Job loss and freedom

[Kiwidad]

The only reason we had to pay NI after voluntary retirement was to maximise the state pension.

We started paying the voluntary contributions but after a year or two they brought down the number of years required contributions from the 44 for men & 38 for women.

Now it is 30 years (I think) for both sex's, but check it out on Direct.gov.

 

Alex

 

 

Yes, it is 30 years.

 

I have been out of the country since 1971, and never worked in the UK. Luckily, they have some mutual arrangement with NZ, so I gather my working life here counts.

 

I am moving back soon, to cruise around for a year, then work for a while, then cruise etc

 

I am busy trying to work out how I get on NHS, what I have to bring in the way of evidence etc etc, and there does not seem to be a simple list anywhere.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Kiwidad

[Higgs]

I am busy trying to work out how I get on NHS, what I have to bring in the way of evidence etc etc, and there does not seem to be a simple list anywhere.

 

I have some new NZ friends and I will ask them. They're new here, but I'll ask. They're not going anywhere in a hurry until their engine is fixed.

[Kiwidad]

I have some new NZ friends and I will ask them. They're new here, but I'll ask. They're not going anywhere in a hurry until their engine is fixed.

 

 

Thanks, just to avoid confusion... Both my wife and I are British, with British Passports, so no problems with living there, its just we are not registered anywhere as I was a kid when I left.

 

We both do have NI numbers but have made no contributions in the UK

 

Any advice welcomed

[Doubleh]

Kiwidad, you may be able to find more information about this on liveaboard sailing forums such as ybw.com where I know this question has been discussed, or possibly general expat forums.

 

I suspect the reason you haven't found much definitive information is because this is something that has rarely been enforced in the past, but as Arthur says with the NHS under increasing shortage of cash things like this are only likely to get more attention.

 

My understanding of the situation is that your entitlement to NHS treatment depends not on whether you have been paying NI contributions previously or where you lived previously, but simply on whether you are permanently resident in the uk at the time you need treatment. This rules out all of the expats who live in Spain but fly back to the uk to use the hospital. However when I looked into this myself there does not seem to be anything stopping you from returning to the uk to take up permanent residence thus regaining your entitlement. I'm not aware of anything you need to do in order to prove this, but if you are going to find work, register on the electoral roll etc. I would have thought that put you in a pretty strong position.

 

I guess where he risk comes in is that if you have been resident in NZ and not paying NIC's you may be flagged up as a likely medical tourist which may put the onus on you to demonstrate that you are now a bona fide resident.

 

All of course my non expert understanding of the situation and so to be treated with appropriate caution.

 

Good luck!

[ukrizla]

Anyhow seen as Mandy wasnt asking about JSA, NHS or any other government help, does it really matter. Mandy back to your original post,as long as you enjoy yourself and chill out along the way I cant see too many problems, in what your doing.You can tie up to lift bridges so as to get on and off with ease.

The Macc and Peak Forest are beautiful canals

 

Have fun

[Higgs]

Thanks, just to avoid confusion... Both my wife and I are British, with British Passports, so no problems with living there, its just we are not registered anywhere as I was a kid when I left.

 

We both do have NI numbers but have made no contributions in the UK

 

Any advice welcomed

 

Kiwidad. Passing on information given to me by a NewZealander. Got a British Passport - It seems to be possible just to register at a surgery.

[Mandy]

Even if you know you not entitled to a JSA payment you should still register with the job centre and sign on to get your National Insurance credits for the state pension. Unless of course you are of an age where you have had enough years employed to have enough for the state pension

Oh yes, I'm of an age! I have 35 years under my belt work wise so I'll be fine for the state pension - whenever I eventually get that! I actually only have to survive for the next 8 years because I will get a work pension that I can live on - carefully - when I am 60. Oops, given my age away!

 

Anyhow seen as Mandy wasnt asking about JSA, NHS or any other government help, does it really matter. Mandy back to your original post,as long as you enjoy yourself and chill out along the way I cant see too many problems, in what your doing.You can tie up to lift bridges so as to get on and off with ease.

