Re- Tony Brooks article in CB

[STIG]

Just wondered if anyone has seen this letter by Tony.

 

He says : " Many boaters use mains electric tube type `greenhouse` heaters plus a thermostat to prevent the boat freezing in winter, others use oil-filled electric radiators.

It would appear that at least one insurance company has inserted a new clause to the effect that they will not meet a claim unless any heater is approved for marine use.

 

He goes on to say, " If you are using such heaters and your boat has a combined inverter/battery charger, it is important that you ensure that the set up is such that the inverter will not try to feed the heaters in the event of a shoreline failure. If you do not, you are likely to end up with flat and probably damaged batteries".

 

 

Perhaps Tony would expand and let us know which insurance company he has seen this

[PaulG]

Just wondered if anyone has seen this letter by Tony.

 

He says : " Many boaters use mains electric tube type `greenhouse` heaters plus a thermostat to prevent the boat freezing in winter, others use oil-filled electric radiators.

It would appear that at least one insurance company has inserted a new clause to the effect that they will not meet a claim unless any heater is approved for marine use.

 

He goes on to say, " If you are using such heaters and your boat has a combined inverter/battery charger, it is important that you ensure that the set up is such that the inverter will not try to feed the heaters in the event of a shoreline failure. If you do not, you are likely to end up with flat and probably damaged batteries".

 

 

Perhaps Tony would expand and let us know which insurance company he has seen this

Approved by whom?

[Tony Brooks]

Just wondered if anyone has seen this letter by Tony.

 

He says : " Many boaters use mains electric tube type `greenhouse` heaters plus a thermostat to prevent the boat freezing in winter, others use oil-filled electric radiators.

It would appear that at least one insurance company has inserted a new clause to the effect that they will not meet a claim unless any heater is approved for marine use.

 

He goes on to say, " If you are using such heaters and your boat has a combined inverter/battery charger, it is important that you ensure that the set up is such that the inverter will not try to feed the heaters in the event of a shoreline failure. If you do not, you are likely to end up with flat and probably damaged batteries".

 

 

Perhaps Tony would expand and let us know which insurance company he has seen this

 

 

I read it on CWF about a month ago and it came from a member. The company was not named but I can tell you my policy from Craftinsure does not have such a clause.

 

It should be no great deal for readers to scrutinise their own policies and to ensure a change of insurer does not land them with such a clause. However before they can do it they need to be aware of the possibility, hence what I said.

 

I am extremely sceptical re insurance companies and the "get out of jail" free cards so may seem to employ makes checking for such a clause vital.

 

If the member was incorrect I am happy but I would be far from happy if a boater had a fire and the insurance company voided the contract.

 

PS, I do not have time to search the archive so there is a project for you.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Tony Brooks

[alan_fincher]

I read it on CWF about a month ago and it came from a member. The company was not named but I can tell you my policy from Craftinsure does not have such a clause.

If it was posted about a month ago, it wouldn't have been these then I think.....

 

Old post 1

 

Old Post 2

 

From a quick look, they seem to be postulating that an insurance company might not pay, rather than citing real examples, but I didn't dig that deeply.

 

No obvious recent hits I could find quickly, though.....

[Paul Evans]

As the writer of Old Post 1 I can confirm I was postulating that an insurance company might decline to pay out on a claim rather than speaking from personal experience or knowledge of such a refusal.

[Keeping Up]

The chances of ANY heater being approved for marine use must be vanishingly close to zero.

[PaulG]

The chances of ANY heater being approved for marine use must be vanishingly close to zero.

Business opportunity there, mate. "Marine Electric Heater Approval". Could probably get a grant for it from the HSE.

[blackrose]

It seem that on one hand some insurance companies (such as Craftunsure), issue reccomendations to policyholders regarding extra vigilance to avoid winter ice damage to pipes, mudboxes, etc, but then on the other hand they preclude the use of these thermostatically controlled electric heaters, which if used properly are generally safe. As usual they seem to want it both ways?

 

That was a genuine typo by the way, but I decided to leave it uncorrected.

[Tony Brooks]

If it was posted about a month ago, it wouldn't have been these then I think.....

 

Old post 1

 

Old Post 2

 

From a quick look, they seem to be postulating that an insurance company might not pay, rather than citing real examples, but I didn't dig that deeply.

 

No obvious recent hits I could find quickly, though.....

 

 

They defiantly said they had such a clause so if its not on CWF I must have read it on one of the Newsgroups or NBW, but I am sure it was not the latter.

