion i got was that the shims had possibly been increased already to increase the pressure for the ahead gear to release.

 

the astern function is actuated by the 'blow-by' from the pressure control valve,if there is insufficient flow as a result of the release valve being set to high,astern wont engage?

 

if the pressure is set too low,the ahead will be unable to disengage?

 

so,could it be that the pressure is too high?

I doubt that unless the pressure is seriously too high.

Hydraulic pressure is only used to obtain neutral and reverse. there is no pressure required to obtain forward gear. ''The get yer home feature if the hydraulic pressure fails''.The hydraulic servo cylinder which disengages the forward clutch cone is located on the back of the box,near the prop drive flange or reduction box and is held in the gearbox body by i think 3 bolts.Once the piston in this has pushed out and disengaged forward gear when neutral is selected it remains under pressure holding the forward clutch cone out of contact with its mate while in neutral and also while reverse is selected and used.The pressure is only released when forward gear is selected.

I have the pressure settings in PSI somewhere if you need them. They are pretty high in the region of 250PSI for neutral to 300 odd PSI region for reverse.

 

PS You probably knoe all this but.--- The extra reverse pressure is for engaging the reverse brake band. All this hydraulic control is obtained at the selector relief valve barrel which has holes that correspond with oil pressure holes in the boxes body which it covers and uncovers as the operating lever rotates to select the three positions.

Edited by bizzard
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I have the pressure settings in PSI somewhere if you need them. They are pretty high in the region of 250PSI for neutral to 300 odd PSI region for reverse.

 

 

The handbook reads: 260 - 280 PSI for neutral and 320 - 340 PSI for reverse so you were very close!

 

I reckon the OP should take up Richard's kind offer of the loan of a pressure gauge. .... but first double check that the gear cable is providing the correct amount of travel for full engagement of forward and reverse.

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The handbook reads: 260 - 280 PSI for neutral and 320 - 340 PSI for reverse so you were very close!

 

I reckon the OP should take up Richard's kind offer of the loan of a pressure gauge. .... but first double check that the gear cable is providing the correct amount of travel for full engagement of forward and reverse.

Yes the short operating lever on the gearbox needs to be dead upright when in neutral.

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I have a pressure gauge with an adapter for checking the pressure on that box if you would like to borrow it.

 

Well, I say I have it, I'll have to get it back from PaulCatchpole, but you are welcome to use it

 

Richard

The offer of the pressure gauge is much appreciated richard

 

i will PM my contact details to you.

 

The selector quadrant is in the correct position,as is the cable adjustment.

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Hi, i had a lister with an lh150 box until last year and the oil should NOT be ep80/90 ! it should be automatic transmission fluid (A.T.F) which is a light hydraulic oil , i would suggest you drain it overnight, flush through (and run for a minuit) with some diesel, and re-fill with the correct oil. only the LM150 uses the heavier oil.

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Hi, i had a lister with an lh150 box until last year and the oil should NOT be ep80/90 ! it should be automatic transmission fluid (A.T.F) which is a light hydraulic oil , i would suggest you drain it overnight, flush through (and run for a minuit) with some diesel, and re-fill with the correct oil. only the LM150 uses the heavier oil.

 

The LH150 should ONLY be filled with a Hypoid 80/90 gear Oil

 

Chris.B

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Oddly enough the original Lister Blackstone Marine manual when they were part of the Hawker Sidderley company quoted engine oil for the LH150 gearbox and a little later changed it to Hypoy EP 80 gear oil,and now EP 80/90.

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Oddly enough the original Lister Blackstone Marine manual when they were part of the Hawker Sidderley company quoted engine oil for the LH150 gearbox and a little later changed it to Hypoy EP 80 gear oil,and now EP 80/90.

 

I know exactly what you mean:

The plates on Lister engines and gearboxes never seem to agree exactly with the Lister handbooks.

EP 80/90 works fine. The important thing IMHO is to do regular oil changes.

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Oddly enough the original Lister Blackstone Marine manual when they were part of the Hawker Sidderley company quoted engine oil for the LH150 gearbox and a little later changed it to Hypoy EP 80 gear oil,and now EP 80/90.

 

I also recall that they suggested changing from EP80 to EP90 for warm weather.

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