The Macc and Peak Forest are beautiful canals

 

Have fun

Thanks Ukrizla, I have found the posts about state assistance fascinating to read but you are right. I am not interested in being involved with the state unless I absolutely have to be. The idea that I might have to attend a job centre and sign on even if they are not giving me any money did make me laugh. In this country (so far) the state cannot force me to do anything like that if I am not asking anything from them. They may think they have power over me, but it is an illusion. The state only has power over you if you give it to them. Thanks for the lift bridge info!

 

Actually factually correct, though not often checked or enforced. At the hospital at which I work, there is a department that deals with aliens, from outside the EU. In several cases they have to pay (or show travel insurance -who pay). The latest chargeable group of people (new posters up recently) are British Citizens not resident in the EU, If you do not pay or get credited a minimum NI contribution then you MAY get asked to pay for treatment, which at £300 a night for the bed only in my hospital then add nursing and consultants fees could get silly expensive.

 

IMO this is to target expat Brits coming back for treatment and leaving again, but the info we have indicates that Paying NI or having it credited is the deciding factor not home address.

 

Usually the contributions that count are the tax year before the current calendar year, so some things bite back later.

 

Remember that the NHS has run out of money so anything they can do to recover money they will do.

 

Remember also that most state benefits credit you with a basic rate NI. JSA and retirement pension do for certain. Only a benefit law specialist could give the definitive answer for all the possible benefits, then there would be case law to consider is special cases.

Dear Arthur, since I am neither sick nor an alien, I think I'll put this on the back burner of things to worry about!

[tree]

Hiya Mandy You nearly always find someone to help you out on your travels, and yes!! I admit it can be a bit daunting, but its also a lot of fun. Everyone I met on my last trip were so helpful and gave me good advice as I was travelling along ( Ok! I did meet one stoppy git lol ) but on average many more lovely boaters and cyclist and fishing folk

It is not always easy especially when you are a solo-boater, but I found that what worked was to do things a lickle bit slower and just take my time. Happy boating

 

forgot a bit lol , regarding finding work ectera maybe along your way you could stop off at some boatyards and ask if they need any help, with cleaning out the hire boats ectera.. or maybe farms. I will be moving aboard in a few months and will have to sort out employment as I run a successful buisness here in Wales, and I am keeping my fingers crossed adn everything else lol, that once I move back to England I can re-set it up successfully. I have beeen tinkering with the idea of doing a canal/boat related business, just have to get the move sorted and then get the grey cells going and do some re-search. I would love not to have to worry about work but doing something 3 days a week will suit me ( else I get easily bored lol and miscievious.. oh! damm you Gemini traits hehe) take care

Edited April 11, 2012 by tree

[larkshall]

Mandy re 'signing on Pension credit'. I note you said how many years contributions you have. However, do check how many years they (DWP) have on record for you. I had a nasty experience a few years back whilst working overseas, my then employers had not paid the relevant contribution, leaving me 3 years short. It was quickly sorted by the old employer and DWP. But boy did give me a nasty shock. Also with the rapidly changing pensions situation, its as well that you keep an eye on what you will receive from your private pension as well as state pension. One of my private pensions annual rise is linked to the annual rise in state pensions for instance.

 

However I remain jealous of you (going green with envy here).

[FORTUNATA]

Now you got me started. Good point, by the way about the state machine. I've been really investigating the entire JSA (Job Seekers Allowance) question as my information tells me there have been (1) radical changes and (2) thousands of people who are battling sanctions.

Here is what I know so far:

If you've been working for two years or more you'll get contribution based JSA for 6 months. This is normally not so demanding in terms of what you must do so you just have to keep records of what jobs you applied for.

After 6 months you automatically go onto income based JSA, so are asked for stuff such as bank savings details. After 16,000 K you're allowed nothing. Over 6,500 they knock off the allowance the higher you're above the margin.

I've heard of people who have bank accounts and saved for a "rainy day" and are then snookered.

After 1 year they put you an the Work Programme. This is very demanding in time and scores of people have had their money stopped.

Your best bet would probably be to claim the first six months but try and get a job before that expires. This depends on age as I think younger people find it easier.

