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Council tax.


pete.i

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I think Star has it right.

 

would be a good one for April 1st.

 

 

All BOAT/CARAVAN/TENT OR REALLY LARGE SHEET THAT YOU COULD SLEEP UNDER OWNERS

ARE TO PAY FULL + 50% LUXURY COUNCIL TAX.

 

Just imagine all them Gin palaces on the south coast, hang on I might give London a call might solve the depression.

 

Have fun all, enjoy the sunshine.

 

cheers

 

Smudge

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I read all the ins and outs of council tax,regarding residential moorings last year...if the mooring is "exclusively for that boat,and only for that boats use"then you are liable to council tax.

 

I needed to clarify this information for a friend who was on a private mooring,they now pay council tax....a leisure mooring,"is not exclusively used for a particular boat" ie the owner of the moorings reserve the right to move you around as they see fit..no council tax regardless of all those who do live on leisure moorings.

 

I do not have the info with me,it was from a BW site..

 

so the person in question needs now move the boat to a offical leisure mooring

Edited by sheriff
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I read all the ins and outs of council tax,regarding residential moorings last year...if the mooring is "exclusively for that boat,and only for that boats use"then you are liable to council tax.

 

I needed to clarify this information for a friend who was on a private mooring,they now pay council tax....a leisure mooring,"is not exclusively used for a particular boat" ie the owner of the moorings reserve the right to move you around as they see fit..no council tax regardless of all those who do live on leisure moorings.

 

I do not have the info with me,it was from a BW site..

 

so the person in question needs now move the boat to a offical leisure mooring

 

Thanks, for that, Sheriff! I wondered why Oxford Agenda 21 Moorings (residential) did not attract Council Tax.

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Simple answer is that you get the marina to change your mooring with one that is non Res. Then that means you are not liable for CT on the new moorring and the other boat as it is non res already removes the CT liability on the old mooring.

 

The CT liability ony carries on if the mooring is unoccupied or if the new occupier is residential, if the new occupier is non res then CT liability dissappears.

Its all in that document in section 3.3

Edited by idleness
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Point the council to the government guidelines, and tell them that your not liable... Example 3 looks like your situation.

 

http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/Publications/Manuals/CouncilTaxManual/council_tax_man_pn/t-ct-man-pn7-appd.html

 

Say to the council "according to the Valuation Office Agency Council Tax Manual, I'm not liable for council tax, please explain why you think I am". - repeat until you get a decent answer even if you start to sound like a parrot, keep referring to this document in every communication with them.

 

Just seen FuzzyDuck also previously sent link to manual, use it, reference it in all communication with the council, and keep asking why when it says in reference 3.3, etc. of the council tax manual I'm not liable. Say you will enjoy the day in court because it says in plain English I'm not liable and your just going to look like idiots.

Edited by Robbo
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Point the council to the government guidelines, and tell them that your not liable... Example 3 looks like your situation.

 

http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/Publications/Manuals/CouncilTaxManual/council_tax_man_pn/t-ct-man-pn7-appd.html

 

Say to the council "according to the Valuation Office Agency Council Tax Manual, I'm not liable for council tax, please explain why you think I am". - repeat until you get a decent answer even if you start to sound like a parrot, keep referring to this document in every communication with them.

 

Just seen FuzzyDuck also previously sent link to manual, use it, reference it in all communication with the council, and keep asking why when it says in reference 3.3, etc. of the council tax manual I'm not liable. Say you will enjoy the day in court because it says in plain English I'm not liable and your just going to look like idiots.

 

to add to that there is only one defence (recognised by the law) for non payment of council tax and that is that it has not been demanded properly. if you ask for a proper explanation of why they are charging (demand) and they can't give it, then quite simply if the case went to court the council would have to prove they had made a proper demand for the council tax and as they haven't they would lose, simple as. I've won two cases like this with two different councils.

 

Usually the officials I've spoken to in the past have known what they are talking about and as soon as they understand your point they either point out why you are wrong or accept your case and usually want something in writing for thier records.

sounds like your friend is getting a jobsworth trying to intimidate her, always worth asking to speak to some one more senior in that cirumstance.

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Okies dokies guys and girls.

 

I thank you all for your input. The problem, as always with government documents, is deciphering them. I think you all have given enough info for me and, more importantly, the lady in question, to work with. I shall relay all your info to her and tell her to info, especially, her "friend" who told her she would have to pay council tax and also to the jobsworth in the council. Again thank you one and and all for your extremely useful inputs.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

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I thank you all for your input. The problem, as always with government documents, is deciphering them. I think you all have given enough info for me and, more importantly, the lady in question, to work with. I shall relay all your info to her and tell her to info, especially, her "friend" who told her she would have to pay council tax and also to the jobsworth in the council. Again thank you one and and all for your extremely useful inputs.

 

Please keep us upto date on what the council's proper explanation of why they are charging.