 

 

 

Found it on the Cutweb board. I quote part of the message:-

 

"We recently renewed the insurance cover.

 

We noted that our insurers have added two new 'get out' clauses.

 

(1) The use of de-humidifiers will not be paid by the insurers if they cause

damage when the vessel is left un-attended - unless they have specified for

marine use.

 

(2) The same as above but in relation to heaters unless they are specified for

marine use.

 

Presumably these items have been identified to cause losses of insurance claims

I assume by fire?

 

My question is: Are there any makes of de-humidifiers/heaters that are deemed

suitable for use on boats?"

Edited March 13, 2012 by Tony Brooks

[Québec]

They defiantly said they had such a clause so if its not on CWF I must have read it on one of the Newsgroups or NBW, but I am sure it was not the latter.

 

I do approve of defiance when it comes to insurance companies

[JJay]

It seem that on one hand some insurance companies (such as Craftunsure), issue reccomendations to policyholders regarding extra vigilance to avoid winter ice damage to pipes, mudboxes, etc, but then on the other hand they preclude the use of these thermostatically controlled electric heaters, which if used properly are generally safe. As usual they seem to want it both ways?

 

I read it on CWF about a month ago and it came from a member. The company was not named but I can tell you my policy from Craftinsure does not have such a clause.

 

Our policy is with Craftinsure. I can confirm it has no such requirement.

[blackrose]

Our policy is with Craftinsure. I can confirm it has no such requirement.

 

In that case I take back what I said. I didn't read Tony's post properly.

Edited March 13, 2012 by blackrose

[tosher]

They defiantly said they had such a clause so if its not on CWF I must have read it on one of the Newsgroups or NBW, but I am sure it was not the latter.

 

 

 

Found it on the Cutweb board. I quote part of the message:-

 

"We recently renewed the insurance cover.

 

We noted that our insurers have added two new 'get out' clauses.

 

(1) The use of de-humidifiers will not be paid by the insurers if they cause

damage when the vessel is left un-attended - unless they have specified for

marine use.

 

(2) The same as above but in relation to heaters unless they are specified for

marine use.

 

Presumably these items have been identified to cause losses of insurance claims

I assume by fire?

 

My question is: Are there any makes of de-humidifiers/heaters that are deemed

suitable for use on boats?"

 

 

"Newton Crum" - Helmsman's policy states "Dehumidifiers and heaters, unless Certified Rated for Marine use, must not be left on unattended overnight"

[Tony Brooks]

Just wondered if anyone has seen this letter by Tony.

 

He says : " Many boaters use mains electric tube type `greenhouse` heaters plus a thermostat to prevent the boat freezing in winter, others use oil-filled electric radiators.

It would appear that at least one insurance company has inserted a new clause to the effect that they will not meet a claim unless any heater is approved for marine use.

 

He goes on to say, " If you are using such heaters and your boat has a combined inverter/battery charger, it is important that you ensure that the set up is such that the inverter will not try to feed the heaters in the event of a shoreline failure. If you do not, you are likely to end up with flat and probably damaged batteries".

 

 

Perhaps Tony would expand and let us know which insurance company he has seen this

 

 

Just for completness I must point out that the piece was edited after it left me. The first paragraph as I wrote it said: "I recently read about a clause in a boat insurance policy that could have profound effects upon a significant number of boaters. I cannot attest to the veracity of the information but the implications are so important I think a warning is appropriate."

 

"Newton Crum" - Helmsman's policy states "Dehumidifiers and heaters, unless Certified Rated for Marine use, must not be left on unattended overnight"

 

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I think this needs the widest publicity in narrowboating circles because the use of both are far from uncommon.

 

From memory they will also not allow the loan of the boat (with NO form of payment) to extended family and close friends - I did not bother to get them to tell me who I could loan it to.

[Keeping Up]

The last time I enquired about electrical equipment being approved for marine use, I was told by the manufacturers that the term "marine use" was taken to mean that it would be continually soaked in saltwater spray and would be subjected to being thrown about by the waves as well as tilting to 45 degrees, therefore such approval just would not happen.

[Chalky]

"Newton Crum" - Helmsman's policy states "Dehumidifiers and heaters, unless Certified Rated for Marine use, must not be left on unattended overnight"

 

So provided that it's got a time switch that only turns it on during the day when unattended you'll be ok....?

[tosher]

So provided that it's got a time switch that only turns it on during the day when unattended you'll be ok....?