 

I thought you had to sign in every fortnight and show you are looking for work. I don't want to have to bus it back to Burton every two weeks and until the money runs out, I don't want to look for work! I would also prefer to keep as far away from the machine of the state as possible! However, I guess I will feel different when I can't afford to buy my whisky any more!!

 

 

Are they particularly heavy or what? I have to admit just occasionally I miss having a strong man about! But only occasionally...

[Higgs]

Now you got me started. Good point, by the way about the state machine. I've been really investigating the entire JSA (Job Seekers Allowance) question as my information tells me there have been (1) radical changes and (2) thousands of people who are battling sanctions.

Here is what I know so far:

If you've been working for two years or more you'll get contribution based JSA for 6 months. This is normally not so demanding in terms of what you must do so you just have to keep records of what jobs you applied for.

After 6 months you automatically go onto income based JSA, so are asked for stuff such as bank savings details. After 16,000 K you're allowed nothing. Over 6,500 they knock off the allowance the higher you're above the margin.

I've heard of people who have bank accounts and saved for a "rainy day" and are then snookered.

After 1 year they put you an the Work Programme. This is very demanding in time and scores of people have had their money stopped.

Your best bet would probably be to claim the first six months but try and get a job before that expires. This depends on age as I think younger people find it easier.

 

You're assessed on your means from day one. Sign-on fortnightly. Every 4 weeks or so will see an advisor. After a year will be working with A4e or Ingeus or some other contracted agency. This is as well as signing on.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Higgs

[Nose Miner]

Hi Mandy, you might want to consider this option.

 

If you decide to become self-employed, doing whatever you like, whether it be selling canalside niknaks or providing a service like boat washing and polishing, you will be entitled to claim working tax credit. As long as you are engaging in, or available for, your chosen activity for more than 30 hours a week, and as long as you don't have huge savings or earnings you will get the full amount which is around £50 a week. This is enough to live on in the event that your earnings are not forthcoming, but perhaps more importantly it frees you up to do what you want, whether that be earning money or travelling looking for work.

 

If you are claiming benefit you have to sign on, show proof that you are looking for work, get treated rather badly by jobcentre staff and you get into lots of problems if you do find small amounts of work. WTC only requires that you complete an annual statement of your circumstances (unless they change of course).

 

Ian

[Higgs]

Hi Mandy, you might want to consider this option.

 

If you decide to become self-employed, doing whatever you like, whether it be selling canalside niknaks or providing a service like boat washing and polishing, you will be entitled to claim working tax credit. As long as you are engaging in, or available for, your chosen activity for more than 30 hours a week, and as long as you don't have huge savings or earnings you will get the full amount which is around £50 a week. This is enough to live on in the event that your earnings are not forthcoming, but perhaps more importantly it frees you up to do what you want, whether that be earning money or travelling looking for work.

 

If you are claiming benefit you have to sign on, show proof that you are looking for work, get treated rather badly by jobcentre staff and you get into lots of problems if you do find small amounts of work. WTC only requires that you complete an annual statement of your circumstances (unless they change of course).

 

Ian

 

 

I'm going down the tax credit road at the moment. Two important things to do - you must put down that your business will require more than 30hrs a week and your estimated earnings should be zero. Your earnings, in any case, will only be the money you make after deducting your outgoings and overheads.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Higgs

[Mandy]

I'm going down the tax credit road at the moment. Two important things to do - you must put down that your business will require more than 30hrs a week and your estimated earnings should be zero. Your earnings, in any case, will only be the money you make after deducting your outgoings and overheads.

This is really interesting - thanks. I have no issue taking money from the state since I have given them loads over the years and having been healthy and had no kids, have not got services back through either national health or education, so I haven't exactly been a drain on the system! But, having been a wage slave for over 30 years, the last thing I want now I am smelling the sweet scent of freedom is to voluntarily chain myself to the state! If they want to give me a bit of money to help me on my way I'd be very grateful, but if they want me to jump through hoops for it - they can keep it!