Edited by Robbo
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Please keep us upto date on what the council's proper explanation of why they are charging.

 

 

Yep I will but for the moment I have to try and explain everything to her and she then has to go back to the council and put her case forward. At the moment she has made an appointment with CAB with a view to getting a translation on that document that Fuzzy Duck kindly pointed me to.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

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Apart from the cost of council tax, the demanding of council tax could well establish the legal right to live there -a residential mooring. These usually sell for real money as in many places they are somewhat rare. In the London Area people sell moorings for residence that are not always residential.

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  • 4 months later...

To clarify our position on this, the owner of the vessel in question voluntarily chose to register for council tax on her mooring, an option that is down to the particular "moorer" depending upon their individual circumstances. I have advised the owner that the mooring she is now on is no longer residential as she is no longer "living aboard" and is now a leisure mooring or that we can move her boat (albeit by a foot) to a non-residential mooring; as such she will no longer eligible for council tax. Whilst she was residential, council tax may have been payable dependent on her particular circumstances. As the mooring is no longer residential, council tax is no longer payable. The status of the "mooring" is determined by the particular vessel that is moored on it. We have full planning permission from Selby Council for "full" residential capability on all moorings, but this is determined by the particular vessel that is moored on it at any particular time, not by the "vessel" or the "mooring". I also think the council are wrong in this instance and have advised the owner as such. (as an aside however, if the council were to deem the "mooring" on which this particular vessel is moored on exclusively as a residential mooring, the "owner" of this mooring at the time would be liable for the additional costs of council tax on top of the normal mooring fee). We would never condone the avoidance of paying council tax if applicable, but feel on this occasion the council are wrong.

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ISorry for not getting to this earlier as wanted said at the time I was moving to my new job when this went up.

 

Just to be clear... whether a mooring has planning permission, or is classed by the owner as residential, is immaterial. The material consideration is whether the mooring was occupied as a dwelling when it was entered onto the list of rateable dwellings.

 

Once the dwelling which lets not forget is the mooring, rather than the boat , is unoccupied, then on application to the council 50% is chargeable; assuming the full banded value was being paid for the. sole mooring. . We can presume from the fact that the departed moorer seems to be being pursued that that is the case. IIRC it can be zero rated for the first 26 weeks it''s unoccupied.

 

The period to challenge the mooring's entry onto the list is 26 weeks from the date of entry; an application can be made after that time but I don't know whether there are prescribed grounds upon which that application might be accepted.

 

No doubt the rest of the moorings are being paid for in the rates. The council has a discretion; within certain fetters, as to whether to charge CT or business rates for the mooring. I would suggest ,Mr Banks, that you seek advice as to how you might encourage them to exercise that discretion in your favour. Should people not approach this situation properly someone will likely end up in court.

Edited by Smelly
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Yep I will but for the moment I have to try and explain everything to her and she then has to go back to the council and put her case forward. At the moment she has made an appointment with CAB with a view to getting a translation on that document that Fuzzy Duck kindly pointed me to.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

It would be interesting to know what CAB advised. It's the best part of a decade since I used their information system, although I've access to it at the mo. My gut feeling is that these circumstances won't be covered with anything more than "seek specialist advice"

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Spade? Hole?

 

HMM okay why "spade? hole?" Who do you think is/are digging themselves into a hole. My friend, the council, the boatyard or me.

 

To Smelly. Unfortunately the lady in question does not react particularly quickly to things especially now that she has moved off her boat. I also think that as things seem to have gone quiet on the question of her council tax she is probably letting, apparently, sleeping dogs lie. I will, though, contact her and try to find out where she stands with this and how things are going.

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A cautionary tale... i have seen this happen twice, inspired by G&F's post.

 

Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are usually processed alongside each other. A claim for HB will generate a CTax account. Once a person claims HB there will be an ongoing CTax liability. That liability can pile up until the next time the authority spots the claimant whereupon they get a nasty surprise.

 

Whether that liability is lawful is an interesting question that I've not considered before.

 

Why do I post this? Council tax for boaters can be a bit of a creeping menace; best to keep an eye on it.

 

Sleeping dogs might still bite

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Why do I post this? Council tax for boaters can be a bit of a creeping menace; best to keep an eye on it.

 

Sleeping dogs might still bite

 

Yep I agree with that. The creeping menace bit, as well, this is what the worry is. As someone pointed out in an earlier post cash strapped councils could try it on with regard to this and then precedences could set which could have far reaching consequences.

 

At the moment the lady in question still owns the boat although she is no longer living on it. The boat has, also, been moved to a non residential mooring. I have yet to contact her about this issue but I will.

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We actually got housing benefit for the last 2 years , whilst we were on a B W mooring, as there were no facilities , ie water rubbish , we didnt have to pay council tax , in a marina , its different . We have now moved to a bungalow , and are loving it , but not the council tax bills lol.

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