 

Good thinking!

 

Just for completness I must point out that the piece was edited after it left me. The first paragraph as I wrote it said: "I recently read about a clause in a boat insurance policy that could have profound effects upon a significant number of boaters. I cannot attest to the veracity of the information but the implications are so important I think a warning is appropriate."

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I think this needs the widest publicity in narrowboating circles because the use of both are far from uncommon.

 

From memory they will also not allow the loan of the boat (with NO form of payment) to extended family and close friends - I did not bother to get them to tell me who I could loan it to.

 

"Loaning Craft" does include cover for owners immediate family. For others the owner must supply details of borrowers to the insurance company.

[Taslim]

The last time I enquired about electrical equipment being approved for marine use, I was told by the manufacturers that the term "marine use" was taken to mean that it would be continually soaked in saltwater spray and would be subjected to being thrown about by the waves as well as tilting to 45 degrees, therefore such approval just would not happen.

 

And the on board distribution panel and socket outlets too? 'Phaps one could get away with a marine aquarium heater?

[Ray T]

From memory they will also not allow the loan of the boat (with NO form of payment) to extended family and close friends - I did not bother to get them to tell me who I could loan it to.

 

 

Slightly but our insurers Towergate Mardon underwritten by Royal and Sun Alliance allow the use of our boat by friends and family for no charge provided I tell them in writing, the insurers that is.

[Tony Brooks]

Good thinking!

 

 

 

"Loaning Craft" does include cover for owners immediate family. For others the owner must supply details of borrowers to the insurance company.

 

 

Not according to an email my insurance company sent me before I took the policy. I do have to ensure they are competent to handle the boat though.

[tosher]

Not according to an email my insurance company sent me before I took the policy. I do have to ensure they are competent to handle the boat though.

 

 

You have me worried now --- I don't fully understand your post, the wording I used was taken directly from the policy I received three days ago. I do have to satisfy myself they are competent to handle the boat but who would loan there boat to some one without doing this.

[Tony Brooks]

You have me worried now --- I don't fully understand your post, the wording I used was taken directly from the policy I received three days ago. I do have to satisfy myself they are competent to handle the boat but who would loan there boat to some one without doing this.

 

I do not see what there is not to understand:-

 

Your message quoted by me:-

 

""Loaning Craft" does include cover for owners immediate family. For others the owner must supply details of borrowers to the insurance company."

 

My reply to that message:-

 

"Not according to an email my insurance company sent me before I took the policy. I do have to ensure they are competent to handle the boat though."

 

 

From my checking prior to purchasing insurance and IN RELATION TO MY INSURANCE COMPANY'S EMAIL ONLY your original message is not correct.

 

The trouble with insurance and so many other things on here far too often people write in perfectly good faith but do not seem to realise the not everyone uses the same insurance company or has the same engine etc. What may be true in your case is not necessarily true for others.

 

I can tell you that when I was shopping about for insurance Newton Crum and I think Saga excluded loaning to family. However that was some years ago so they may have changed it now.

[tosher]

I do not see what there is not to understand:-

 

 

 

 

View Posttosher, on 13 March 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

"Newton Crum" - Helmsman's policy states "Dehumidifiers and heaters, unless Certified Rated for Marine use, must not be left on unattended overnight"

 

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I think this needs the widest publicity in narrowboating circles because the use of both are far from uncommon.

 

From memory they will also not allow the loan of the boat (with NO form of payment) to extended family and close friends - I did not bother to get them to tell me who I could loan it to.

 

My misunderstanding came about because in my earlier post I referred to "Newton Crums" insurance policy and in your reply to that post you used the word "they". I automatically assumed you were refering to the same company. My mistake.

[ditchcrawler]

They defiantly said they had such a clause so if its not on CWF I must have read it on one of the Newsgroups or NBW, but I am sure it was not the latter.

 

 

 

Found it on the Cutweb board. I quote part of the message:-

 

"We recently renewed the insurance cover.

 

We noted that our insurers have added two new 'get out' clauses.

 

(1) The use of de-humidifiers will not be paid by the insurers if they cause

damage when the vessel is left un-attended - unless they have specified for

marine use.

 

(2) The same as above but in relation to heaters unless they are specified for

marine use.

 

Presumably these items have been identified to cause losses of insurance claims

I assume by fire?

 

My question is: Are there any makes of de-humidifiers/heaters that are deemed

suitable for use on boats?"

I remember reading about dehumidifiers, probably the same source.