[Higgs]

This is really interesting - thanks. I have no issue taking money from the state since I have given them loads over the years and having been healthy and had no kids, have not got services back through either national health or education, so I haven't exactly been a drain on the system! But, having been a wage slave for over 30 years, the last thing I want now I am smelling the sweet scent of freedom is to voluntarily chain myself to the state! If they want to give me a bit of money to help me on my way I'd be very grateful, but if they want me to jump through hoops for it - they can keep it!

 

 

JSA is £71.00, Tax credit £51.00.

 

I'm sure that I can make a go of self-employment, but it immediately reduces any help by £20.00. I'm starting with very little cash, this help in the initial stages is emergency funding only. The other benefit of course, is that I am no longer tied to routine signing on etc. Extending my range (cruising) is also possible. Variety is the spice of life and sitting in a marina stifles a bit.

[tree]

I'm going down the tax credit road at the moment. Two important things to do - you must put down that your business will require more than 30hrs a week and your estimated earnings should be zero. Your earnings, in any case, will only be the money you make after deducting your outgoings and overheads.

Regarding becoming self-employed it can be a bit scary at first for some folk, but the advantages IMO outweigh some of those fears. I have over the years worked for many different organisations as well as being self-employed quite a few times lol. I enjoy the freedom that being self-employed gives me, enabling me to chose what jobs I want to take on, and being your own boss means ( to me anyway that I can ensure that my standards are always excellent. The requirements if you have no children still of school age and living with you is to work 30hrs, but I now work 44hrs a week and some of that time is taken up, doing office work.

 

But you can chose what hours or days that you would like to work, as long as the hours fit the Working Tax criteria. OK!! the disadvantages are that I do not get paided for taking holidays or if I am sick, but I make allowances for the possibility of this by saving a lickle bit more and to me that is a small price to pay for the flexibility, that I now have and I also chose the rates of pay. Good luck with what ever you chose to do

Edited April 12, 2012 by tree

[FORTUNATA]

Can relate to that. The truth is, if you work as a "wage slave", the State will try and take as much from you as it can get. In fact, I found out recently that someone who is made redundant and then perhaps goes to Europe to try and start up a pub or business only gets 3 months JSA wired over and may get nothing at all on return. That's due to the residency test the Government is using (about to be challenged in the courts by the E.U.)

Would be nice if you could live cheaply and make a little money by yourself. I did meet one guy who buys boats, transports them, does them up and sells again. I suppose you need a good idea.

 

This is really interesting - thanks. I have no issue taking money from the state since I have given them loads over the years and having been healthy and had no kids, have not got services back through either national health or education, so I haven't exactly been a drain on the system! But, having been a wage slave for over 30 years, the last thing I want now I am smelling the sweet scent of freedom is to voluntarily chain myself to the state! If they want to give me a bit of money to help me on my way I'd be very grateful, but if they want me to jump through hoops for it - they can keep it!

[Titan]

to the OP

 

find a river (canal) to sailaway on simples

Edited April 13, 2012 by Titan

[Mandy]

to the OP

 

find a river (canal) to sailaway on simples

lol, lol

[FORTUNATA]

If you've been working over 2 years you can get contribution based JSA. Thus, the money you paid into the system, you're entitled to get back. Sure, it is kind of humiliating to go into a job centre to sign on but on contribution based it's just what you paid in via national insurance.

I think for the first six months, you shouldn't have to dig that deeply into your time schedule. If you apply for 3 or 4 jobs max per week, they shouldn't bother you. The odd interview for 10 minutes every so many weeks.

Problems only arise when you're longer term unemployed. In fact after one year you get referred to The Work Program for 2 years. A good time to sign off is after 6 months on the contribution based system.

If you tell them you're considering self employment and are taking steps to do that, they will probably not pressure you due to the fact you worked several years and aren't priority long term unemployed.

The 70 odd quid a week should help you as you work out your business plan.

Hope this helps as I've been through the system myself.

 

Oh yes, I'm of an age! I have 35 years under my belt work wise so I'll be fine for the state pension - whenever I eventually get that! I actually only have to survive for the next 8 years because I will get a work pension that I can live on - carefully - when I am 60. Oops, given my age away!

 

 

Thanks Ukrizla, I have found the posts about state assistance fascinating to read but you are right. I am not interested in being involved with the state unless I absolutely have to be. The idea that I might have to attend a job centre and sign on even if they are not giving me any money did make me laugh. In this country (so far) the state cannot force me to do anything like that if I am not asking anything from them. They may think they have power over me, but it is an illusion. The state only has power over you if you give it to them. Thanks for the lift bridge info!

 

 

Dear Arthur, since I am neither sick nor an alien, I think I'll put this on the back burner of things to worry about!

[mrsmelly]

JSA is £71.00, Tax credit £51.00.

 

I'm sure that I can make a go of self-employment, but it immediately reduces any help by £20.00. I'm starting with very little cash, this help in the initial stages is emergency funding only. The other benefit of course, is that I am no longer tied to routine signing on etc. Extending my range (cruising) is also possible. Variety is the spice of life and sitting in a marina stifles a bit.

 

I have always looked on this matter somewhat different to many other people. The main point to me would by my own self esteem. Signing on for JSA if I had an option of any kind of self employment for me would be a none starter.

[FORTUNATA]

It may depend where you live. My area is one of the worst in the country with high unemployment and boarded-up shops. I only stay as I have care commitments.

To start up a small business isn't always easy these days unless you've got a really good idea. I tried both e-bay selling and dog-walking. I did make money but not enough to make a stable income. I'd recommend trying to get some sort of small income to allow time to get the business going, even if it's an alternative to JSA.

In the case of the O.P., she's worked, paid tax and shouldn't feel ashamed if she's contributed. Although I do understand it's unpleasant to walk into a job centre these days with all the doom and gloom. Main thing is to try and keep positive and keep trying.

 

I have always looked on this matter somewhat different to many other people. The main point to me would by my own self esteem. Signing on for JSA if I had an option of any kind of self employment for me would be a none starter.

[Bobbin]

I have been living on my boat for 3 years now and have gradually been shedding my land based compulsions. First I lived in a marina and was wedded to shore power and still worked and lived as if I was still living on land - mostly. Then I moved to mooring on the canal with no shore power, no fences and no one telling me how to live. Now I have just been told I am losing my job (which bored me rigid but provided me with just enough income). So I am going to take off on my first long cruise (3 months or so). Two questions - I am intending to travel up the Macc and Peak Forest canals - any issues for a single hander I should know about like how to cope with lift bridges with no crew? Second question - how does one cope with no income or is it possible to find enough work to live without being a wage slave?

 

Hi Mandy, I know this may not be much help, but you could buy a book on wild food or foraging for free food, it can help with the groceries. I often forage, wild garlic is wonderful, sloes make fantastic flavoured gin and vodka. Wild mushrooms are tricky, but once you know the ones are safe to eat you will have a feast.

[Higgs]

I have always looked on this matter somewhat different to many other people. The main point to me would by my own self esteem. Signing on for JSA if I had an option of any kind of self employment for me would be a none starter.

 

I don't worry about the self-esteem aspect. Being temporarily a Jobseeker is a pain in the neck, but that's it. It all depends how you measure ones worth. Possessions, jobs, positions etc, are the least I value in people.

 

How others see you as a person on JSA is entirely their problem, and I don't feel responsible for that or care.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Higgs

[Mandy]

Hi Mandy, I know this may not be much help, but you could buy a book on wild food or foraging for free food, it can help with the groceries. I often forage, wild garlic is wonderful, sloes make fantastic flavoured gin and vodka. Wild mushrooms are tricky, but once you know the ones are safe to eat you will have a feast.

How do you feel about road kill?

 

I don't worry about the self-esteem aspect. Being temporarily a Jobseeker is a pain in the neck, but that's it. It all depends how you measure ones worth. Possessions, jobs, positions etc, are the least I value in people.

 

How others see you as a person on JSA is entirely their problem, and I don't feel responsible for that or care.

I'm with you on that one. I just don't want to sign on until I absolutely have to because I don't want my hard won freedom compromised.